Here are some excellent reads.

BSs...............just be still
Be the lighthouse...for those feeling tossed to the waves

I am so sick of his bs I cant stand it. I really am sick of the broken promises. I will be speaking to my mom about helping me get into a condo.

You're beginning to slip into an error that eventually comes back to bite most BS newbies.

When you get him to agree to an EP from this date forward, put each EP IN WRITING with ATTACHED SANCTIONS for breaking it.

EP: WS will set up a joint FB account with LL77, by 01 August 2012, and no solo FB account ever again.

Sanction for violation: WS will move out of the marital bedroom, sleeping in the basement until LL77 feels safe for his return.

Until every EP is structured that way, his fulltime goal will be to get around every one. You're lucky; you haven't lost much time before "genius boy" showed you his true recovery "colors". (Hint: Black, like NG's mood!)

Exactly!!

What EP's did you give him?

What were your conditions if he broke an EP? Plan B is the next step.

The MB sanction is Plan B.

I wouldn't try to set levels of consequences. He breaks any EP or boundary, and it's immediately NC with you.

Well here I sit in our old neighborhood. Very peaceful. He followed me. I let it out. His cruelty since D day. His rude remarks about my weight only to find the POSOW is fatter than me and actually not very attractive. Thats mean. He begged me back but we had a blowout because of his broken promise about joint fb.

My response would have been "that's because I am accusing you, sweetheart"

That statement was geared toward gaslighting you into being meek.



I agree. No messing about.



Dont get angry! There's no need. Draw your line, stating it calmly. No wiggle room no gaslighting, no anger.

Why are you planning to move out? Can't you just kick him out?

The MB sanction is Plan B.

Neak, (and others) that is absolutely the right and only answer for major violations , like calling the AP, etc. (And maybe setting up a subsequent private F/B account would be such a major violation, I don't know.)

But we're talking about helping BSs effect change in a WS's entire lifestyle of secrecy and stealth. There will be omissions of EPs that are less than disastrous, because of the mechanics of learned human behavior.

EP: WS will come home from work immediately, unless intermediate stops were previously cleared with BS.

Instance: Driving home, WS remembers he needs a doohickey to repair BW's automatic foot-massager. He stops at the hardware store, makes the purchase and continues home. BW sees him installing the part, knows there to have been an EP violation, and initiates Plan B.

Sorry, bad implementation.

It would be beyond belief that every (any?) WS could be handed a list of twenty EPs and from Day 1 batted 1.000 on them. And for those FBSs who want to scream "My FWS did!", I'll gently suggest the fact was you never learned of the initial slips, or slyly chose to, and have now forgotten that you did, ignore the minor ones. (Don't worry, we won't hold that against you.)

The problem is the "finality" of Plan B is enough of a deterrent to prevent the BS from taking ANY action on early EP screw-ups, and without gradations, no iterative progress will be made. (Study educational theory, esp "buttressed learning" for more info.) "All or nothing" at start-up is as unfair a burden on the BS as it would be an impossibility on the WS.

How is Facebook involved? Does he have a private acct?
Do you have the password?
If Facebook is a problem get rid of it.

I hate Facebook. There are probably 10 million affairs on Facebook this morning
There is a reason he would not want to get rid of it or have a joint acct.

But it is impossible for a BS to effect change in a WS's lifestyle. That is a job for the WS to do. You are advocating a stance of the BS trying to do the WS's work for them, a serious mistake lots of BS's make, something we need to advise them away from. In the case of addiction this is usually called codependency.

Lisa,

Please read this.
How The Co-Dependency Movement is Ruining Marriages

If you think Dr. Harley's plans have a problem and need to be modified, then I think you need to email Dr. Harley, or at least start a new thread here to talk about it separately, rather than hijacking the threads of other people and posting advice that conflicts with Dr. Harley's plans.

Posters don't come here for NeverGuessed's opinion or markos's opinion, after all. They come here to find advice using the principles of the author of His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair: Dr. Harley.

Plan B isn't final at all.

It is only final if the WS refuses to accept responsibility or behave in a way which is serious.

The BS can't effect positive change, they can only say 'get out' to a WS who won't.

One of the biggest obstacles we have with persuading BSs it's time for Plan B is that they believe it is a final dead end to the marriage when it isn't!

The WS, (if serious) need only communicate their repentant actions through the IM and Plan B goes away.

If I was a WS and placed in Plan B, I'd contact the IM and say 'What do I need to do?' Then I'd do it.

BS to effect change in a WS's lifestyle.

Horrors! You're right! My choice of word was imprecise! You should be PROUD of that discovery!

The word "effect" should have been "incent" or "guide".

Plan A and Plan B are NOTHING if not tactics to incent the WS to effect the change in their own behavior.

Here are the rest of my posts since this one on this thread, in case you missed any while tracking my participation, my friend:

Re: exposing lunch dates In Recovery 07/11/12 10:20 AM
Re: Wife's Affair - Question/support for newbie Surviving an Affair 07/11/12 10:06 AM
Re: Loveheraaf thread: buddy with a wayward wife Surviving an Affair 07/11/12 07:56 AM

That is Plan A. Plan A is time limited for a reason. If the WS still needs his mouth wiping by mommy after Plan A time is up, then they need to get out, and grow up in the big bad world all by themselves.

If I was a WS and placed in Plan B, I'd contact the IM and say 'What do I need to do?' Then I'd do it.

You were never a WS with the psychology and experience that that entails. The HUGE majority of WSs will not. I seem to remember a 10% number re-emerging from Plan B, attributed to Dr. H.. Okay, haven't done the math, but...

Recently, can we point to many? Any? (And I mean true Plan B with IM, NC, etc.)

Can you show me this 10% figure? I have never heard that in all the years I have been here. And I agree with indie, the time to get n board is in plan a. If the WS doesn't do that, then plan b is warranted.

The big problem with having consequences such as moving the WS out of the marital bedroom, is that it is a punishment rather than a natural consequence. You can't punish a wayward into becoming a whole new person who values fidelity and willingly embraces EP's.

One minor violation wouldn't necessarily mean Plan B. It would most definitely mean the BS would confront the WS firmly, making clear that what the WS just did was not part of a M that the BS is willing to be a part of, and that it must change immediately.

A WS who is serious will be teachable. They will be eager to do more for their BS, and will be thankful that the BS cared enough to confront them in this way. A WS with an attitude like that can be worked with, and doesn't need Plan B implemented as part of their learning process unless there's a major breach.

A WS who is chafing at the "restrictions", likening their BS to a parole officer, and trying to see how close they can come to their limits without falling over the edge, isn't serious and will almost certainly need Plan B before they are. When the BS uses loving confrontation as in the above scenario, they may at first give in, but their core attitude of resentment and entitlement soon comes through. As soon as it's clear that that's the overall trend, and not just a bad day or two, it's time to go to Plan B, even if there hasn't been an egregious breach yet.

Where resentment and entitlement march, that egregious breach is soon to follow.

If many WSs are not responding to Plan B - then that is many BSs saved from a FR with someone who is not serious.

Dr H is very clear that it should be only a three week or six month Plan A depending on gender then Plan B them unless they are serious about committing to recovery.

He is forthright that to Plan B is risky. Separation is risky because it may become permanent.

But it is riskier not to.

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