Do you have a list of requirements for him to recover the marriage?

I am concerned that he is "committing to an effort" and not to the marriage. Like he has an escape hatch ready. It's lf you haven't seen him yet and are planning to then stand your ground and re iterate what you want/need without lovebusting and AO's. let us know how it goes.

~RQ

It sounds to me like you are running low on energy for this marriage. I think you need to consider seriously what you want at this point. Recovery is exhausting and takes time. You're young and smart and can find a better match.

I don't see how you can possibly do any plan A now that you're 4 months into this nightmare. If it were me, I'd be thinking about how to get out of this situation as quickly and smoothly as possible.

This is a nightmare and he is incredibly wishy washy. Not enough to commit to here, imo.

And the reason I say you can't do plan A is because you probably just don't have it in you. This man has poisoned the well...most likely permanently.

MO

Since you went through a FR with WH does this need to change?

Words from a wayward mean nothing. WH needs to take the actions necessary as outlined even more so after the FR.

Let WH do all the work here

Set up his own IC
Pay for the MB online program. Not you
Provide passwords. Be transparent etc.....WH needs to step up here with action.

A WH that truely wants to try and save the M will make these happen quickly.

All I see from his foggy words are maybes. Not much to build on with what he wrote.

Just trying to give you enough without actually having to committ to doing anything or did I read it wrong?

I liked Indies idea of very short plan A and then into Plan B when you have plans arranged.

Very good thread by Indiegirl

Never take the word of a wayward

nESRE

I feel like I have no energy or drive for this. I'm working on new requirements but I just feel like its pointless. I wish with everything I have that it was different but I just don't feel like I want it. I want him to want it, but I don't think I do.
I don't know. Maybe I'm just tired today.

You're tired because a FR can almost be more draining than a Dday.

He knows what your conditions are and hasn't met one. I would keep looking into filing. If he were to make radical changes then you could drop the divorce.

You need actions from him not just words. He's still in contact with OW.

Requirements �

These are requirements for you to commit to the MARRIAGE, not simply commit to effort. I would need to know that regardless of the effort, you want the MARRIAGE and ME more than anything else and will continue this unless we both determine its not working, not until you just determine its not working.

This is such a difficult process you need to fine with these requirements, to be fine with doing anything to fix this situation. I would be fine and would have been fine a few months ago with doing all of this for you if we had a real marriage.


That�s what it�s like for a person that is committed to someone else and to their marriage, they actually live most of these things without it being a written down requirement, it�s just how they go about their life and it is normal to them.

Something like the apologies would need to be all worked on before the holiday season (Thanksgiving).

��������� NC for life
1.������ NC letter written and signed by you, proof read by me prior to sending and sent via certified mail or UPS to ensure it�s received. If this needs to be sent to her place of employment to ensure it�s received, then that�s what you would need to ensure.
2.������ NC with anyone that is not friends of the marriage
3.������ Defriend and block her and anyone you interacted with up there from facebook (or any social media) as well as any mutual friends you may have(for example, this includes ----- (your cousins ex)) and may include others that I haven�t thought of yet
4.������ Change your main e-mail address, delete all e-mail accounts in my presence.
5.������ Disable your registration at etsy in my presence
6.������ Disable your registration at skype in my presence
7.������ Block her and her friends/family numbers from your phone � I think there is some more of an advanced way to do this that you need to pay for monthly, if so, that must be done until its permanently changed.
8.������ Remove any contacts that you used with her in your phone� in my presence, such as her vet, any restaurants you went to etc.
9.������ Discontinue shopping at any areas that she might frequent in that area, such as weiss or any others I have not yet thought of.
10.�� If she contacts you in any manner, I am immediately advised and you do not respond to her in any way. You do not say, don�t talk to me, you do not make eye contact, you simply turn and ignore, regardless of how embarrassing/rude or how it may seem to others that may be around you at the time. How I would feel about it if I were standing next to you is how you would need to think about it.
�
��������� Not going out to bars with your friends/co workers alone, I'd go with you. This may include bachelor/birthday celebrations in the future.
�
��������� Not going out with friends alone anywhere for until I feel safe about it. After that, photos must be taken of locations when you arrive and when you leave and you cannot deviate and go elsewhere, even unplanned, until I feel safe about it. I will consider that to be lying if you were to go elsewhere.
1.������ This does not include ----- from work, I would not feel comfortable with you going anywhere with him without me except if forced in a work capacity and then photos would need to be taken of your locations when you arrive and leave. (This is not because of how I might feel about him, this is because he simply is a poor example of how to have a marriage and deal with conflict in a marriage.)
�
��������� Following and adherence of marriage builders principles. I believe it is important to follow them and believe in them and we would then see how they have such a great success rate.
�
��������� Individual counseling set up by you � keep trying them until you find one that works for you
�
�
��������� In-person apologies to my and your family about the situation and explaining your commitment to the marriage and to me.
�
��������� Transparency:
1.������ GPS in your car
2.������ Total access to your phone if I want it. I need to know how to unlock it and use it, and may pick it up at any time.
3.������ Not deleting text/e-mail history on your phone or via computer. I would not plan on sitting and reading conversations, but if I needed to, I could easily look.
4.������ Answering any questions I may ask without frustration or anger, even if you are tired and want to go to sleep. Even if you need to be late for work the next morning, the marriage must be priority.
5.������ Total access to any passwords I may need - phone/e-mail/any electronic accounts such as online media storage, online shopping, message boards etc.
6.������ Posting on marriage builders at least once or twice a week to try to work through how you can improve your boundaries so that I am able to read what you are saying if I wanted to do so. You would need to be honest about whatever is posted.

�Thoughts?

�

These must be done prior to allowing him in the house





Extraordinary Prcecautions (to adhere to for life!!


I changed some it around for you. I would STRONGLY suggest tht he completes these requrements before you let him back in the house. I did not and I sincerely regret it. Recovery for me is very slow and difficult and I don't want you to suffer that way. I think what you have here is really good.

~RQ

Ok, I sent it.
He responded:

I think your list of demands is a bit ridiculous, but I'll think about it.
I could still find ways around it if I wanted to, but that's not the point.
If I decide to, it will be for real.


Honestly?! He ASKED me what I would need. I literally copied and pasted his email.

I sent you an e-mail.

Are you ready?

Moving, if you were in Plan B, how did he get an email to you? Shouldn't you have changed your email address?

MANY waywards attempt this as Plan B is begun, because they don't like it. Also, they believe that they can manipulate you into accepting the status quo.

You should change your email addy, phone numbers, etc. Then, have your house secured, so he can not come and go as he pleases(or you can go stay somewhere else until he stops staying at the home). And finally, have your IM re-send the conditions you have to begin recovery talks. These are the FIRST things that you would have him do before you would even consider breaking PB.

Scotty, technically she hasn't started Plan B yet.

MO - you should have held off on giving him your requirements until he showed a commitment to recovery. His answer made it clear he is not. But now that he knows what it will take to continue this marriage, you can prepare for Plan B. This means writing the brief Plan B letter that we posted before and you can add "you already know what it will take for me to stay in this marriage. Contact IMxxxx when you are ready" or something to that effect. Put it with his belongings. Change your locks, phone numbers, e-mails, etc. and get dark. Complete darkness must be done in one swoop. Do not leave an outlet for him to reach you. Do not change the locks and then your number the next day. It must be launched all in one day.

Let me know when you are ready

~RQ

Sorry, misunderstood. There was mention of the PBL, so I thought that she had given it to him already.

Scotty, she had been in Plan B before but broke it.

MO - you got to stick to your guns on this otherwise you are wasting your time and showing him that he can walk all over you. I would suggest you re-read your thread, soak in all of the advice that was given and make sure you are better prepared this time. Ok, hon?

Ok, I sent the short plan b letter w the info about an IM along with the requirements rq re structured and the bank transaction I needed to complete will be done tomorrow morning and no communication is required about it.
He's only had my work number for this last round as I was scared so my work is changing that on Monday.
I'm not going to stay in the house. I don't want to be alone and at least this way I'll stay w my friend. Vars and nanny cams are in operating order in the house.
We're supposed to hear about the loan mod for the mortgage on Tuesday.
I'm hanging with my family this weekend.

Ok. Keep us posted. You can do this!

So you are going home when? Sunday? Will he be there? Make sure you have changed or blocked your e-mail (I can tell you how to do this) and you are ready to change the locks again when you go home. Is all of his stuff out?

How was your weekend, MO?

You dont have to stay in the house, but you should still kick him out.

Get him out of the house and have people to stay if you need people.

After he is out, then you can decide where you want to stay.

You dont want him carrying on his affair under your roof do you?

Just put his bags out, secure doors and windows and get support.

Hi everyone. I am sorry that I haven�t responded in a few days, especially sorry to you RQ. I very much appreciate you e-mailing me on Saturday. I know you gave me good advice to delete the e-mails and not read them, but I must admit I did not take it.
I�ve been really anxious as a result and just didn�t know what/how to write this. I think I had some sort of panic attack at work today�I just tried to relax this weekend. I�m likely leaving things out, please ask questions.
�
He contacted me on Saturday via work e-mail as it wasn�t yet blocked (that was starting Monday) and said he was so sorry, he made a terrible mistake and he wants to work on the marriage. That he wants to do everything I asked and it�s not ridiculous. He then forwarded me this e-mail that he sent to her that I would in no way call an NC letter as it had a threatening vibe though it did stress it was over forever between them, and that he was working on a proper letter with more detail that he knew was what he needed to show to me and then mail to her as per my requirement.
�
(At this point, RQ wisely told me not to read the e-mails, to delete them)
�
I started getting e-mail forwards of password changes of the accounts that I said I needed, as well as others he has, a few of which I did not even know existed, as well as a deletion of his main e-mail and a deletion of his accounts that I asked for, along with him signing up for SI and MB. Lastly, I got a forward from ebay of a GPS that he purchased himself. I didn�t need to open any of them to read, I could tell from the subject line basically what was happening as it noted �Password change� or �Account Deactivation�. I immediately deleted them.
�
Though, the next e-mails about an hour or so later, I started opening. I received e-mail of screen shots of him blocking her and her friends from FB etc as per my requirement, he sent me instructions on how to use his cellphone. He e-mailed me to beg to speak with him, asking where I was if he could come there, that he feels differently now and that although he knows I would have no reason to believe him, he wants to show me he is committing to the marriage and to me.
�
He e-mailed that he was ashamed that he thought of me during that time as a backup plan and he realized that I never was that in his life, and that he know realized what I had been trying to do to make us a team all of these years that he took for granted before. He said he took for granted that I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him and he didn�t realize how precious that was before and that he knows he doesn�t deserve me to still be around but that he is so thankful that I am.
He said that nothing was my fault, that none of this was ever about me at all, it was about how he blamed me for not meeting his needs even though he never expressed to me what they were and that he didn�t feel like I was meeting them, it was also about how he felt about himself at the time, so even though he knew being with her wasn�t right in his life, he had to continue it to keep that good feeling it caused. �He said that he was such a fool for not listening to anyone before this and that he should have stopped this long ago.
�
Basically, I think she did something and that was that he decided he needed to take the weekend to think about things. From the tone of the e-mail he sent to her, whatever she did was so awful he then realized he was throwing his life away. But if she did not do that, I honestly don�t think he would have left her. To me, he is just like Sue, in the book.
�
So I still feel like a backup plan. Even though he has done everything on the list like he never did before, and even though he has said it was never about me, which is something he never said before, I just don�t know if it is too late? I haven�t responded in any manner and I did get the final agreement to proofread today from my lawyer. �

I'm not in the house, I'm staying with my friend. I did actually have a really nice weekend with the family. That part was more relaxing than I've done in months.

So, wise mb friends, what do I do now?