Hi all. I have been browsing posts all day in the forums, and finally decided I think this is the place for me to be.
Dday was 5 weeks ago when my WH told me about an incident that occurred 5 years ago while he was out of town for work - he was intoxicated and wound up with some woman from a bar in his hotel room, messed around, and called things off before having sex.
I'm having a hard time feeling like we "fit in" anywhere in all of this infidelity stuff...because it wasn't an ongoing thing, and it wasn't intercourse...but I realize that doesn't make it hurt any less. And to be honest, the 5 years of what followed and the deception in it are what hurts more than what occurred that one night.
I do believe WH is remorseful, but I still find great difficulty in really giving myself to truly believing that...the 5 years that followed that incident have been horrible. I can say I know he has paid for holding this in and for the sin itself...physical illness, weight loss, anger issues (that have affected our marriage.) After this came out, a lot of things made a lot more sense...and he will agree, that he has made me pay for this for the last 5 years. But I am trying at this point to salvage a marriage that was never good.
Despite believing he is remorseful and he has apologized many time, has patiently listened and discussed whatever I want to...I fear I cannot deal with his natural passivity with things. In this situation, I expect him to take the lead and reconcile himself to me...not to just be that go-along-with. He is more loving in general, but as far as the re-building the marriage...not really happening. Setting up counseling...hasn't happened. I am really not going to be feeling good about this situation if I have to start giving ultimatums...I guess that's where I need advice. How to deal with that?

hi DOS. welcome to MB. even though your H didn't "do it," so to speak, the intent was there, drunk or not. and the fact that he's treated you poorly for so long because of his own actions that you weren't even aware of...well. many here will tell you it's not the actual act as it is the mind set and risky behaviour that is the real issue. he had many negatives on that night: away from home, out with "the boys," drinking, open to women.

i can tell you, however, that you can work with a reluctant, passive spouse and turn him into an active loving partner. have you read the book "the 5 love langauges?" in it you'll see that people (not just Hs) need help (or training) to become the partners that we want. this book dovetails nicely with the MB programme. i am only just beginning the MB programme myself, but what i have seen of it impresses me so much, and i want the end result for my own marriage.

you really need to get "his needs, her needs" asap, and read the basic concepts on this site. the EN and LB questionnaires available online are very helpful as well - you need to start fulfilling ENs and stop LBing asap. if your husband doesn't enjoy reading, you can read aloud to him. consider books on tape (i guess they're mp3s or CDs now) for the car as well. you will need to educate him on your own ENs and LBers.

i can tell you from experience that it is very hard to meet the needs of someone who is not meeting yours. very, very hard. and you need to prepare yourself for finding out that it didn't end at messing around. but you're aiming for the payoff, right? and don't worry, you fit in.

If I understand what you are saying, your husband had a one night stand and was mean to your for 5 years after that?

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It is rather unbelievable that your husband while drunk would call things off at the last moment, while having non-intercourse sex. I would say get the facts, scedule a polygraph. That (although not very highly accurate) will scare him enough to come up with the whole truth. The truth may hurt, but you cannot live in uncertainty without jeopardizing your sanity in the process.

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You are right that he should make it up to you, but you should help him. Not wait for him to do so. Give him a written list with what you need to feel safe in the marriage again.

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It is recommended you read 'surviving an affair'

You should not let him get away with being passive, but you should also avoid bringing things up over and over again once you are sure you have the facts and things are out in the open.
The goal is for the two of you to have a marriage that is even better than before.
Getting the facts and moving forward towards a loving and mutually rewarding marriage, is what will let you heal in the end, but it takes hard work on both sides.

God bless,

Happyheart

I am so sorry you are here, and that you have a five year period of deceit to recover from. As only we BSs know, it is not just the infidelity which pains us, but the lies, so a five year betrayal of your trust is a heavy blow indeed.

I am cautiously optimistic that he �came clean� to you. But suspicious as that never happens without a reason. Why now? What pressures forced out the truth? Where you asking him for an explanation and pushing for an answer to his behaviour?

I would also counsel you to take his version of events as unproven and request a polygraph so you get the whole truth of what transpired. Not only is trickle truth very common, but you will feel reassured and cared for if he takes ACTIVE responsibility for proving himself to you instead of PASSIVE expectation of your trust and forgiveness.

You also need exposure badly. This will provide you with vital support from your loved ones to help you endure this pain. It will also motivate your H to recognise the enormity of his actions and the need for him to get off his comfy chair and show himself trustworthy. Not just to you, but to all the people who love him who he has hurt. Ask for support and for people to use their influence with your WH to work on the marriage.

You need to know the identity of OW and expose her to her world too. Is she married or has a BF?

You �fit in� fine, all affairs are unfortunately alike.

Read the Exposure 101 thread to learn how to expose correctly. You also need to Plan A your husband into motivation for working on the marriage. Read up on Plan A.

Do NOT mention or warn your WH of exposure. Keep him away from this site until he is proven trustworthy.

You should also snoop for signs of an ongoing affair. I find his lackadaisical attitude extremely worrying and fear this story is a red herring to throw you off the scent. Particularly if he claims this is some anonymous OW with no identity. Check out the Operation Investigate forum for tips.

Thanks everyone...I realize there are some things I should expand on.
I do feel optimistic that he has fully exposed the extent of things. I guess a lot of that has to do with what led up to the confession on his part.
There had been a lot of messages given by the pastor at church that led up to him realizing he could not live with just sweeping this under the rug...no matter what that meant. He feared confession would result in my leaving, and him losing his family and kids. However, through hearing the messages at church, he realized he needed to confess and deal with the consequences, no matter what those may be. He felt he had lost his relationship with God over the years as a result of not coming clean. There was a message one week about David and his affair with Bathsheba and the mess that ensued from his cover-up of that. At that point, he wrote a letter to me confessing what had happened 5 years prior.
Two weeks after that, I straight out asked if he had been unfaithful to me...it was obvious in our conversation about our marriage that there was something drastic being hidden...the things he was saying and the grief on his face made it obvious. He then verbally confessed. Looking back, I realize I should have known...his hopelessness and self-pity were really out of proportion to the information I had about our marriage.
Last night I pushed for more details, not knowing whether I really wanted to know those or not, but I needed proof that he would be fully honest. It was a muddled conversation because it hurt him to go there, but I pushed it. I somewhat wished I hadn't, but how much worse can it be than the ideas playing in my head every day?
I have Surviving An Affair requested at the library, but have looked at it online.
I fear being a doormat (that is a theme in this marriage for me) and right now fear me telling him what I need from him creates that. Is it really ok for me to tell him that I need him to call a counselor...for him to agree to setting certain hedges (not drinking if I am not with him, calling me on his own when he is late, doing exactly what he says, among many others) ?

Oh, and OW is unknown...out of town, he doesn't know a thing about her. She was married. When he called things off, before she left the room, they did conversate that each was married and had issues in the marriage with their spouse. He called it trying to justify the actions...even though he knew that didn't justify a thing. Makes me sick that he villified me to some low down loose woman while I was at home being a faithful wife taking care of our daughter.
And it is the deception that hurts more...far more than the physical act. My commodity isn't physical love, so I guess that makes sense too...if he gave something emotional to someone, I would probably feel more betrayed by that. But it is the 5 years of not giving me a choice as to what I could live with...while we had another baby, while he villified me for so many issues in our relationship. Lied times when I asked him if he had been unfaithful before. Ugh.

Dr H advises spouse to never blindly trust their spouses.

He advises a 'Trust but Verify' policy.

The only way for his story to be verified is with a polygraph.

Being 'optimistic' he is telling the truth will not be enough to settle your doubts after five years of lies.

You deserve reassurance.

The fact that he is blaming you for the adultery, "issues in the marriage" is a big red flag that he is still wayward.

There are no issues in marriage that cause this type of behaviour. Poor boundaries with women cause this behaviour - nothing else. If he doesnt realise this he is still a risk, even if he doesnt know it.

Are you snooping?

I'm not saying it's hopeless, even if he is lying. The guilt and fog of the affair cause strange behaviours, lying and blameshifting etc and these can be resolved with the MB program. I am just saying you need to be proactive and aware.

DoS,

Does he have unaccounted for time and opportunity in which to conduct an A presently? Does he still he go out of town for work? Have any of his female coworkers or friends ever been a concern to you?

I'm not really buying this anonymous OW bit. He wanted to unburden his conscience one bad day but is still protecting her.

Very few As involve strangers. Those that do are usually serial cheats who go out looking for As regularly.

It makes no sense. They didn't exchange names,jobs or identities but they swapped tales of marital woe. A person who was a perfect stranger, who had no time for temptation to build slowly over time, was somehow irresistable. WH had no self control with a stranger - yet had self control enough to stop before sex.

He claims he told you to save his marriage. Yet isn't doing anything to save the marriage.

The pieces don't make a whole picture.

I would stop listening to his WORDS and start watching his ACTIONS.

Are you snooping for a current A? Do you know how to snoop?

Well, it has been awhile, and I have been lurking here daily, but have not followed up on my own situation. WH has been pretty good overall discussing concerns and what we need to do to move forward. It is nowhere near where I think it should be at almost 6 months out from revealation (which for us is over 5 years past the occurence.)
Have read basic concepts together, listened a few times to the radio show together, and are currently reading HNHN. Getting ready to do questionaire. Have had discussions about EP but no list written...nothing solid, and it bothers me a lot. Nowhere near 20 hours a week of UA, but definitly better than in the past.
A lot of my current frustration comes from lack of motivation on his part. I feel I am working at meeting his need for SF, working on admiration which is a big one for him, also most difficult for me to meet. But, not feeling much effort on his part. I think he is lukewarm about MB as a whole...pretty sure he will not be fired up about POJA since his Independant Behavior has been a big issue for me since day 1.

I will admit...I have great difficulty setting boundaries in this marriage and being assertive. I can be a mean angry lovebuster....but not appropriate assertive to solve anything. And I'm afraid of finding out I may have to follow through on the boundaries I set when he may not meet them.
I know the most helpful thing would be to be doing the coaching,but haven't even brought it up to WH since the $$ is likely to be an issue.
Mainly wondering at this point how I should be thinking with someone who is a better person than he was before, but is still not moving at the pace I want. How much of this is my responsibility? Should I specifically say "Here, I want you to do X, Y, and Z? He is passive in nature, which he recognizes as being a big issue for me, our marriage, and the circumstances in which he wound up.

Have you set up the boundaries that would affair proof your marriage? Such as, has he stopped all overnight travel without you? Is all of your leisure time spent together?

And what are you doing during your UA time? How would you characterize your dates? Where do you go? What do you do? How many hours per week are you getting?