Maybe he is still talking to her - maybe he is not. The OW just bought my H another phone, so I didn't know.

Either way, you are at war right now, so you have to behave as if he IS in an active affair - End the affair, now!!! You are not playing games. Don't wait around like I did b/c I didn't think he was in an active affair either. They just took it deeper, hid it better and were smarter at hiding things than I was at snooping.

This IS the time to expose. If they aren't in an active affair, they most likely REALLY won't be after you expose. If they are, then this should shine the light on them and make it much more difficult to continue having an affair of any sort.

This is just as serious as acting quickly in a fire or going to the hospital with chest pains. Don't minimize how important this is. Especially don't minimize the importance of acting on the advice given here. I didn't buy it completely at first. Exposure and Plan B are all you really have to shock your husband back into reality before it is too late. Don't let it get that bad!!!

littlebit, they ARE in an active affair, they work together and continue to contact each other. That means the affair is ACTIVE. Any contact = active affair.

It would be like an alcoholic changing the names of his drinks to "business drinks" and pretending to be sober. That is all her husband is doing by calling this a friendship.

Of course I want to save my marriage, why else would I signed up here? But, I also came knowing, after MUCH research & reading, that I didn't have all the indicators of an affair. He admitted the sexting was wrong, he stopped. Period. That was all I asked, that is stop. And it did. Since then, he has deleted their texts, sometimes, but I KNOW what those say, I can read them. There is nothing sexual, no plans for their future, nothing. I also have a recorder in his car. There is no talk of their future, no I can't wait to be with you, nothing even remotely romantic! Matter of fact, 90% of the time there are at least 1-2 other people chatting with them. They are talking about sitchs at work, stuff other co-workers are doing and a few times about her plans to leave her H & how she is afraid he will take their daughters. (Her H told me he is fighting her for custody). There is no 'secret' cell phone, as I'd hear him talking on it while in the car. His schedule is precise enough, I know when he is even 5 minutes late. GPS shows me he is at work & the recorder tells me he is at work or still in the parking lot when talking to her & a couple of other co workers whose voices I do not know.

I honestly wouldn't even THINK he is still having at least an EA if it weren't for his emotional detachment. This past week he has opened up more, I have noticed that. His time at work is accounted for, his texts are clean & he isn't disappearing for a couple hours here or there.

I exposed the sexts, but I see that it wasn't a true exposure as I didn't demand NC with her. I only asked for the sexts to stop. I'm beginning to wonder if I am paranoid. Time will tell I suppose.
I guess I'm not ready to essentially castrate him until I have proof more recent than a month ago, proof that ended when I confronted him.
I guess I'll come back if & when I have it. Thanks for your time.

You might want to educate yourself and see how many affairs around here start with opposite sex friendships and with co-workers. Your husband is having an affair with this woman.

Here read these by Dr. Harley?
What to do with an Unfaithful Wife #3
Are "Friends" a Threat to Your Marriage?

Please heed the advice Melodylane has given you.

Dear realitymom:

Unfortunately, GPS software on a vehicle or phone (especially GPS on a vehicle) actually only tells you where the DEVICE is, unless you can get confirming information.

Any chance his car is at work, but he is elsewhere, e.g., her car?

BV

realitymom, I am confused about why you signed up too. I really am. You have the evidence of the affair and yet you are not willing to do anything with it to save your marriage. The sexting is your evidence of the affair. You KNOW they are still in contact, so I am confused why you won't try to save your marriage?

If the alcoholic changes the name of his drinks to "business drinks" is he any more sober than he was before? That is all that has happened here. Just because your husband lied to you about the sexts does not mean there is not an affair. It just means he lied and you bought it. You should not buy it.

You do understand that recovery is impossible as long as they work together? Asking him to stop sexting with his girlfriend is meaningless. That is like asking the alcoholic to stop drinking vodka when he goes into the bar and gets drunk every day. He just does a better job of drinking vodka when he goes to the bar and comes home drunk every night.

The solution is for him to stop going to the bar and stop drinking ALL alcoholic beverages.


Even the dumbest wayward can figure out how to rendevous with his OW at work. And every time he sees her at work will put him back to day 1 of withdrawal. He can't ever come out of the fog as long as he sees the OW at work every day. Your marriage will never recover.

You need to listen to this radio clip with Dr Harley telling a BS that recovery is impossible as long as they work together: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=652

First off, we are not telling you to "castrate" him. We are telling you how to save your marriage.

You don't need any more proof. The sexts are proof of the nature of the relationship. Proof of an affair is proof. You have the proof and waiting for more is like waiting to get hit by a car. Why would you wait around for more damage? You are kicking the can down the road.

You have all of the necessary evidence of the NATURE of the relationship with the sexts. An affair does not magically change into a "friendship" the next month.

Realitymom,

I am a newbie here currently recovering my marriage. My H spent hours a day flirting and playing with a "work mentor" for months via text. The texts got more and more secretive and he pulled more and more away from me during this time. There wasn't any sexting and I still demanded no contact with this woman.

Can you honstly say you feel comfortable now that they have sexted letting them continue their friendship? Have you read Dr. H's article, "Are friends a threat to your marriage?" You are not living in reality if you think that this isn't dangerous and that you are not risking your safety in your marriage by allowing this to continue. Opposite sex friendships are not safe for your marriage.

And also, why would a person who promised to love and protect you be trying to "teach you a lesson" for snooping? That is an abusive situation! If he has an issue with you snooping, then he has something to hide. A husband who is honest and innocent will not have any problems with snooping, but would be so transparent that he would make it easy for you to know everything.

Is this how he handles all conflict in your marriage? By trying to punish you and teach you lessons? Those are abusive ways to handle conflict and are Love Busters. Have you read the Basic Concepts? Do you have Surviving an Affair?

Please think about this and whether you want to live your life this way or whether you would like a romantic marriage where your husband strives daily to never do anything that would make you unhappy. It is possible to have that with Marriage Builders. To get there, follow the plan that Melody and the others are giving you. They know how to save and affair proof marriages and helped me restore mine. For that, I will be forever grateful!

TinT

realitymom, this tells me that you are putting the burden on your WH to do what it takes to end his affair and return 100% to your marriage. I understand that theory, but it isn't going to work. Waywards need help to end their addiction to their affair partner. You're going to have to do some up-front work to get this affair killed. He's not going to help you, as you have seen.

I would consider a couple of things:

Get a job. If you've been living paycheck to paycheck for years and are unable to achieve financial goals, like setting up college funds for the kids, it's caused stress in your marriage. I understand the importance of being home for the kids, but I think they would prefer that you work if it means their family will be healthier and intact. This financial stress may be one of the things that your husband 'escapes' when he's with OW.

He is gas-lighting you. Of course, this is an affair. He's going to go underground with this so you'll back off. My H did the same thing in his affair. The OW's husband put the heat on them, so they decided to 'lay low' and avoid contact to convince him that there was nothing going on. Then they would resume the affair. That didn't last long - they were both addicts and couldn't stay away from their 'fix' for long.

Have you exposed the affair to their employer?

YUP. Those sexts alone are evidence enough.

Great post TnT! That's exactly what I thought when I read that about teaching her a lesson. Huh? Who does that? I know! A typical wayward and/or a 15 year old in high school. This one should be added to the thread about the craziest things said by a wayward. Really? Teach her a lesson? SMH.

Realitymom, you are not that gullible are you? Surely you're not buying his lame excuses? You sound like an intelligent woman. Listen to what you're being told and act before its too late. We're here for you.

RM, you do understand the "teaching you the lesson" ploy was a lie to cover up the affair, right? You busted him and he made that up to cover his affair.

You can NEVER go by the words of a wayward. You can only go by his actions. So, ignore his ridiculous cover story and accept the fact that the "sexts" are proof of his affair.

The fact that your husband doesn't want you to snoop on him is an indicator that he has something to hide. And he does. An affair. He is having an affair with this woman and the sexts are the proof. Period. You should proceed accordingly.

realitymom, these last 5 or 6 posts before mine are REALLY great posts. Earlier when I said maybe he is-maybe he isn't, I was trying to get you to see that either way, your marriage is in danger.

You HAVE to assume he is laying low, not that he ended the affair. Best case scenerio - he told her no more and is trying with all his might to stay true to that. He still see's her at work everyday. He didn't end it b/c of his own desires to end it, so the feelings are still there. He whiteknuckles it until he gives into her again. That is how it is most likely going to play out.......Unless.......YOU take the iniative NOW to make sure it is exposed and give them a public reason to stop.

You don't know where his mind is right now. Addicts constantly think about that thing they are addicted to b/c it gives them pleasure/escape. It is better to assume that he is whiteknuckling it, but will cave to the desire soon, than to tell yourself that he ended it b/c you are not finding anything. So, that would mean you HAVE to expose.

Please read those posts above mine again. He should be ok with you snooping. It is your marriage too. That is abusive to injure you with an affair, then blame you for trying to figure out what is going on!!! That falls under the umbrella of addiction and is gaslighting. They will say and do ANYTHING to keep that thing that is giving them the most pleasure right now. He covered the snooping up with a creative lie to throw you off. They will push away their family for a fling. I can't believe someone would do that, but they do, everyday.

MelodyLane said it so perfectly. TinT right on the mark, and maritalbliss relates perfectly the scenerio.

Please don't minimize what you need to do b/c "he doesn't seem to be doing anything." Call it a pre-emptive strike. This is your marriage and your family you are talking about here. If you don't strike now, your husband really has no reason not to go back to what he was doing before. He made the choice to go there, he will do it again. Don't assume that he won't b/c he seems to be being honest now. Remember, you can't believe anything he says right now. Actions can not show everything either. They "act" like they want to work on the marriage, but they just get smarter taking the affair deeper underground.

littlebit, the thing that RM is missing is that she believes the affair has ended only because she has no RECENT evidence of the sexting, sleeping together, etc. But the fact that they are still seeing each other at work is evidence of the affair. ANY contact is evidence of a continuing affair because it has the same effect. Realitymom is very confused on this point.

Waywards can change the name of contact to "business contact" but that is like a falling down drunk changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and claiming to be sober. It doesn't matter what you call your drinks or your contact with your affair partner, a drink is a drink and an affair is an affair. It is the same.

I totally agree with ML here. He is having an affair and contact must stop because of this FACT. You need to expose at work properly and kill it. Meanwhile you Plan A him while continuing to snoop secretly. Go to ML's exposure thread for all the steps and letters. You can do this. He's fallen off the slippery slope and you need to step up and be a smart wife and show that skank and your H that you won't be a doormat anymore! You can do this!

Get that woman's claws off your husband before it is too late! Expose and do it right.

ML& TinT, I agree with what you both are saying. I had hoped that had come across in my posts. Everyone has been so clear and have spoken so eloquently even. I wanted to try to reach her where her denial is. I have been right there. I know how easy it is to read your words, but the stronger idea in my own head that maybe he isn't still in the affair b/c I can't find anything takes the top spot! That is what you will go with.

As I read through so many threads here and read yours and other mod's responses, I KNOW now the wisdom you keep trying to get across to us. I also know that for some of us (if not most) our desires to hold on to our marriage, make us "hold on" in the wrong ways and that makes us not take the actions that you are telling us we need to take to save our marriage! At the time, it does seem like a paradox to castrate them to save your marriage. It is VERY difficult to see the wisdom behind WHY castrating them is important to save your marriage. Am I making any sense?

Cut it out.
That's wasted typing and solves nothing.
I haven't recommended castration for ..... ummmmmmm ........ years & years. (never)


You're making a big mistake.
If nothing else, click my carrot/stick of Plan A link in my sig line & read top-to-bottom.
Put a damn GPS on his car and think about other ways to snoop. A VAR in his vehicle would be good.

Sound to me like:

~ this has already reached the level of a PA

~ he knows he is being watched so he is being very careful

~ time is of the essence as OW is getting a D and your WH is asking you to go back to work (which tells me he is lining things up to leave you, sorry to say)

SuzieQ, I really do trust what you just said to realitymom. I know you have been around for a while and understand all of this. While this is the likely scenerio, how do you know? For sure? If she is in denial at all, this will just seem such crazy nonsense to her b/c she would rather believe he stopped. What do you know that is making you say this? I wish I had your knowledge. I am too trusting and believe too easily!!!!

There is nothing confusing at all about this if you understand the love bank model. OW has been making massive love bank deposits with your WH and he is now in love with her. (Sorry to say this, I know it hurts, but you cannot be in denial about this) and the confusion is coming from you listening to your wayward's words when he is gas lighting and deceiving you.


Please understand that each day they work with each other, the affair continues and your M is in serious jeopardy. If this isn't already a full blown PA, it will be soon if they were kissing and sexting .


Link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8119_friends.html