That's always a good suggestion!

So "It bothers me that we don't have more sex" is a no-no, but, "I'd like to have sex once a week" is ok?

I don't know why she isn't willing to do that either? We have sex but it is more like once every two weeks which for me isn't nearly enough. When we do we both are "satisfied" when done physically, but I don't think either one of us are satisfied emotionally.

So true, so true. And despite this, she has many times and I give her credit for it.

It's ok, that is EmilyAnn's perspective, not mine. I can't make her do anything and I won't try. I'm just not satisfied with that need and I would very much like to be!

Tough call here. That is a POJA and although this would help me a lot, I think it might do damage towards the progress we are making.

Are you going to start snooping?

Of course. No need to ask it again just like there is no need to ask if I watched the videos again. This forum is voluntary last time I checked and I think it best to spend my time here posting about meeting needs and eliminating DJs.

Of course, I didn't mean hilltopper should dismiss his wife. I just think there is more going on here than perhaps she even realizes.

I think he would benefit from talking to Dr. Harley. Understand the POJA problem you have with that though.

what would you think of giving this a few days to cool off, letting your wife know you need to have a conversation (advance warning would be good I think)? During the conversation, ask her what her ideas are for meeting your top EN. Offer your idea of calling radio show for advice or getting telephone counseling, or doing the online course, whichever appeals to you most. Then negotiate for enthusiastic agreement on whatever ideas come up.

I think it has to be a time you are feeling emotionally collected, because with the info you found last night, it would be too easy to have a monster DJ. So like Markos says, patience is a virtue.

And if she blows off the idea of having the discussion.... well, that's for smarter heads than me.

Just wanted to point out that this is a very dangerous perspective because it leads to sexual aversions. The more she just does it - when she doesn't feel like it - the more she will avoid it and the more likely she will develop an aversion. If women don't enjoy sex they come to dread it. And the more they dread it the more they avoid it and begin to associate ALL interactions with that aversion.

The reason she doesn't want to have sex is because you are emotionally DETACHED, hilltopper. Women need 2 things to desire sex: an emotional attachment to the man and the prospect of enjoyment. When a woman is in love, she has no problem making love to her husband.

Hilltopper, I agree with the others that you need to get coaching from Steve Harley. I would get a session with him and he will help you persuade her to get on the phone with him. I wouldn't even check with her first. Just get a session for yourself and let Steve guide oyu out of this tar pit.

I didn't bother trying to POJA saving my marriage, Hill. When one spouse is having an attitude of 'oh, the heck with it all! I'm not doing anything!' (not saying Grace is, just saying I know *someone* who was), trying to get a POJA from them to do anything toward the marriage is quite frustrating and unfruitful.

At that point, the choice is pretty clear: either stand back while they destroy the marriage, or do something about it.

I agree with this. The POJA does not apply when one spouse is making marriage wrecking decisions. Your marriage is going down the tubes and it is time to get some professional help. Let Steve help you in motivating her.

She is not willing to do that because she is not in love.

A woman needs 2 things in order to enjoy sex: the feeling of being in love, and the prospect of enjoyment.

Her lovebank isn't full yet. When it is, she will have an easier time fulfilling this need.

I don't know what else to do to make this woman fall in love with me so I mine as well.

I think we've come a long way, but it is clear that she does not love me and I don't know how to change that other than to continue doing what I've been doing. The moment I go MB on her all the emotions and horrible feelings she had from last year will come crashing down upon her. I will proceed with caution with this approach.

I just don't get any of this. I just don't feel capable of giving her what she needs in a man at this point. I look at myself and feel like any woman in the world would be lucky to have me, yet here I am with the one woman who doesn't feel that way. Venting.....

Wow, from what I hear, you have become a great husband and have been giving her what she needs in a man -- just not for long enough.

And of course there's the recent DJs, which are not what she needs in a man. You are capable of stopping those.

Again, venting here. What is there not to love? Is a mild DJ every week or so the entire thing here? It makes no sense. Either I'm a complete moron and can't grasp the MB concepts and essentially am wasting energy and effort, or my wife is immune to MB principles.

Perhaps you are right, I just don't know. Perhaps the damage I did for so long just takes a long, long time to recover from. I have a lot of advice here. Call Steve Harley with or without my wife's agreement, or just keep doing what I'm doing. I don't know how long or how many times that I can be promised sex and then have it taken away. To her I suppose "it's just sex" but to me it's a crushing blow to my ego, my heart, and my mind each and every time. The opposite effect has occurred, I don't feel close to her and if she offered I would be the one "not up to it."

I hope you don't give up yet.

Remember Markos (?) analogy of throwing the stones in the river and how many it takes till you start seeing them show above the waterline?

I think you can be patient AND seek some extra help from MB resources, like calling Steve or the radio show.

Yep love that analogy. I hope I'm near the water line.