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{{{{{{{ai}}}}}}
it's time to think about plan b. i'm so sorry.
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AI, so sorry about what you continue to go through. I agree that you need to go into plan B...I just don't think TRT really has what it takes to do this honesty long term, and part of him knows it. He can't do honestly, let alone care or POJA. Has he been lovebusting as well?
I know that feeling of doubting everything that you once took for true, like that marriage could be happy or successful. I'm kind of back there myself. I think you should try and protect yourself from experiences that will make you uncomfortable like that...with little kids, its usually easy to find an excuse (oh, johnny has the sniffles) to bow out of things gracefully. Because there always is something!
TRT should be on here in his spare time...instead, he's not really putting in the work. But it's good that you are here...where you need to be, and getting support. So...plan? What do you need to do next?
Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
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Thank you all.
I know this was a BIG DEAL. I know it is a BAD SIGN.
Prisca, you're absolutely right, I have NO WAY of knowing if what he was actually covering was porn, or something else like breaking no contact. His defensiveness and lack of a remorseful attitude speaks volumes too. He SAYS it was terrible and wrong and he'll never do it again, but that's not at ALL the attitude he's projecting.
This sucks beyond belief, and his seeming lack of awareness about how bad it is, is even worse.
We had agreed going into recovery that he's doing another polygraph in the near future to confirm that there's been no contact etc. Other than that I don't know my plan right now. I have to think clearly...
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Also, in regard to his not posting here - it's another EP that he continue to post at least weekly. As you can see that's not happening, and he's justifying it by saying he's doing 'more important' things.
He's been doing a lot of stuff around the house, a lot of stuff with the kids, spending time with me. That's all good and important.
But it seems like the easiest thing to shrug off is the actual WORK of recovery.
That sucks too.
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What was the specified sanction ("punishment" is politically incorrect) that was put in place for his looking at porn?
What was the specified sanction for his not posting here?
"AI will be disappointed and hurt" is not a sanction. We know he doesn't care about that. "It will go into the PlanA/B/D hopper for processing," is not a sanction as it's too nebulous.
He is not worried enough to follow the "agreements" you thought were in place, and he was laughing at, as they were made.
He has failed in two areas. What do you have the fortitude to do about it? Do you have the courage to risk ending your marriage in the pursuit of saving it?
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So, after a couple of really good days, I caught TRT breaking an EP. I was looking at his phone and saw he'd deleted the Internet history. BAD.
I casually said "Hey, it looks like you deleted your browser history?"
And he made up a complex lie about his phone crashing while he wa reading on the Internet and him losing all his info.
I didn't freak out but I knew he was lying. I told him it seems extremely far-fetched that an iPhone would crash and lose nothing EXCEPT the Internet history, and if by some chance that DID happen, it seems very unlikely he would fail to mention it to me, knowing that deleting the history is breaking an EP and would be a problem. And that if there was something else going on here, I'd appreciate him telling me.
He stuck to his story for a while, then finally admitted he deleted the history to hide the fact that he'd been looking at porn (ANOTHER broken EP).
These are relatively small things in the grand scheme, and I know he thinks I shouldn't be as upset as I am. But the fact is, HE LIED. He was willing to break EPs and lie to my face while I'm still reeling from the mountain of BIG lies. He's still willing to do whatever he feels like and lie about it, and protect himself at my expense. And he did it while he was being REALLY good to me and I thought he was really getting this and starting to understand what he's put me through.
That KILLS me.
On top of that, today I had to go to a wedding shower. It was strange. Hard. Lots of mixed feelings and triggers. Feeling so broken and violated while watching people who are in a shiny happy phase.
And then this was really weird to discover, but I feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable around women I don't know well right now. I kept feeling kind of...hostile. There was this little part of me wondering...would YOU sleep with a married man?
It was an UGLY feeling, and it made me ashamed. The trust I have in humanity is so shaky and bad. I feel so damaged.
Sorry for the vent-fest. Going for radical honesty. What are the consequences for breaking one of his EPs? Plan B? Divorce?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Can you guys give me some examples of sanctions/consequences for breaking EPs?
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Can you guys give me some examples of sanctions/consequences for breaking EPs? Have you seen this? HerPapaBear's EPs
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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With your WH's history, Plan B would be the minimum. Other than that Plan D.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Can you guys give me some examples of sanctions/consequences for breaking EPs? Plan B. (Prisca, on Markos' account)
Last edited by markos; 07/07/12 10:07 PM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Possible sanctions would be best geared toward whatever TRT would hate the most. (There's an old joke about an employee asking to take time off without pay, being declined, verbally berating the supervisor, and being suspended - which was the time off without pay he wanted!) "Plan B" is always a possibility, but once you've fired that bullet, what next?
Having him leave the house for a week, (staying with your parents?), how would that be? Selling his golf clubs? His car, with you pocketing the money in trust (outside of any future divorce settlement)?
When it comes down to it, though, TRT doesn't care enough about SAVING his marriage to stop doing the things that are DESTROYING his marriage. He does not fear you, and your marital "commitment to excellence". He must be retrained.
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Hey there AI, I feel for you! I would definately trust those on here who can more accurately read TRT's actions. You are too close to it. He really has no wiggle room, yet he is taking liberties at your expense!! Destructive ones at that!!!
You asked if it were worth chancing the end of yourt marriage by holding him accountabe, and I say yes it is. Plan B him. You set the bar for what you demand/need in your life. He will either rise to it or he won't.
If he rises to your demands, great, that is what he has to do anyway. If he doesn't want to work that hard or give up behaviors that are destroying you/your marriage, then he won't, and you will be that much closer to removing this type of treatment from your life. Do you want to live like this?
If he doesn't care enough/have what it takes to accept complete responsibility for his actions and make the changes necessary to save your marriage, would you want to remain in it?
Plan B him. Make him work for it - HARD!!! It is going to take a while. Have patience. Make sure you don't let him come home too quickly - before he has done all the work.
Steve Harvey (the comedien) wrote a book for his daughter (don't remember the name.) I saw an interview where he said something to the effect of: Set your standards and expectations high. A man who truly respects you and values YOU will rise to those expectations and standards. You don't want the ones who won't.
Your husband will only change as little as you require him to change. These cnanges are not arbitrary, they are mandatory. Don't let him get away with pretening, half changing, etc...
YOU DESERVE BETTER!!!
Last edited by Littlebit3; 07/07/12 10:49 PM.
BS Me 47,WH 49
DS's x3 17, 10, 7
Multiple D-Days
No disclosure by WH. No EP's, no transparency, no guilt or remorse either.
Plan C DOES NOT WORK!
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Other than that I don't know my plan right now. I have to think clearly... You need to at least be preparing for Plan B right now, so you can go to it at a moments notice.
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Here you go and all the links are in the thread. How To Plan B Properly
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Has he been lovebusting as well? This is a very good question. Is trt still having angry outbursts? Is he ever saying anything disrespectful, judgmental, manipulative? Ever telling you what you should do or how you should feel? Is he still throwing out that disrespectful crap about how recovery is going to fail and it will be your fault for not being on board? That mess stinks to high heaven and is incredibly manipulative and judgmental. Dr. Harley would tell a wife of an abusive husband to separate and go to Plan B if he does not stop, never mind whether he had an affair or not. This kind of environment is not safe for a woman to live in.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Plan C is confusion...no plan aka Plan Hope
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Also, in regard to his not posting here - it's another EP that he continue to post at least weekly. As you can see that's not happening, and he's justifying it by saying he's doing 'more important' things.
He's been doing a lot of stuff around the house, a lot of stuff with the kids, spending time with me. That's all good and important.
But it seems like the easiest thing to shrug off is the actual WORK of recovery.
That sucks too. AI, What you will find is that you cannot continue to live like this. It will suck the life right out of you. This is what Plan B is designed for, and I think Dr. Harley would strongly advise you to start planning for a separation, in case you need to implement one. Plan B is a complete "no contact" scenario, where, for the sake of your mental health, you do not see or talk to your husband until he is willing to get on board with recovery. This has the effect of preventing him from experiencing any love bank withdrawals from you, but more importantly, PROTECTING YOU FROM LOVE BANK WITHDRAWALS FROM HIM. Dr. Harley has seen women stick it out far longer than they should have, and their stamina is just not enough to take it and they wind up with chronic fatigue syndrome, immune system disorders, post traumatic stress disorder, all sorts of physical and psychological problems. Plan B is not a club to beat him up and make him do right; it is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that it is dangerous to your health and sanity to remain in a situation where you are neglected and abused. He may or may not respond by manning up and starting to do what it takes, but the important thing is that you be protected.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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His phone needs to be flushed or smashed tonight. Any device he has in the future needs to email you a full report of every website he visits. Or else he needs to not have a phone.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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We have seen this story of the phone history being erased before. I'm sure we have seen it multiple times; I hesitate to bring it up, because I don't want to bring up unpleasant memories for the betrayed wife involved, but last year we had exactly such a situation. "Formerly" wayward husband (married to an excellent Marriage Builders poster, btw!) was hiding stuff on his phone and erasing stuff. Several excuses came out, then finally it emerged that he had a relationship with a woman he worked with. Then it came out that the relationship was more than just that, he had been physically involved with her. He was also a serial adulterer, and he had kept going the whole time through "recovery" with relationships at work and otherwise! He showed up on the board and tried to snow us, but thank God the sound minds here saw through him. Unfortunately he never did straighten out, and he went through several more relationships after that.  But his wife got herself protected from his abuse and doesn't have to live with it any more!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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For the wayward I am remembering with phone issues, Marriage Builders was a tool he could use to throw his wife a bone every so often and keep her satisfied so that she would not leave him, while he continued to live an unrepentantly wayward lifestyle.
The wayward mindset: make enough love bank deposits to balance out the withdrawals from abuse and independent behaviors you aren't willing to give up or change.
The Marriage Builders mindset: ELIMINATE love busters (withdrawals) and make MASSIVE love bank deposits EVERY DAY.
Last edited by markos; 07/07/12 11:38 PM.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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