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Another thing i had read too (cant remember where .. i think it was Dr.Harleys Love busters book) was that sometimes people have programmed them selves to actually be addicted to conflict... they unknowingly get addicted to the adrenaline that conflict brings.. like a default reaction that has been programmed over time.

*shrugs*

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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Morning Hill... how are you feeling today? How are you doing at NOT projecting a "needy" energy towards your wife?

I read some of the replys and such since i last posted to you and seen that the pendulum is not swinging in your favor YET.

SHe is still testing you and may even be (unknowingly) looking for you to resort back to your old "needy" ways to say something like "look... see .. you have NOT changed" DOnt get discouraged ... keep up the "roll with the punches and the no big deal kinda guy" that she needs you to be.

I quoted myself from page 148 of your thread.. so if you wanted to go back and look at some of the stuff i typed earlier from pages 138 (i think) to 152.
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy from page 148 of this thread
You ask if your wife is testing you? OF COURSE SHE IS. Especially if your attitude is changing from the norm ... your wife might want to see if its for real. She wants to FEEL your changes as permanent so she may push your buttons to see where the new ones are. If you RARELY falter in your emotional state (keeping it from being negative) she will eventually give up doing these tests because you will be stimulating in other ways!

Change takes time .. and probably even longer for your wife to accept those changes than for you to actually make the changes.

MNG

No neediness just confidence and yes the test is officially on. I'm sticking to the game plan.


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smile

Your wife will eventually stop testing you as she experiences your cool and calm reaction to everything she throws at you to get you to resort to what she is used to.

Keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
It has been less than a week since my last DJ. She doesn't doodle and doesn't contact me unless she needs something or has a question or wants my opinion. She did initiate holding my hand in the car yesterday or the day before which felt amazing and she rarely does that so I must be getting somewhere. I think you are correct. She wants to see if this whole "show" is real before she'll invest energy in me and I don't blame her.

Yes, and that's true for her on a conscious level and on an unconscious level. Her Love Bank probably isn't fully open yet and is in the process of opening (i.e., she's coming out of withdrawal into conflict, possibly bouncing back and forth).

Once her feelings start telling her that this is real, then her conscious thinking will catch up.


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For those of you that are more versed in MB than I am, is there a certain timeline that one allows before the ENs start getting met back before you start to wonder if it will happen or not?

For example, let's say Hill here meets her ENs, doesn't DJ, etc by the book according to Dr. Harley and 6 months from now, they still aren't intimate and she still just isn't into it...at what point do you start to wonder if your ENs will get met back...if the other person is a buyer?

I'm really curious. My situation was different as my wife liked sex and wanted to have sex but didn't want to have an affair so we had sex frequently. Now my wife closed herself off emotionally and so the sex wasn't as fulfilling as it was now where we're both intuned with each other mentally, physically, and emotionally.


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Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Another thing i had read too (cant remember where .. i think it was Dr.Harleys Love busters book) was that sometimes people have programmed them selves to actually be addicted to conflict... they unknowingly get addicted to the adrenaline that conflict brings.. like a default reaction that has been programmed over time.

*shrugs*

I mentioned that a couple of times on this thread about my wife. There has been times when things were too good that it was almost like she went out of her way to create conflict. I could be reaching though.


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Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
It has been less than a week since my last DJ. She doesn't doodle and doesn't contact me unless she needs something or has a question or wants my opinion. She did initiate holding my hand in the car yesterday or the day before which felt amazing and she rarely does that so I must be getting somewhere. I think you are correct. She wants to see if this whole "show" is real before she'll invest energy in me and I don't blame her.

Yes, and that's true for her on a conscious level and on an unconscious level. Her Love Bank probably isn't fully open yet and is in the process of opening (i.e., she's coming out of withdrawal into conflict, possibly bouncing back and forth).

Once her feelings start telling her that this is real, then her conscious thinking will catch up.

I don't think that analysis is correct. I think withdrawal ended quite a while a go. I definitely think we have been in conflict for several months now where DJs have been ruining the deposits that we are making meeting needs. I think it is slow and steady, but unless the DJs are completely eliminated it will take forever which is why I came up with my roll call. Today is day 7 of the NO DJ/NO REACTION Zone.


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Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
For those of you that are more versed in MB than I am, is there a certain timeline that one allows before the ENs start getting met back before you start to wonder if it will happen or not?

For example, let's say Hill here meets her ENs, doesn't DJ, etc by the book according to Dr. Harley and 6 months from now, they still aren't intimate and she still just isn't into it...at what point do you start to wonder if your ENs will get met back...if the other person is a buyer?

I'm really curious. My situation was different as my wife liked sex and wanted to have sex but didn't want to have an affair so we had sex frequently. Now my wife closed herself off emotionally and so the sex wasn't as fulfilling as it was now where we're both intuned with each other mentally, physically, and emotionally.

I hear what you are saying and I've thought of that. Again she may not be in love with me but there are other things going on outside of our relationship like depression, a low libido, or low testosterone perhaps. She could also have issues with her body that she feels uncomfortable talking about with me. If she begins calling me out of the clear blue sky or doodling and still isn't intimate with me, then I'll suggest seeing the doctor. In the mean time I keep telling myself not to react when things don't go my way. She denied me last night and promised tonight, but I've heard that before so I don't get my hopes up. I'll assume nothing and if it happens I'll do my best to make it as enjoyable as she'll let me tonight.


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I'm trying to maintain composure at this moment in time. After a "guaranteed" promise of SF tonight I got rejected again. I went upstairs early and she knew I was upset. I came back downstairs about 11ish at night because I couldn't sleep and noticed some sites that came up in Internet Explorer related to Ramadan and Sex and not touching anyone of the opposite sex during Ramadan? My wife went to a personal trainer tonight from 6-7 to train which is something she used to do way back when, but not for a long time. He is Muslim. She also asked me to help her with her phone the other day and I noticed a website on her phone related to recovering text messages. Lastly on another home computer I noticed search history related to how to delete facebook photo tags?

Mind you I have no proof of anything and a year ago I went down this same path of accusing my wife of cheating 4 times. I never found a thing but then again I never had anything like searches like this. It could be she was just curious and had a conversation with this guy about Ramadan and what it means.


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What lessons have you learned since the last time?

The information and tools are available to you. You have a choice to make.

I'll not suggest anything for 2 reasons; the heat from you making 4 accusations with limited intel was put on this forum and those who helped you, and I'm quite sure that if your wife knows you are posting here, she will be reading to see what we tell you.

If she is involved, she will cover every single track she can possibly think of, throw every fit and accusation at you that she possibly can, and pretty much make your life chaos to keep you off the trail.

OR she could become sickeningly sweet, and suddenly begin to meet your needs... also to keep you off the trail.


All seen before. All part of the set of scripts.


Your choice.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
the heat from you making 4 accusations with limited intel was put on this forum and those who helped you,
The heat was put on by both of you, in my opinion. I think you blamed the advice from the people on this forum for the effect that the accusations had on your wife.

I think it was unwise for you to post that new information here. What do you think she's going to say and do when she reads it?


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Rule number one: calm down.

Remember, Marriage Builders advice is not to confront without proof. Continue to snoop and verify all you want, but don't start buying into ideas like "I can't take it any more," etc. That's just setting you up to destroy all of the wonderful work you have been doing. It's hard enough to make love bank deposits as it is right now. Withdrawing them all is going to be a real big problem.

The number one problem in your marriage has been your emotional reactions being all over the map. That's still the number one problem in your marriage. You would love for it to be something else, because then that's less work for you.


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Originally Posted by markos
Rule number one: calm down.

Remember, Marriage Builders advice is not to confront without proof. Continue to snoop and verify all you want, but don't start buying into ideas like "I can't take it any more," etc. That's just setting you up to destroy all of the wonderful work you have been doing. It's hard enough to make love bank deposits as it is right now. Withdrawing them all is going to be a real big problem.

The number one problem in your marriage has been your emotional reactions being all over the map. That's still the number one problem in your marriage. You would love for it to be something else, because then that's less work for you.

I have a level head. I don't want a sexual rejection to turn into a nightmare. She is at the gym(again) and although I wish she had the same passion for me as working out, I won't complain about it. I work out too and sometimes we do together so I'd say that is a positive thing in our lives for now. Last night when she let me down again I could see in her eyes that she felt awful. Despite that she is just not up to it, despite being up to a myriad of other activities and that just sucks from my perpespective.


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I think more than anything I'm just disappointed. Is it a DJ to be disappointed in my wife's behavior? She could meet my most important emotional need yet she chooses not to and because of that I spend a significant amount of time on this forum to get through it. Seems like a simple fix from my side of the tracks, but I guess she doesn't see it the same way. Today is day 8 and I will continue to forge ahead by making certain I don't drain her lovebank.


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Are you going to snoop?


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
I think more than anything I'm just disappointed. Is it a DJ to be disappointed in my wife's behavior?

No, your feelings are not a DJ. But it is easy to respond with one, or in some other way that is a love bank withdrawal.

And Dr. Harley did tell me that to tell my wife I am "bothered" when she does not do something is a demand and/or disrespectful judgment, because even though it is an accurate reflection of my feelings, it is guilting her into responding.

The hardest thing I ever did in life was change an attitude of "I'm extremely disappointed" to a non-demanding "I'd really like it if..."


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
[quote=markos] Last night when she let me down again I could see in her eyes that she felt awful. Despite that she is just not up to it, despite being up to a myriad of other activities and that just sucks from my perpespective.

I don't buy the "just not up to it".

For men and sometimes for women
desire -> arousal --> orgasm

for women often
arousal -> desire -> orgasm

In other words, women often need to start having sex before they have the desire for sex.

I think most women in mutually satisfying relationships often agree to sex when it's not something they are "up to" at the moment, but they know it's something their husband really needs. And usually, it ends up being really good for her too (if her husband is smart).

Not sure why your wife isn't willing to do that? That's why I'm thinking maybe it would be a good time for telephone coaching, or maybe chatting with Dr. Harley on his radio show.

And congratulations on remaining in the no lovebuster zone for so long! Keep it up!


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
Last night when she let me down again I could see in her eyes that she felt awful.

That's something to focus on. She really does want to meet your emotional needs. She is just not yet feeling the emotional connection that will make it feel possible for her.

She has before, though, and she will again.

Another thing to focus on, and I have to remind myself of this a lot: there is not necessarily a need to hurry to resolve whatever problem has got me emotional. If I remind myself of that, remind myself that a lot of problems have gone on for awhile and we are working toward solutions but aren't likely to solve them all "right this instant" or "today," I am able to calm down, be more patient, and not act in a way that makes love bank withdrawals and makes it even LESS LIKELY that I will get my needs met.

Impatience has been one of my number one mistakes.


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Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
She could meet my most important emotional need yet she chooses not to and because of that I spend a significant amount of time on this forum to get through it. Seems like a simple fix from my side of the tracks, but I guess she doesn't see it the same way.

A man's perspective on SF is that this could be done, yet is not.

A woman's perspective on SF without romantic love is typically "I just can't do that."

My wife finds it extremely difficult to meet my emotional needs when she does not feel that connection.


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Originally Posted by emilyann
Originally Posted by Hilltopper1972
[quote=markos] Last night when she let me down again I could see in her eyes that she felt awful. Despite that she is just not up to it, despite being up to a myriad of other activities and that just sucks from my perpespective.

I don't buy the "just not up to it".

Wow, thank you for encouraging Hilltopper to judge his wife's perspective.

Maybe husbands should all start dismissing what our wives have to say!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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