pepperband,
My husband and I have been spending quality time (no tv) after the kids go to bed. We started doing puzzles and we take turns reading harleys books out loud. We also have date night every other week. Our 3rd date night will be this saturday. By doing these things, we have definately reconnected with each other. We have realized that it is vital for us to have our time.
As to our intimacy, it is the best it has ever been. I know this sounds crazy, but other than the huge issue we are dealing with, i feel the happiest i have ever been in our marriage. We are closer than ever. It is just so hard to have the bad days. I am realistic and know that we will have those days. I just want to be better prepared for when they do happen and know how to help my husband through those times.

CM, that is great, but I would step this WAY UP. One date night every other week is NOT even close to what it will take. Quality undivided attention time is spent away from the home at a time of the day when you are at your best and most energetic. UA time is much better when you dress up and GO OUT. It is not quality UA time when you spend it at home at a time of the day when you are most exhausted and are not dressed up. It is too easy to put off UA time when you can be easily distracted by chores, phone calls or crying children.

Harley recommends FOUR date nights a week in blocks of 4 hours. Your best friend about now should be a list of babysitters you can call to come watch the kids.

I would use the UA time worksheet that is in the back of the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook. Tear it out and make copies. Set down once a week and schedule out your time for the next week. Time that is scheduled is much harder to put off.

At first, most couples REFUSE to do this [because they are in the habit of putting their marriage LAST and because they are not in love] but once you start doing it, you get so excited about your dates that you look forward to them all day. I know I do!

This step will make the fastest, most dramatic change in your marriage. The program does not work without it. It takes 15 hours to MAINTAIN romantic love and 20+ hours to CREATE.

I understand. Applebee's was a trigger for my FWH and me. We had to drive by them fairly regularly. We drive by Applebee's now without a second thought. It's something you will acquire as you move through recovery. Things that meant a lot during the affair will pale as you rebuild your marriage.

Understand, though, that you may never be able to be comfortable actually eating in those places again. We no longer eat or drink at Applebee's. That's part of recovery. And it's okay. You'll live without having a Wendy's burger, right?

i am lost and floundering. my husband pulled the get out of marriage card tonight and i am scared. he is withdrawing from me because he feels i am not driving the train to recovery. he feels i need to be more proactive. i thought we are in recovery. not sure when a couple are considered to be officially in recovery? all the eps are in place. i am being transparent. working hard on fulfilling his emotional needs. (we agreed that my needs are not important at this point). i need to step up my game and need the veterans help. another issue is that is seems that we are in a depression circle. he gets depressed then i get depressed. round and round it goes. is that normal?

You can't create a romantic, mutually satisfying marriage if he is not meeting your needs. And I suspect that he very much needs and wants you to be in love with him, doesn't he?

You won't feel in love with him if that does not happen.

Did you follow my advice and start scheduling 20+ hours of undivided attention time so you can restore the romantic love to your marriage?

What are his exact complaints?

ml, i am very much in love with my husband. actually more than i ever have been. it is the other way around, he says he is not in love with me. plan A worked for him. we are trying hard to schedule 20 hours. i wanted a date night this weekend with him and he suggested to move it next week. i agreed. it is hard for us to have a date night every weekend due to baby sitting issues but we are working on that. we probably get about 15 hours a week which i agree is not enough for him to fall back in love with me.

Please read.
The critical importance of UA

bh, his complaint has been not enough affirmation. i stepped up my game on that. dont think that is an issue anymore. he thinks i do not have a plan. i think i do but what i think doesnt matter. what he thinks is what matters. another complaint is he thinks i should be more agressive in having him fill out another en questionnaire. he said he wants me to physically give him the questionnaire and not just ask him to when he gets time.

bh, another complaint is that he asked me a couple days ago to post on marriage builders. and i hadnt done that yet.

Does he believe that you are in love with him? I find it very, very odd that you are in love with him since a) you were detached enough to have an affair and b) he does not meet any of your needs and c) you certainly don't spend enough time together to even SUSTAIN romantic love. That is the NORM after an affair.

Is that really honest to say you are in love with him? Do you really mean that you have a caring love for him? Versus a romantic love...

It sounds to me like he doesn't FEEL like you love him and there is a reason he doesn't feel it. Because you are NOT in love with him. if you don't admit the problem it can't be addressed and fixed.

here

ml, i just asked my husband if he believes that i am in love with him. he said sometimes he has his doubts. that he is not sure what he can or can't believe. i didnt realize he felt that way. i do really believe that i am in love with him. he has pretty much stopped his love busting which was what killed my love for him through the years. i dont feel detached at all. there are moments when i feel extremely connected to him and i have never felt that before with anyone. as to the ua, i agree that we need more. during plan a, i eventually let him meet my needs. currently he meets my needs somewhat. he said it will take time for him to show me all the love that he knows is capable of giving me. which i totally understand. he lost his love for me at the false recovery. i know it will take time to prove many things to him.

I think his doubts would be removed before long if you really threw all of your efforts into getting in that UA time. I would also focus on the policy of Radical honesty and how critical it is to creating true intimacy.

What things could you do that would make him feel the most loved? Can you go ask him that question?

And why didn't you? It was a simple request and it was also a request he wouldn't have had to make at all if you had been proactive. You look lazy to him. Many BSs would look at this as an example of a WS not even being willing to do the little things so they sure can't count on a WS to do the heavy lifting. Add that to little UA time, a FR (plus you left BH), and general cruddy feelings an A brings about. His withdrawl is understandable. Step it up!!!

Did you say ^^^ to your BH? I hope not.

Clearmind,

Did he get all of the details of the affair to his satisfaction, or did he withdraw and not want to know anything?

Was there any downside for the OM was their exposure to his workplace or family?

God Bless
Gamma

I would reinforce this statement three fold. You must explain all the reality and circumstances, and if he has forgotten or missed asking something: volunteer it! Don't but the burden on him to come up with all the "what ifs"- that's torture. Tell him everything.

I have been exactly where your H is.

I was waiting for my WH to behave in the way that best case scenario waywards on this forum behave. Pulling out ALL THE STOPS. Making it their life's work to recover their M's and do everything that is humanly possible, whatever it takes, to heal their BS's from the pain they had caused.

He didn't do it.

He committed to R. He had NC with any of his previous AP's. He gave me complete transparancy. He followed any EP's I put in place.

He did NOT seem to put any effort into reading MB materials, principles, forums, etc. or educating himself on what it would take to recover our M (I did). He did NOT post on these forums (I did). He did NOT come to ME and say 'are there any details about the A's I have had that you need to know that you have not had answered?' (there were, only every time I brought it up he seemed so put off by the fact that I would continue to bring this up that I felt guilty for doing so and therefore I didn't bring them up and they festered). Although we had discussed him taking a poly many times he did NOT go forth and make a poly appt and take one. He did NOT pull out all the stops. He did NOT 'chase me' and make me feel like he was 100% enthusiastic about our R and dedicated to doing whatever he could to heal me and make me the treasure of his life.

I, in turn, continued to lose love for him because of this. I got to the point where I was apathetic about him. I wasn't mad anymore, or considerably hurt. I just wanted it to be over.

I am not sure what accumulation of events happened to turn him around. He did and now he is finally driving the recovery bus. He is coming to me to plan UA time, discuss our EN's and how well we are meeting them, make sure he is doing the right things. HE is making sure our UA time is met, not me. HE is planning our dates, not me. HE researched, made an appt for, and took a poly. HE, is driving the recovery bus, not me.

I felt like my WH did not take it seriously. I felt like he did not expend all his effort to recover this M. He expended some, like I said. But I wanted to see efforts of GRAND proportions. I wanted to feel like our M, our recovery, my healing was the #1 thought on his mind every day. And I did not. I felt the efforts he was making were efforts that anyone would make to sustain a good M, not efforts a TRULY REPENTANT WS who had completely devastated his spouse would make to make amends. That is the difference.

I don't think its too late for you, but you must act fact, because once I was in the state your H is in, I was ready to go.

Have you made recovery your #1 goal in life? Have you pulled out all the stops and done everything your BH could ever need to heal from this? Have you answered all of his questions openly and honestly, have you maintained complete NC, have you followed all EP's to the T? Have you proactively discussed his feelings about this, planned UA time and been adamant about following through with it, planned date nights, made him feel like making amends to him is the foremost thought on your mind? Have you worked your A$$ off to meet his most important needs?

I am guessing a big NO to those questions since one of his simplest requests, that you continue to post here, seems to have been too much for you.

As far as the depression cycle. If you get depressed because you feel guilt, feeling guilty is good. You should feel guilt for what you have done and the damage it has caused. But wallowing around in your own guilt is selfish. Your goal needs to be to fix this, and if you are wallowing around in guilt and giving yourself permission to be depressed, then you are not doing what you need to do to fix this. Feel guilty, and respond to that guilt by doing everything you can do to make amends for what you feel guilty for.