if only i had known then what i did now! but i really want to make this work my husband and i and our kids. the "buyers, renters, and freeloaders book we bought 2 years ago was the first one recommended here and the first one i read. i am really hoping to get my husband to not just buy the books, but actually take the time to read them this time around. we have been here before. i see someone has linked our old stuff here from 2010. my husband also wrote here under the name of papasita(sp?) around that same time. i am rereading these articles again. i really hope i can get my husband to come on board and read and write so we can tackle this issue. he did seem receptive last night and called a family meeting for this morning. we all agree something has got to change with angry outbursts so we can deal with other issues peacably. on the top of our list- after AO- is family of origin issues- both his and mine- planning for kids work, education, and social lives- they miss out alot now, and still a few issues concerning the affairs for so long ago. i let some things go back then such as not giving me details or writing exposure letters about the first 3 affairs- we exposed the fourth because she lives in the same town as us and we had some friends in common. a lot has changed now. and it hasnt been easy. we have friends and family that gave mat, especially, cause he would talk about me and listen to them, alot of bad advice. i wish i could get him to take you all's advice. you guys rock. there is so much good information on the site and in dr. harley's books.

i know my husband would be happier without his angry ourbursts . i really want to try to get him to understand poja, too, so he understands that i am not going to try to force him into things he doesnt want to do. i want him to feel safe to tell me when he is upset and his needs are not being met. i feel like right now, he bottles things up and then explodes. also, i do feel like the yelling and meanness is strategy to avoid talking about things that are uncomfortable or difficult -like me telling him i needed him to try to meet my needs yesterday. while the angry outbursts are the major problem, they highlight our ability to have intimate conversations and radical honesty. i really hope he will read these things and write her. i will find out today. thanks for your responses!

is it wrong to say it is an emotional need for him to read here to get help for his angry outbursts? you all say it helped so much- i want this for us.

i guess it did feel like i needed someone to give me permission to put an end to this and "demand" that it stop. i'm glad youre all here.

It is not an emotional need. It is a lovebuster, plain and simple.

mamasita, I am utterly baffled that you did get married to this person, especially when it is obvious that nothing has changed. You have had access to Dr Harley's articles and books on what it takes to change a renter into a buyer, but you and your husband never followed that advice. Why?

Just getting married does not magically change one from a renter to a buyer, as you can see. In fact, Harley points out that once folks who live together do get married, the abuse intensifies. It looks like he is right.

Did you read his articles about getting married after shacking up? And I also strongly urge you to pack his bags and don't take him back until he successfully completes a good anger management program. You are not safe with him until he does that. I seriously doubt he cares enough to do that, though.

here

But it's his angry outbursts, and he needs to stop them, so I don't understand why he needed to call a family meeting about that. This is his job to do, not yours, not the family's.


What? I don't think you'll find anything like that from Dr. Harley. Dr. Harley says that this kind of dredging up the past is unproductive and is a distraction from the work that needs to be done in the present. In particular, angry husbands and wives love to take a detour into therapy for a few years to try to "resolve" issues of the past. It takes them off the hook and removes their responsibility to change TODAY.

Dr. Harley is very opposed to therapeutic approaches that try to resolve issues of the past. All that does is make you miserable, and make therapists rich!

Again, this is his change to make. You can't do it for him, so attempting to psychoanalyze why he does it is only going to make you miserable. It's not going to make him any more likely to do it.

mamasita, I don't think your strategy of responding to all of our posts is productive. Conversation on the internet can't help your marriage, DOING what this program recommends can help your marriage. We can help by explaining the program to you and persuading you to follow it.

Right now what the program recommends is that you draw a line and insist that his angry outbursts stop or he leave. What is your plan to make that happen?

Markos is right, mamasita. It is very notable that in 2 years on this forum absolutely nothing has changed for the better in your relationship. You have taken NONE of the advice this program offers.

In order to make meaningful changes, you can't talk a problem to death, you have to take action. Until you do that, nothing will change here.

One change he has got to make is that he has got to eliminate angry outbursts. If he does not make this change, you cannot stay with him. Things will not get better; they will only get worse.

There is more than enough information and help here on this site for him to tackle angry outbursts (without your help) if he is motivated.

It's time to pack his bags, Mamasita. Right now, he has no reason and no motivation for change.

Kick him out. He is not serious, and he has no reason to be. He knows that you will just take it.

He won't come here right now to improve your marriage. If he does show up, it will be just to appease you and get you to shut up for awhile. He's not serious.

TAKE ACTION. Nothing has a hope of changing until you do.

Yep. Just like last time.

well he read what you all had to say and he's leaving now. he said he'll get a hotel and he will be looking for apartments. he claims i have an angry outburst problem too. i did totally break down and melt down after him yelling at me and chasing me down to disrespect me. i am sure i disrespected him too. maybe i should be the one to move out

No. Let him leave. MAKE him leave.

Yes you need to stop your AO.
That's abuse.

You need to really rule out an affair.
Put a GPS on his vehicle.

Make sure he's alone at the hotel. Waywards will start fights to "rationalize" them leaving to hook up.

Good!

Don't listen to anything he said. He's angry and insane.

Requirements for coming home:
1. Complete an anger management program
2. He will take responsibility for his own anger, and will not blame you for his inability to control himself
3. He can prove to you that he is in control and will not lose his temper
4. He will commit to a program of recovery -- Marriage Builders.

Thats great! I would change the locks and not let him in until he completes an anger management class and gets himself under control.

You know who else would do that, Mel? Joyce Harley, I believe. I think it was "I Promise You" in which Dr. Harley states that part of the wedding promise can very reasonably stipulate that after ONE AO, it is agreed upon that the offending party would attend anger management classes.

I'm happy for you mama, you have established a new standard of behavior. A new expectation. And a new set of consequences for inexcusable behavior. And this is from someone who has battled AO's for as long as I can remember. I hope my bride-to-be has the good sense to show me the door if I ever slip up and lose control of myself to the extent that I damage the trust she has in me to protect her and not threaten her personal physical and emotional safety. I have a strong suspicion she will: one time a couple months ago I lost my patience and DJ'd a quick response at her (something about my son)...anyway, she made it very clear that she would not be talked to like that. It's one of the reason's I'm so madly in love with her. She holds me to the same standard that I would like to hold myself, and she's strong enough to stand by it. It's a very endearing quality.

opt