Where do I start?...<P>I've had probably one of the crummiest weeks in a long time. It started on Monday when I had an overwhelming desire to contact the OW. I posted to this forum instead, and got the usual good support from everybody. And I was able to hold off. Then the next day, Tuesday, my wife and I attended councelling together. It went REALLY bad, and I was so down from that. I felt very hopeless. In a moment of abject weakness I contacted the OW. I emailed her at her home and basically told her I missed her. The next day (yesterday) I read her response which was basically that she was doing good with her fiance and that she had moved on. I emailed her back and told her that I didn't want her to say "hi" to me anymore in the halls (we work at the same place), or wave if she saw me. Nothing at all, because we couldn't be friends (something she hoped we could eventually become). <P>This of course sent me through a tailwind of depression (as my post "barely holding on today" will show). Not only did I feel hopeless about my marriage, but also the OW was totally beyond my reach even if I did get divorced. Oh I was in hell yesterday.<P>So I went home from work and while driving I thought of stuff I wanted to say to my wife. Stuff that got dredged up during our councelling session. The upshot of which was that I really wanted her to understand where I was, how incapable I was of really getting much done in our marriage because of my withdrawal. How hopeless I felt. She has felt all along that I don't WANT to try, and she made it sound like I was selfish about everything. I wanted to stress that I couldn't do anything because I was in such withdrawal. I tried to convey my hopeless feelings.<P>Anyway, we ended up getting into a huge fight. Lot's of yelling and cursing and screaming and crying. Luckily our son was at a neighbor's house! I told her about contacting the OW and she went ballistic about that and almost threw me out. At one point I was so angry that I almost left on my own. She started crying real hard and lost all control.<P>I had to grab her by the arms to try to calm her. During this moment, I realized how useless it was to keep hanging on to the feelings I have for the OW. I realized right then and there that it was totally doing me absolutely no good to keep feeling that way. I held my wife's face in my hands and forced her to look in my eyes. I told her with my face inches from hers, that I thought we could do it. That we were strong enough to get through this. And I told her that I would get another job. I have some friends who own their own business and they've been trying to get me to work for them for a long time, but I wasn't very interested. Now I'm going. I'm calling them today, right after I post this.<P>She calmed down after that and then I started bawling like a baby. We talked more after that and we actually held each other, and I was the one who initiated the hug. At that point my son came home and we had to get ourselves together. We went out to eat and things felt pretty good.<P>After our son went to bed, we talked some more and I told her about the first affair 10 years ago (she never really knew the details). Things got kinda bad after that again, but at least she wasn't freaking out like she did earlier. She insisted on complete honesty from now on, which I promised. Of course, she's not likely to accept that promise right now, but I can only hope to prove myself through actions. I've been honest to her about this second affair, and now I'm clean about the first one too.<P>We went to bed on a bad note, because she was still dwelling on the past. The fact that we didn't work things out 10 years ago and the affects it had up to now was weighing on her mind. Neither of us slept well. When I left to work this morning, she barely kissed me and still looked very sad.<P>But for some reason, I now have hope. More hope than I've had for months. Can this actually work? Time will tell, but there is the slightest glimmer down there at the end of the tunnel.<P>--airheart

Yeah, it can and WILL work, if you follow the steps and rules for recovery. It won't be easy at first, but you'll be surprised at the progress you'll have made 6 months from now!

Dear airheart, You can do this, as difficult as it may seem, because you know it will bring you the most peace in your life. Your replys have been helpful to me when I have posted because of your veiw from "the other side".As the betrayed, I can assure you that your wife wants honesty and truly appreciates that you are there and willing to even try to work on the relationship even when your hert isn't in it. I think last night will be a turning point for both of you. Making our marriages work is the hardest thing we will ever have to do but it will deffinitly be worth it. You have to feel good about yourself. I truly believe that is what you want.

Hi airheart,<P>I have to say that your post pleased me to no end. Mostly because you finally have an optimistic outlook for the future, which includes your wife. You're still on the upswing of withdrawal, and if you can find something positive to say about your future together, then that says a lot. Your withdrawal will mostly get worse for a while, if you really do leave your job. So, unfortunately there's probably more to come. But, you cannot begin to heal if you still see this woman. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it! That's imperative! It sounds like your head knows what to do, follow it this time, you won't be sorry! If you can get past that peak, then you will be well on your way. Just be sure to remember that with any addiction, it will and does get better. It only takes time! If you've got the time, then you will be rewarded handsomely. You will have a wife that loves you, and a son that can be proud of you. You can't put a price tag on those things.<P>You should also be commended for being honest with your wife about your past. She has every right to know what you've done. Hopefully though, this time you will correct the problems that obviously got ignored the first time around. Then you won't have to worry about being in this predicament again 10 years down the road. Sometimes all we, the betrayed, want is HONESTY! Let us choose whether we can deal with your actions or not. Just as long as we know exactly what it is we have to deal with. It's selfish for you to make that decision for her. Aside from her obvious pain, I'm sure she must be relieved to know the details that have eluded her. Hopefully you guys can build a stronger relationship this time around. Be patient with her. She has a lot to deal with right now. Just as I would ask her to be patient with you until this horrible withdrawal subsides. Good luck to you. <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller

It sounds like you are having a breakthrough of sorts. The realization that your misery is not because of your wife and who she is but because of yourself. This is a good insight and the right start for making things work the way you want them to. You've already made the decision to make your marriage work. Your decision about finding another job is wonderful. You are taking steps to take control of your own life so that you don't create more pain for yourself and your wife. I see lots of hope here.

Dear Airheart,<P>Oh, I would give my life for a day like you had with your wife - where you disclosed so much about your first betrayal, and willingness to move into recovery with her, and your vow to honesty. Your intimacy level with your wife is absolutely what I want with my husband.<P>He hasn't disclosed, we are moving on, but there is that emptiness inside because I know and he is still pretending it never happened. Our marriage is so much more wonderful - working in recovery one sided, he's happier, I'm sure the affair ended, I'm happier and more secure - but these doubts about whether it will happen again are there because of his continued coverup. I would much rather have him feel he can be honest with me. Much more work to do, and I need to be patient. Maybe he will someday tell me everything, and that intimacy will return.<P>You are on the way to a beautiful life with your wife. Congratulations!<BR>

Airheart,<P>You have my respect for the big step you have taken. I also think that this is the beginning of building respect and trust into your marriage. <P>Best of Luck and God Bless us all!<P>Lila140

Airheart and all Betrayers.... HELP us too please...<P>First AH, it will work because you're conflicted and making the effort, classic withdrawl to this "layman".<P>I'm really curious on any advice from the "betrayers" on here. I'm giving my W Love without exception or expectation. I believe she will separate sometime before we get thru this... I guess, just looking for reassurance that NO love busters is the best and all we have to offer while they're so High on their "feelings"<P>

I'm sorry for what you're going through and I feel for you! However, it must be a real turning point for you.<P>There was a post a couple of days ago where someone asked if it would be easier to end a relationship with an OP on a bad note. At the time I said no, but now I'm thinking it would be for the best. Actually, I think the best way for it to end is exactly how it ended for you. Sometimes the hardest part about breaking it off with an OP is knowing (or thinking) that they really want to be with you but just can't.<P>Although it must have hurt you terribly you can now give your marriage an honest chance. I hope you will have good times to come.

Thanks to everyone for your words of encouragement! I still have some big doubts and worries, but the difference now is I don't have this big cloud of not letting go of my feelings for the OP. Kind of a big relief really.<P>trustntruth -- gee I wish my wife appreciated my honesty as much as you would! ... When I told her about the email contact, she went hysterical literally! She didn't know which way was up! And when I told her about the previous affair 10 years ago, she became very very sad, and today she's still very bummed about what I told her. Well, of course I'll give her alot of time to heal again!!<P>Holly -- thanks. I think of you alot because you're in the same state I'm in. I hope you have a turning point like that, something that allows you to say to yourself -- "Self! I'm just wasting my time pining away for OP! And I'm gonna knock this sh*t off!"<P>TexasMan - I've responded to your post from earlier today sorta... Noel asked pretty much exactly the same question as you did and you can read my post there. However I will add one thing. You say you are offering "love without exception or expectation"... This might be good for your wife, but it may be a drain on you. How long can you go on without expecting anything in return? I think the point of Plan A is to not Love Bust, and to approach everything with kindness and respect for their feelings. But you still have to stand your ground. It sounds to me like you're sorta letting her walk all over you. Hope I'm wrong about that... <P>--airheart

Airheart -<P>I'm sorry for the pain you experienced and what is to come in that respect. <P>I am very happy though, that you broke through with the Honesty. That will set things in motion in the right direction.<P>Excuse my ignorance if you've already answered this question at some point before - Did you ever show Dr. Harleys materials to your wife?<P>If not, maybe it would ease her fears and sadness and let her know that you have discovered a concrete way that you two can work to build your marriage into something special and lasting.<P>Hugs,<P>Sheba

Hi Sheba,<P>My wife, in fact, turned me towards this website, so she is familiar with the subject matter. In fact, just today she said she wanted me to reread the "forgive and forget" column. But she always looks at things from her perspective, and I think she glosses over anything that says she has some of the burden of work too. Yeah, intellectually she gets that, but emotionally she's still - "you must do this for ME" without the answering "and I'll do this for YOU"...<P>One of the problems I am having that I'm trying to get her to understand is to try to take my feelings into consideration sometimes. Obviously I understand that she's incredibly hurt by this whole thing and I feel terrible about that, but she doesn't quite seem to get that I'm hurt too. Oh well... just something to work on.<P>--airheart

Airheart, I was going to ask you about W reading the postings here. Give her time, she is looking at what you have done and that is typical for the betrayed, in whatever form, to do. When my H and I have gotten in a good fight I find alot of the air is cleared, unfortunatly sometimes things are said we regret. Have you confided in her your needs? She can't read your mind even though we think our spouses can, they don't know until we express our needs to them. Right now it might be hard for her to respond, but I think if you keep expressing them to her in love without finger pointing she will eventually respond. Stay strong, keep loving, the rewards will be there. God Bless you.<P>------------------<BR>He's making me sick<P>

OOP'S forgot to take off the he's making me sick.

hi Ginn,<P>Yeah, we actually started talking about emotional needs last night. We talked about some and she agreed that she hadn't been doing a good job at the ones I mentioned. And she mentioned a few that she wanted me to do also. Then we got into the whole thing about the affair 10 years ago and she withdrew big time, so we didn't get to talk much more about that. <P>I did tell her that she should come on this forum and start posting and she could also read my posts... but so far she doesn't want to do that. I think she's too afraid -- she is not a native English speaker and would be too self-consious about her English to post (which I say is silly, cuz her English is better than alot of people here! )<P>I'm hoping tonite will be better. We have to go to my son's school for orientation and then my father's coming over, so we'll be kinda busy doing other stuff. Hopefully we can talk more before going to sleep tonite.<P>--airheart

Airheart, I feel good about your situation. Hang in there. Sometimes we go through Hell to get to Heaven. Give her time, she will heal, especially if you keep doing loving things for her. Forgive yourself, I think you are at a turning point in your relationship. Clear air helps you to breath better and W too. I love it when my H gives me reasuring hugs and tells me he loves me. Keep up the good work, it will pay off.

Hi Airheart. It's good to talk to you. I find I gain a lot from your posts, it's like listening to my H!!! I was really glad to hear about your week - Hell for you both I bet, but a point to move from. I know I've had weeks when I felt like it couldn't get any worse, and it did !!! I guess we all hang in there one way or another!!! Hope you read my reply in "barely holding on" - wrote that before you posted this, but maybe a bit how your W is feeling. When I re-read it today, sounds a bit like a speech, but take it that it came from the heart. My H is in withdrawal, and this hurts me a lot. Maybe your W feels similar. Let me try to explain. It is a huge attack on ones own self worth to find that the person you love is loving another woman. It makes you doubt your own attractiveness, questions your personality and all the things that make you unique. When my H goes into his corner to "grieve" what he can't have, it really hurts me to see how much he is hurting, both for him, but also hugely for me - seeing the effect she has on him. Makes it almost impossible to acknowledge H pain, as it makes me hurt too much myself. I want to hold him, help him heal, but feel her presence everywhere. Makes me close off to protect myself.<BR>You did the right thing in being honest - my H didn't after the first affair, and I was left continually trying to work out what he wanted, without him telling me. I now know I was expected to live up to his image of the perfect relationship which he had with her, but I had no idea, and so we didn't work on any problems as they weren't brought out into the open. Letting your W ask as many questions as possible, whenever she feels ready, and answer them as honestly and gently as you can, makes a huge difference. I found a huge need to ask really odd questions at strange times - usually in the middle of the night, or first thing in the morning, and found I could accept the reality of it better when he answered openly but with some gentleness. If he got angry with me asking, it just made me more focussed on what I was thinking, and drew us more apart as I felt he was once again trying to keep something from me. As time went by, I found the need to ask became less. I found I would swing between anger and despair/sadness very easily when I thought about the 2 of them together - Affair 1. I'm still coming to grips with the current Affair.<BR>I saw a psychologist when all this first started happening to me, as I wasn't coping with the hurt very well, and found it was really helpful, as it put things into perspective a lot. I learned I needed to accept 50% of the responsibility of our problems, and by looking at my own issues, this helped a lot. But I also learned that 50% was his contribution, and I shouldn't have to take responsibility for everything. H is still not really accepting his share of responsibility - He had counselling on his own for a bit - to try to come to grips with his need for, and inability to have the OW. Still won't go to couple counselling, which tells me he's not 100% committed to all this. I found what you had to say about your inability to give much to your marriage while you were withdrawing to be quite valuable - I often feel the same as your W,and am sure my H feels the same as you. Your courage to change jobs is huge - My H won't and that is a major problem for me. I don't know if I can accept this indefinately, because even though he say's he is trying to put it in its's place, I will never feel emotionally "safe" with him near her. <BR>Phew, that was a bit long winded, but I have been helped a lot by what you are going through - maybe I can help you understand the other side a bit more. Bye for now.

sosad ---<P>WOW!! That's all I can say. WOW! What you describe is EXACTLY the way my wife feels. I'm sure of it. Thank you so much for putting it in words like that. I'm going to print out this thread and show it to her. I've suggested she come to this forum and read my posts and start posting herself, but she's still not doing it...<P>I wish I had read your post yesterday! I could've used it. Last night we ended up fighting again and I spent the night on the couch instead of in bed with her. I need to be WAY more understanding of her feelings. I'll try to do that from now on.<P>thanks so much for that response sosad!<BR>--airheart

Hi airheart,<P>Have you read "Surviving an Affair", or "After the Affair"? I can't speak for the former, but the latter truly helps you understand your betrayed wife's feelings and reactions to the affair. If you haven't, I really recommend them. I know it's hard to see her pain through yours, but asking her to stay with you at this point is asking an awful lot from her. Meaning, that it's taking a lot for your wife to still be there and see you going through your withdrawal. Especially with the trauma that the affair itself has caused. It's truly difficult enough for the betrayed to live with the fact that the affair actually happened, I couldn't imagine just how much more painful it would be to see your spouse aching so terribly because of their love for the OP. No matter how much you want it, you're not going to find any sympathy from her. I'm not saying that you want that, but you have to understand her pain is probably tenfold what yours is. If you can both at least recognize this and learn to be patient with it, then hopefully you can move past it. I hope you can understand your wife's position better after reading sosad's response. But, I still recommend reading at least one of the books I mentioned. <P>------------------<BR>The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt with the heart.<BR>Helen Keller

Distressing,<P>Yeah, I read "After the Affair". My wife bought it and TOLD me to read it, so I wasn't all that receptive to it at the time. I'll go back and reread the chapters that deal with the betrayed's feelings.<P>I really do understand what she's going through. Really. And I don't expect sympathy... far from it. I would totally understand if she were to kick me out tomorrow! I was just trying to convey to her that I'm hurting too, and the only way we can work through this is by BOTH of us being aware of each other's hurt. Maybe it's too early for her to see that right now. And I'll be the first to admit that during our fights the last couple of days, I've lost sight of that too. Sosad's response kinda gave me perspective again.<P>--airheart