And, the sooner the better.
Waiting only causes further damage. Big time.

And to any other betrayed reading along .........

Keep your word.
Every word you say must be important and valid.
If the wayward knows you don't mean what you say .... YOU lose credibility. The wayward knows you are "flexible".
Never be flexible. Be firm.
Stick to your guns.
Think before you speak.
Speak the absolute truth.
Never make threats or issue ultimatums you cannot deliver.
After you have lost your temper, you must recognize you have lost control.
ASAP learn super-human self control. This scares the holy-sheet out of waywards. The wayward wants you to be frightened, out of control.
The wayward wants you to be insecure and timid and waffling.

And made actual marriage recovery THAT much harder.


Remember this .... followers of this thread ... manipulators almost always try to make YOU feel guilty for standing up for yourself. Above is an excellent example of guilt driven manipulation.


Manipulators want YOU to doubt your sanity. How? By claiming you are out of touch with reality. Common theme with manipulators.


More guilt.


EGG ZAK LEE !!

I hope this thread gets a lot of "traffic".

Al, you have no idea how many others will be helped with what you've shared.

I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Also to add to Pep's excellent advice here's what Dr. H says about polygraphs.

Radio clip on polygraphs
Segment #2

Thank YOU. Your words throughout this have been invaluable.

I wanted to point out one other thing: throughout those seven weeks of abuse, I BELIEVED HIM. I thought he really just didn't 'get it'. I thought I really was confusing him and hurting his feelings. I believed he really didn't want to do the poly for reasons OTHER than the fact that he was STILL LYING.

I am not a stupid woman. But I was totally manipulated. I assumed he was coming from a place of honesty about his emotions, instead of recognizing the attacks as a tactical move. I wanted to believe he was DIFFERENT than the self-serving waywards you read described. I wanted to believe purity of motive. My 'want-to-believe' contributed to this mess as much as his 'cover-my-[censored]'.

It wasn't until the end when I drew that line that I SAW the insane things he wa saying for what they were. When I could SEE the motive. When I stopped letting him talk me in circles.

He did not take me seriously at all until I said you know what...I don't believe for a SECOND that ANYBODY would think I was crazy for requiring a polygraph after what you've done. The only thing people might think I'm crazy for is actually giving you another shot. He did not take me seriously until I said...YOU have choices. I'm not going to try to convince you and I'm not changing my mind. You get to choose. Your call. My way or the highway. TOTALLY UP TO YOU.
He didn't respect someone he could manipulate.

And just like you said...when I got calm an stopped playing those games...I scared the ever-living crap out of him. HE said that so many times in those last few pre-poly days.

Anyway. One more piece of the puzzle.

AI, am so glad to hear from you.

yes, you have a lot of hard work ahead, for a long time. but you have been through the war, dear girl. the work ahead IS hard, but building a new M is satisfying work.

there will still be times when he falters, when he screws up, and you'll wonder if it's worth it. that's normal. you will screw up too. that's ok. rome wasn't built in a day and all that.

just remember, now you are at week one from your real DD (poly day). you have learned that you have an amazing well of inner strength, and you will be ok.

MB is what's going to get you both through to the other side. i wish you both the best now that you are finally in a place where you can start again. don't forget to take care of yourself.

Thank you so much Letty.

This has been a nightmare beyond imagining. But now we know so much more and have the tools to heal and grow. We're very young...we have things going for us in many ways...we have time and sunshine and beautiful children. I have hope.

And above all else, I finally know what I'm capable of and what I won't tolerate ever again. I know that I can make my own life good regardless.

You've been a great support and I really admire your strength. Thanks again.

Yeppers!

Here is a link to my ancient history ~~~> Pep's story in short form

The following is posted for the lurkers reading along:

When the adulterous spouse says something akin to "I'll do anything you say in order to stay." make sure you require they do the ONE THING that they dread the most.

If you hear "I'll do anything but that" .... it's going to be "my way or the highway". Especially if you've been gas-lighted about the adulterous affair(s).

Thanks for linking your story! I'd never read it before. You rock. Your strength and ability to stand up for yourself are very inspiring.

I'll add another bit of advice for any followers/lurkers: investigate to the FULL extent you possibly can BEFORE you confront/give away that you're onto your wayward. Get hard info and as many facts as you can. Try to avoid giving them the chance to lie to/gaslight you.

TRT knew I was checking our phone records. It gave him the chance to sanitize his email accounts and cell phone before he 'confessed' to an EA, told me he'd be completely honest, and 'volunteered' his email passwords and phone lock code. Talk about the downplay of the century.

Investigate. Be stealthy. Smile. Gather info.
When you're under the attack of infidelity, this is war.
You can't trust them. Look for hard proof first and spare yourself some lies.

Incredibly empowering feeling, is it not?

Puts bricks in a waywards pants, too!

Thank you so much AI for your very thoughtful and caring response. I can actually tell you are feeling your words to me. Infidelity, lies, their ways really hurt don't they? That is universal. I appreciate yours and Pepperbands reponses.

It is so very difficult to not feel guilty. I have nothing to really be guilty about, but yet I feel guilty!! In his eyes, I am always doing or saying something wrong or should have done something different. That and me living with him having never asked for forgiveness, and not wanting a marriage. Just cohabitation. I am a maid, cook and babysitter.

Anyway, thank you so much for your responses and for sharing your story with us.

Yes it is!

You can't count on a partner who ripped your life to shreds until they show some serious change and commitment. But you can count on yourself to hold true even in the deepest pit. It is hard. But it feels good to take responsibility for your own life and your own behaviour and your own choices...REGARDLESS of theirs.

Little, after I replied to your post I went and found your thread from last year. Has anything changed? What's your plan?

You don't have to live like that. You have choices.
Make them. Act.

Yes, the pain and devastation of infidelity and emotional abuse are universal. Choosing to continue to live with it is not.

What do YOU want to do?

amen, sister.

Carved in stone.

(added to carrot/stick thread)

Little, I also want to suggest you look into Patricia Evans's books on verbally abusive relationships.

You can't recover from infidelity with a person who is still your abuser.

This is my first battle as well. That's becoming more and more clear to me as the days go by.

It's very very confusing and painful and guilt-inducing to be told your feelings aren't significant. It's devaluing to have your agony ignored or made out to be less than it is.

As hard as it is, maybe you should back-burner the infidelity. Read and read and read. If he's not willing or able to stop abusing you, you're better off by yourself so you can heal.

Life in the face of infidelity is so surreal and strange sometimes.

The world looks different. The world is different.

What you KNEW (thought you knew) and what you now KNOW are so very different.

Sometimes I feel like a testament to how NOT to go about surviving an affair.
TRT and I did everything SO WRONG.
Now we have so much MORE to figure out and survive.

People who have been following along with this crazy, oft-misguided journey: we're doing okay. Making it through one day at a time. Trying to figure it all out and work a plan.

Lurkers who might be reading this: LISTEN. Listen to what you read here and what people tell you. It's SO MUCH HARDER and infinitely more complicated when you guck it all up with denial and missteps and thinking surely your situation must be DIFFERENT.

I would start here. Right now it's all about being negative, as illustrated by the remark below. Believe me, I know it's tough and I understand the negative thoughts (BTDT), but why not work at trying to make it more positive?

How about trying to turn this quote into, "Now we have so much MORE to figure out and THRIVE."

Thanks.

Working on the positive thinking. It's hard now in that early stage where almost everything is just a sea of pain.

I haven't been feeling nearly as negative as I feel CONFUSED.
Sort of a 'WOW...I didn't follow this plan and it blew up in my face. Where do I pick up now that we made this mess...?' kind of thing.

Recovery is much harder and messier when you've muddled around in plan C so long. The work seems so immense sometimes. The trauma is sickening in its scope.

But every day we can get up and try to make something good out of the day.
And every little step is still a step.

Well, AI, you've shown such tremendous strength. Where do you think that you, personally, weren't following the plan? By not entering plan B earlier?

Here's the thing...having read both you and TRT's threads in their entirety, from the beginning, I really haven't seen what YOU, AI, PERSONALLY did wrong. I've seen a LOT that TRT did wrong, in dragging out his dishonesty, all of his angry outbursts, gaslighting, etc.

I would be a lot more happy with your recovery if HE was posting here about how he'd done these things wrong and what just compensation he can offer you for all the pain he's caused. Where is he? He needs to take the lead on recovery now...he needs to heal you. The heavy lifting should still be on his end, because remember, you still can decide, any day, that what he's done is too much, or that he's not fully committed to being honest, meeting your needs, and caring for you, and you can end it. That's his reality, not yours.

So...TRT needs to get his behind back on the MB forum and take responsibility. Pronto. And you should go take a bubble bath where he delivers you a mint julep. Okay, maybe 4am isn't the best time for that...but you get me point hopefully, the hard work should not be on you, your burden should have lifted, and as much as TRT dragged you through hell, and was dishonest for so long, he needs to do the work now, to continue to prove himself to you, and you need to still remain detached enough from recovery to be evaluating whether your health and wellbeing can be safe in this relationship.