Because he likes them and thinks I should, too. Also, because he thinks we don't have enough friends so spending time with ones I don't care much for is better than not spending time with friends in his mind.

How are you going to draw the line?

Right now, he's going to do whatever he wants because he knows he can.

Penni, please listen to Susie and to Prisca. Susie is right; this is hard to watch.

You should not be enthusiastic about even negotiating a modification to Extraordinary Precautions. Therefore, by the POJA, negotiation should not even occur on this subject.

And no baloney about how scared he is to POJA because of SDs and DJs. There don't need to be any DJs for him to STOP PUSHING THE BOUNDARIES and KNOCK OFF THIS CRAP THAT IS HURTFUL AND OFFENSIVE TO YOU.

Your marriage COULD be easily repaired, IF he were to put some work into it.

But he's not interested in that, is he Penni?

Any time someone posts in MB101 and tries to skirt over the fact that there was an A that was swept under the rug it concerns me that there is denial going on.

Talking on MB101 about your lovebusters & POJA for the last 1.5+ years when your WH won't even implement basic EPs?

Telling us that you wish we could hear your H's perspective on POJA etc when he is texting with other women and basically gaslights you when you ask him to stop?

Penni, you are in denial here!

But you should not capitulate and do things you are not enthusiastic about.

Dr. Harley says you shouldn't have outside recreational activities until you are following the policy of undivided attention and are each other's favorite recreational companion. Neither of these is true yet, so you simply say "I'm not going on these double dates."

Then follow up with the "listen, buster" quote from Dr. Harley that Prisca posted.

He is not afraid to POJA, and he does not need to post here for us to understand.

He is unwilling to follow the policy of joint agreement because he does not care about you and does not want to have to take your feelings into account. It's as simple as that.

The policy of joint agreement is not some arbitrary rule Dr. Harley made up. It's what caring husbands and wives do for each other. When Dr. Harley studied successful, caring marriages where romantic love was sustained, he found that this was the way they lived.

The Policy of Joint Agreement is simply a reminder or formula to help us be caring and thoughtful even when our instincts and emotions are prompting us to do otherwise. We can develop the habit of checking our actions against the POJA to find out if we are being thoughtful for not. "Caring" and "thoughtful" actions follow the POJA, and actions that do not meet the policy are thoughtless and uncaring.

No matter what he could say if he posted here, the fact remains that if he wants to care about you, this is how to do it: KNOCK IT OFF. He may wish things were different, he may wish it didn't require as much of him, but this is what "care" means.

He wants things to improve but he seems to frame the problems as 100% my fault. Basically, if I could stop being upset about things he does, everything would be fine. When we talked to Steve Harley, Steve said to him, "The only way I can think of for that to happen is for your wife to love you less, is that what you want?" That really hit home with my H in the moment but since then I have tried to bring that up and he gas lights me.

Sometimes I think his difficulty in admitting he is part of the problem is linked to his extreme need for admiration (is that a DJ?). He really doesn't like to look bad or admit faults.

It's hard to try to convince your husband that he is at least half of the problem without DJing the heck out of him. If I could get him to do the online program or talk to Steve, it would be a lot easier.

As part of plan A, I am trying to lose some weight and get back in shape. I have gained about 10 pounds since we got married and he doesn't seem to be as attracted to me (but our sex life is still good). I think physical attractiveness is probably his 2nd highest EN.

This is good, thanks Prisca!

Penni, this is extremely typical for husbands. Most husbands mistakenly think the problem is that their wife should just feel different.

The insight of Marriage Builders is that husbands and wives cause each other's feelings. If he wants you to feel different, he shouldn't just tell you to do so, he should change what he is doing.

He's not willing to do that, so you'll never feel any better.

Even after 2 1/2 years of marriage builders, I still frequently fall into thinking "My wife should feel different, the problem is she is seeing this wrong, etc."

Then he's not really interested in putting any effort into making your marriage work.

I'm not in denial, I see that there is a big problem but I also feel this heavy weight to exhaust myself trying to fix it before considering divorce.

Also, he meets my top ENs well so that makes it more difficult for me to throw my hands up and leave.

The difference, Markos, is that you're willing to change your thinking. You're willing to protect your marriage.

No amount of practicing Marriage Builders principles on your end will win your husband over to practicing these principles. Dr. Harley encourages husbands to push and push for this but says that wives have little success doing so. They can't take a "Love Dare" style approach where they win their husbands over and the husbands suddenly miraculously become willing to follow the principles of care.

So he encourages wives to try for 3-4 weeks and then to separate for their own health and sanity, instead of being gaslit and abused for years. Women who stick around for that kind of thing suffer all kinds of problems including compromised immune systems and post traumatic stress disorder.

And when I don't, my wife lays it on the line and says "Listen, Buster, if you love me and want me to love you, this behavior is not going to work."

I think that's it - if I could just get him to see this, things would start getting better.

It's been 1.5+ years. Dr. Harley advises 3-4 weeks.

From Page 1 of this thread (emphasis mine):




See how smart Mel is? She nailed this on Page 1. And interestingly enough, you tried to skim over the point and never answered the question and now we see why, because your H never agreed to give up opposite sex friendships and I think you know that he never will.

You keep making excuses for your H and muddying the waters by talking about your own lovebusters and why your H is reluctant to POJA.

A WS who will not implement basic EPs after having an affair is not going to follow the rest of the program. This is no accident, Penni.

We do you no favors by allowing you to continue in denial...

It works, too. You are here posting that you have made him afraid to POJA by your own mistakes, instead of there following Dr. Harley's advice and telling him that you will not continue to tolerate this.

You're not going to be able to get him to see this, though. He's NOT WILLING to see it. He has no reason to.

It's been 1.5+ years. He's not going to see it without some drastic steps from you.