Thank you all for posting.

AI has just told me, after a brutal argument that saw my bags packed and by the front door, that she does not like me, and does not know if she loves me anymore.

She does not know if she wants to recover with me.

She is brutally hurting, and this is all because of my actions.

Again, thank you all for responding, and especially HPB.

I'll be back tomorrow. AI has agreed to let me stay and prove myself.

I'm going to bed. Today needs to end.

I'm not going to post any advice. You have recieved volumes of that. Known lots of dudes like you through the years who have fooled themselves as to how "cool" they are. All of it BS. All of them actually with very low self esteem. All of them losers in life by the time they reach 40. Many lost years that they can never get back.

Al is seeing you for who you are. Not fooling anyone pal.

However, just want to say that I hope for your childrens sake alone that one day you can actually look in the mirror and be honest with yourself as to whom you have become and try to be a role model for them (however slim the possibility)

Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't happen until years later when your children are wise to the world, look you in they eyes and see you for who you truly are and how you destroyed their childhood.

However, I know Al is strong enough to give them a great life without you.

God forbid they grow up in your footsteps. Too bad you don't want the best for them in life.

You only get one shot in this life my man.

Are YOU the kind of person you want your children to be?

Did you pack your bags, or did she pack them?

Reposting for the third time, because you keep ignoring my questions.


So, are you too lazy to find out what Dr. Harley says to do in order to eliminate angry outbursts? So far the answer seems to be "yes."

Remorse: what to do when you owe your wife an apology.

I have some great material on this gleaned from Steve Harley and Dr. Harley.

But I don't feel like putting for the effort to share it at the moment.

If you're willing to work for it, you can find it in my posts to FWH GreenMile on this site.

Higher priority for you: what does Dr. Harley say to do to eliminate angry outbursts?

Dr. Harley says to own the responsibility for my anger. That I need condition my brain to take different neural pathways in response to anger. That relaxation in the face of angering situations is the key to conditioning the mind to respond correctly. He says that no one can make me angry. Others may frustrate me, but my anger is a choice.

I packed my bags. She told me to leave.
I have yet to leave.

20years: thank you for your opinion.

Markos: I will look for the advice you imparted to GreenMile, and appreciate your honesty. Whether you post this advice to me or not holds no concern to me. This site is replete with information. It's my choice as to whether I use it or not.

For now (meaning that AI is still in bed and I am otherwise alone in the house), I'm concentrating on the children. As much as you will all disagree with me, they are the FIRST priority here.

That's not true. If the kids were your first priority you would not be having "brutal arguments" with their wounded mother.


Your choices (past & present) bring chaos into their lives. The pain & chaos continue, thanks to you. You are not some sort of magnanimous good father. You might fool yourself, but no one else.

Every argument a child witnesses/hears between his/her parents hurts that child.
The "brutal argument" means one thing to adults, and something quite worse to the children.

To a child, seeing or hearing that brutality in their home weakens their sense of safety and security.

It is as if you were hammering nails *link* into their hearts.

Loving children means loving their mother.

*link* to news article <~~~ click on link Fighting Parents Impair Kid's Emotional Development

Does this even remotely sound like you put your children as your first priority ..... over your bad temper?

What was the fight about?

You need to learn to stay calm and not become demanding, disrespectful, or angry even if your wife becomes demanding, disrespectful, or angry. Hint, and rule number one from my anger management therapist: SHUT UP. It's also Dr. Harley's rule: "Do not say or do anything when you are angry, because everything you are thinking of doing or saying is insane."

Dr. Harley says that wives of angry men frequently test them, pushing their buttons to see if they've really stopped being angry or not. My wife says she's done this, both intentionally and subconsciously.

It really does take two to fight. I heard this for years before I came to Marriage Builders, but only Marriage Builders taught me how.

She asked you to leave, yet you stay, against her wishes. You have no respect for her whatsoever. You are not doing her a favor by letting her sleep in. Kiss your kids goodbye, and send them in to wake up mommy and walk out. Don't say a word. Just leave. If you care even a tiny bit, you would leave.

We do not argue in front of the children, pepperband. That's as per a request made by me many years ago, and an agreement that AI and I made pre-affairs, and I mean ALL affairs. It will not be broken.

These children know that their mother and father are having a very tough time. They also know that we love them, and we DO NOT, under ANY circumstances, transpose ANY of our arguments onto them.

We BOTH get upset and sometimes snap at them, but we never punish them for our own problems. In fact, we apologize to them and teach them from our own mistakes. Because that's what good parents do. They teach their children right from wrong, especially when the parents are the ones who have done wrong. I don't think you'll disagree with that.

They are cared for by two parents as individuals AND as a united front.

I will not argue with you over this, pepperband. Call me a whore and an abuser and a murderer, if you will. That's your concern as an advisor to my "wife".

My relationship and safe keeping of my children is farther reaching than an online community geared towards marriage recovery. And at the moment, they are my main priority. I will continue using the MB theory and concepts for personal and marital growth because it is an invaluable resource.

If this affair and the circumstances around it have taught me anything, it's that being a good parent and helping my children feel loved is far more important than anything I've ever done, or ever will do, in my entire life.

Thank you for your opinion, pepperband. And thank you for explaining my place in AI's life as a lousy lover. It's not about quantity or ability. It's about quality and connection - something I am directly responsible for. And I'd eapecially like to thank you for the thread on the Locus of Control. Your words are incredible and your insight is a boon to all those who would like to improve themselves in any way.

As you said to your son, if I'm not in control of myself, than I need someone to control me.

I own my [censored].

I am immune to flattery.

Leave.

Rationalizing:

You speak of "this affair" as if it was a great marriage, interrupted by an affair, and is now on the path to recovery.

Let's step back, WAY BACK, and consider this: your affairs took place throughout the entirety of the marriage.
I've been married for almost 7 years, have three children (1, 3, 7) and have been unfaithful to my wife for all of our years of marriage.

So, AI is not dealing with a man's mistake - she is dealing with the desperate hope that you will change into the husband that you have never been and is perhaps coming to the realization, as most others here have, that this was an honorable attempt which is not going to go anywhere.

A husband trying to be the good husband he never was.
A father trying to be the good father he never was.

So let's call a spade a spade here.

You still refuse to respect her wishes by refusing to leave when she needs you to - in other words, she is left to 'sleep in' while you watch the kids (I bet donuts she is either not sleeping but crying, or passed out from exhaustion), taking solace away in the bedroom because you refuse to leave the home.

Your children are your top priority?

Right.

You have betrayed your children every bit as much as you have betrayed Al.

Pepperband: Good.

Prisca: No.

TinT: No.

Markos: I asked her to stop belittling me and my efforts, I asked her to stop insulting me, and I asked her to look at the change and then tell me if I hadn't done anything. She responded with an angry outburst. Over the past two days she's given my my medicine in terms of AOs and DJs. Intentionally or unintentionally. I've been calm in the face of all of them. Last night I was rude. Last night I asked her to stop or I'd leave. I used disrespectful words.

When she reacted, I packed.

I didn't leave because she was still willing to talk.

I didn't leave because she told me she doesn't WANT me to leave.

She told me to leave if I can't speak calmly and rationally, which I decided to do for the intention of hearing her out.

I haven't left because I CAN fix this. With MB theory and practice. And self change.

I'm NOT responsible for her actions. I WILL do what she wants me to do and I AM doing it without complaint or regard for myself.

What I CANNOT do is let two wrongs equal a right.

Only SHE knows the truth about all of this. You internetty people only know my arguing with you, and her hurting words. Ask her to tell you the truth about this past two weeks. Ask her to tell you EVERYTHING. The bad AND the good.

Exactly what I was thinking. She's most likely pretending to sleep to avoid this last abuse before you leave. Which is why I said to kiss them all and send them into her room and leave with no last confrontation.