Arghhh! Grrrr! I need to vent and regroup.

I spoke with the best (AKA worst!) man today.

He is an enabler. Despite my exposure. Thankfully, he did not defend Gollum. He DID say my not contacting him before going into the container was not right, that COMMUNICATION is important. That I should have called him. That I cleared out nearly everything, which is not right. I told him I took personal and marital belongings. And Gollum was doing things he is not aware of, but that I am not going to badmouth his friend unless he asks for the information. Silence. He doesn't want to know.

I told him that Gollum has accused my father and I of trespassing on his property. I explained that my father asked permission of the landowner (his father). I questioned if he believed I had trespassed. Silence. He again said I should have rang him. I said Gollum could say what he liked about me to make himself feel better, but he could NOT drag my father's name through the mud. That my father was offended, and I would not ignore this. Silence.

What absolutely infuriated me... he said he is very sorry for what Gollum and I are going through. I managed to get it together for this... I said that Gollum had chosen what he was going through, and all choices had been taken from me. But that I was now going to act in my best interests. Because clearly Gollum was acting in his.

The rest of the conversation was a lost cause.

Oh, and I asked about assets that had been removed. He said he bought them. I told him that my solicitor has been requesting receipts for some time, so no doubt Gollum will be in touch shortly to obtain these. The response... silence.

Actually, much of the conversation on his part... silence. Apart from lecturing me about not COMMUNICATING. And not wanting to get INVOLVED.

Some of my feelings now are akin to D Day. Betrayed yet again, lied to yet again. It hurts. But I KNOW I am stronger, I can see it for what it is. THANK YOU MB.

Oh, and I suspect for the entire conversation, he just thought I was a bitter scorned woman who couldn't cope with her husband moving on and being happy...

Although he did throw in "I've been friends with Gollum for so long". Defending his enabling? Pathetic.

I am still seething.

The weird thing is, this worst man actually tried to "date" me before Gollum, when I was 15. Gollum used to get VERY annoyed when worst man would say he could have "had me" if he had been more respectful and taken things slower.

I saw worst man then for what he was. I knew to steer clear. But then, as time went on, I thought maybe my first opinion was wrong, because I was so young at the time. Gollum always said how honest he was. I saw some evidence of this. I thought worst man had matured.

I am questioning if we every really know someone, until the [censored] hits the fan. Then, and only then, we see who they are.

I really am struggling here. Not with Gollum, I know who he is. But with all of the accomplices.

I am tempted to text worst man. Just to say "I am sorry and hurt that you are choosing to support Gollum with his dishonesty and betrayal. I am disappointed and thought better of you".

Then Plan B him as well. Or should I just leave it?

Oh, Caracal, sorry you're going through all of this! Is there a reason you had to talk to worst man? Since he's triggered all of these awful feelings for you, it might be best to just avoid him completely. And he's also involved in robbing your marital assets, if indeed he bought things under value. If you have to interact with him about that issue again (and I don't know how your legal system works, so take this with a grain of salt) maybe let him know you'll subpoena him to testify? Or, since gollum isn't giving you records, can you do what we call a third party subpoena for discovery materials, where you can get records from someone from other than gollum?



I've thought about this so much myself. I had a wonderful couple of hours today to chat with women from church and of course, we did talk about my lousy WH.

Bill Harley says it's easier for people to change their beliefs than their behavior...that people can conform beliefs to justify their actions. I think, having gone on this infidelity roller coaster with two different men, this is very, very true. So...let's move forward on that. Take a lesson from it. When you get ready to date in the future, when you're free of all entanglement with gollum, you will have to judge the men you meet based upon their behavior, not their belief system. Actions, not words. I know you're not at a point of thinking about this...but at some point, you will be.

Through that painful experience that has set back your recovery a bit, what self care are you doing? Take care of Caracal!

Jen, thanks. It sometime just helps to know I've been heard. Did I have to talk to the worst man? No. I did it because I am now determined to face my fears. I suspected worst man would betray me. But I had to face that. I don't know if that makes sense. But I think because for so long Gollum denied me any rights by keeping the truth... now I feel I have to speak my truth. Yep, it set me back initially. But I feel damn proud of myself at the outcome.

I admit, I was shaking with fear and anxiety during the coversation with worst man. But I did it anyway. For me, this makes me feel proud of myself. Gollum never faced one fear. I am determined to face all of my adverseries because I have nothing to hide.

I told the worst man that my solicitor was requesting receipts, but I suspect he will put his lies in writing. I think worst man has bought Gollum's lies. But I suspect he feels torn, which is why I want to text him. Maybe I just want to believe the good in people.

In Gollum's and my case, it won't get to court. Unless he becomes absolutely nutso, it just wouldn't be worth it for either of us.

Jen, your strength inspires me. Surviving an affair once... I am getting there. Surviving it twice, as you have... Hats off. I want to learn MB so I affair-proof any future marriage. I worry, when I am exposed to accomplices, about my ability to "judge the men you meet based upon their behaviour, not their belief system. Actions, not words". I am not ready to be dating, I am not yet divorced. But I am thinking of life beyond this. And I want to choose wisely. I have lost faith in my ability to choose wisely, even with MB. I really thought worst man would have acted more honourably. Although if I look at his history I can descern WHY he hasn't. Track record. Poor boundaries. No wonder he sides with Gollum.

You are right. Actions, not words.

And recovery? Sometimes these setbacks help process so I can move on. As long as I stick with Plan B, and leave Gollum to his own devices of course. I told worst man I did not want any information about Gollum... not that anyone volunteers it. They are all too embarassed / ashamed. And my contact makes them feel worse. I said to worst man, I know my contact makes people uncomfortable, because I am the truth... that Gollum IS married and has a young mistress. I didn't mention her pregnancy. That seems too much for others to bear.

Sometimes, having learned MB, it is so hard not to try to educate others. The enablers. But I have to let it go, for my own healing.

Sigh.

Oh what a pathetic piece of work!

"I've known him a long time" this just translates into "I'm scared my friend won't like me any more if I man up"

The same stuff happened to me. I had Softlads phone with me on the morning of exposure because I had taken it.

After sending out the FB messages, he got a text from one of his male friends (who I had thought of as OUR, very long standing friend). It said "You okay, softlad? Indie's been on FB and has revealed all".

This made it clear he already KNEW. I called him straight up and told him so. His answer? That "it wasn't his business" and that maybe I was jumping to conclusions and there was no affair. I gave him an earfull about lying to me and how our marriage WAS his business when he was asked to support it at our wedding.

When the next text came, from another male friend (who again, had not contacted me to show support) I merely called him up and said I had the phone. He sounded very abashed and ashamed - but did nothing.

Being popular with their friend meant more than doing the right thing. Just like your worst man.

Neither one got in touch. Nor did their wives who I thought were my friends.

I unfriended them all on FB. Feels much better to have decent friends these days.

I'd PB worst man too.

{{{{cara}}}} a learning experience, isn't it?

btw, my vote is no text. plan b him, period. you can't educate a wayward, and he is one.

Agree Plan B him.

Here here.

I have lost a few friends, but I am 100% positive that the friends I now have are the people I want.

Thanks you all for your support. Scotty, thanks for still popping in on me.

The worst man sent me into a two day spin. It is amazing what a Plan B crack can do, and not even direct contact with Gollum. Just an enabler lying to me about Gollum's actions.

I had a good chat with two friends today who know worst man (and Gollum) and helped me "trespass". The immediate response to worst man's criticism of my not COMMUNICATING to him, was when did he COMMUNICATE to me his buying my assets. I realised then how easily I still get gaslighted. I had not thought of this. Instead, I had questioned myself, yet again, and whether my actions were right. Even though part of me knows they are.

I have learned something through this. I am not capable of marital recovery. I just could not face the fogbabble, the doubts, the battle. I still want the A to fail, for Gollum to be remorseful... but I think this is just so I know the man he was and could be has returned, and for my battle to in some way feel worthwhile.

Ny LB$ is irrelevant to me right now. I want peace. Marital recovery would not bring me this for a long time.

I am worried I have not learned enough MB. I worry I am just moaning not learning. I find it difficult to practice MB when I do not have a relationship, even when I try it on family, there is a LOT of difference. 2X4's are welcome at this point. I see where I have learned and grown, but I worry I have stagnated...

I dont see how you are any differnet from any other Plan Ber. You are doing the plan, seeing the benefit, but there are hurdles and problems. Its inevitable.

Whenever they happen they send you into a tailspin. When Softlad contacted me over the home insurance, I was a mess.

My IM would have handled it fine. I would have handled it fine IMing for someone else. But when its you - when it's your wayward, you're not objective.

That's when we need this forum, our IMs and level headed friends.

So you're not alone!

It is a journey, not a destination you are on.

You are doing fine.

I know what you mean Caracal. In many ways I feel that I am too a student of MB only, just studying the principles and not being to apply them since being in plan B. I hope one day to be able to put MB into practice. That will have to occur after personal recovery.

I do find i sometimes POJA with my kids on small things....other times I just have to be a parent.....

So, what color are your nails and lips?

I agree with the others.

I think the MB principles can be used in every aspects of our life.

Work, maintaing boundaries. Families filling EN. Just a couple of examples.

You're becoming wiser and that's a good thing.

Thank you for posting this! I can relate to this! It brought on an "A-Ha!" moment for me. I just posted in my own thread how I genuinely welcome constructive criticism, and ponder on it too much not even realizing that most of the "criticism" I've received from Frollo (and his enablers) was gaslighting!
Maybe you didn't see it in THIS situation, but you're aware of it now (and you've helped make ME aware of it in myself). AND you're aware that there was nothing wrong with your not COMMUNICATING with Gollum about your plans. Don't believe you're still easily gaslighted! This post is proof that you're not! You eventually saw worst man's criticism for what it was. It has no control over you now.
Yay Caracal!

Worst Man has provided a "receipt".

I caught up again with some mutual friends on the weekend who actually asked me about Worst Man and the D process... The male friend (who grew up with Worst Man and Gollum) mentioned to me that Worst Man always was gullible, and looked up to Gollum. This friend mentioned that this was no excuse for Worst Man or Gollum, and showed how pathetic they were with the continued deception. I was suprised to hear this friend say, Caracal, keep looking at their actions, not their words. Another friend told me at the end of the day, I will have my integrity, and that is priceless.

Post-A... I have great friends.

I've been focussing on work. This weekend I plan on indulgence, a shopping day to hit the sales. I have started collecting some odds and ends for the house, my first items were a boring salad spinner and grater on sale, but they are things I have always wanted and never priorised whilst married.

Actually, typing that, I just realised what I wrote. My thinking is slowly changing.

Thanks for the continued support. I have had a bit too much of self-criticism lately.

Nothing is boring if you are interested in it. Salad spinners are cool....just start thinking of all the creative things you can do now....i have even thought about having a t-shirt made that says "IB at it's finest".

Hah! Now that I want to see a pic of LR. You could put a cucumber beside it... for cool as a cucumber. In relation to the salad spinner, for anyone who thought otherwise

Another letter from Gollum's solicitor. Thick and fast. He must be paying a fortune. I have sent four from my solicitor. He has sent about eight.

Proof that one lie requires more to cover the first.

And Gollum could have avoided the legal expense if he had paid me the agreed sum for one of our assets at separation. He agreed, agreed, and agreed, but eventually refused until he "spoke to a solicitor." In typical wayward fashion, I had to involve a solicitor first, months down the track. He would never have acted, as he believed he held all of the cards. I acted when I refused to give him what he all of a sudden requested.

In hindsight, and for anyone following my path.. get a solicitor involved from the get-go of separation. Don't wait. Don't think the wayward will be honourable. They won't. As time goes on, they get worse.

This letter... I am unsure of. For the first time, he is not arguing. He is asking me my proposal for settlement. Because he wants to avoid the two of us paying too much in legal fees. Hmm, did Gollum get his first bill?

Yet he is also requesting all of my bank statements. Something I asked for first from him, but am still waiting for (other than the Aus one which he doesn't use).

I am learning, thank you MB. He has STILL not provided the evidence I asked for, repeatedly, of joint assets or even his income. And those statements he has provided, I have caught him out on in small ways.

My solicitor intends to respond that I can't propose settlement until I know the value of the assets.

I hope this is Gollum caving. But I will not underestimate the enemy. At the back of my mind, Gollum is trying to lull me into a false sense of security... he wants my bank statements so he knows how much to go me for.

I really hate this and want it over. Every time I get a solicitor letter, I feel anxious. I question myself. Posting here helps. No-one else seems to understand this. Everyone wants me to just back off because they see that as healing my pain. Yet part of me feels good that I am standing up for my rights. Win or lose, I have stood up for myself. And sometimes pain can't be healed overnight. It takes time. I am getting there, despite the setbacks. I really feel I am learning so much.

The old me would have ignored all of this and just said Gollum can have it. Now... not without me putting up a fight for my rights.

Ah...the letters. During my first divorce, we had a custody evaluator involved to determine what would be best for the kids, and WH sent letters fast and furious. I responded to most, but they kept getting more and more outlandish and he lost all credibility. But as these are coming through his solicitor, you'd think that some of the bullspit would be out of the picture, like asking for info he hasn't provided. Or asking for a settlement proposal before making one of his own (who's going the show their cards first?)

Keep going strong...I love the idea that you have great friends surrounding you that know all the people who have failed you and see them for who they are.

Thanks Jen. I think Gollum has been using his solicitor as his (expensive) outlet; since the solicitor got involved, my IM has said she has had no contact from Gollum although she has messaged him relevant info. Whereas beforehand she says she was getting contact (although I don't need to know what it was about). I only found this out because the legal process is going through; my IM has been brilliant.

I am unsure about this last letter; I hope that it is Worst Man trying to reason with Gollum, but I don't hold my breath. Maybe Golum doesn't like the reminders that Horse Ho is about to drop whilst he is still married. Or maybe he is finding the expense tough. Either or, I know it is all about him. And what he wants, thinks or feels. I really think I get this, finally.

I have showed the cards first because I have the least to hide. The last remaining few, I refuse to show, until he does. Because he has more to hide, and what I am currently hiding, I suspect he wants the most.

And my friends are GREAT. I am honoured and amazed that the majority have surrounded and supported ME.