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I simply do not agree with telling them about POSOM; This makes absolutely no sense to me. Are you paving the way for his smooth transition into his role as step-father? Do you plan for all of you to be good buddies after the divorce? Why have you not explained to your children that your WW's affair partner is a partner in the death of your family? You're making it really easy for him to slide in and assume a father's role in your children's life. Not good.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I simply do not agree with telling them about POSOM; I know what Dr. Harley says but do not think this is healthy and will not do it. My oldest knows that I do not like him and has asked me why several times. I am honest that I do not like him, but have not told her why. Melo, I would strongly urge you to reconsider this. It is unhealthy to NOT tell her because it confuses her and teaches her that dishonesty is acceptable. She is going to be exposed to the affair and needs to understand - from YOU - what is really going on. You have absolutely no reason to whitewash this affair. That helps no one, most especially your daughter. Your daughter needs to know who the fox in the henhouse is. She needs to know why her family has been destroyed or she will blame you or, worse yet, blame herself. It is lies and adultery that are unhealthy, not the truth. The truth helps people navigate life and children are no different. Illusions do not make children happy or secure. Your DD should be told all about the OM and how her family has been busted up so her mother could mother could pursue her affair. This is pertinent information about her life.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My position on exposure to children has been consistent over the years for a host of reasons: Tell them about the affair as soon as you discover it. The primary reason for this type of exposure is that they should know eventually anyway, even if the marriage is on the road to recovery, because it gives them accurate information about what their mom and dad are going through. If the marriage is headed for recovery, the unfaithful spouse is usually willing to go along with the revelation. But if the affair is still ongoing, or if the recovery is not very solid, the unfaithful spouse will resist the exposure, and become very upset when it's made. Then, it's especially important to expose the affair to the children because it generally speeds up the death of the affair. Affairs don't always die a natural death, but exposure speeds up whatever would have happened without it. The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
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A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. 2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside. Go to 8:40 in this clip: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3694and then it finishes up here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3695
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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This same principle applies to everything in life.
If a child friend is dying of cancer do you explain it to your kids?
If a close relative is an alcoholic do you explain it?
For years my mother in law live with us. She is an alcoholic. She would go on binges and end up in the hospital. She would be sent to rehab. My enabling wife thought it would be inappropriate to explain the reasons to the kids.
So they were always told "grandma is sick "
When she was in rehab the story was "grandma is in school". Ironically, grandma would continue this lie when they visited her. She would say she is going to school and living at school.
When I explained to my children that grandma had a disease called alcoholism and explained how dangerous alcohol was and that te school she was going to was because a judge ordered her to they APPRECIATED the truth.
Up to this date my kids were convinced there was some mystery illness that makes their grandma go to the hospital and "school".
They welcomed and handled the truth.
It's the same with anything. Be honest. You dot have to do it because Dr Harley says to. Being honest is one of the Ten Commandments. Moses lived thousands of years before Dr Harley.
Spouses of alcoholics regularly LIE, make EXCUSES and go to extraordinary measures to cover up (and enable) their alcoholic spouse.
Do you see a similarity? Because I did in my life.
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Thank you HDW and others as you have given me some perspective. I am very honest and want to set an example for my kids but am really struggling with how this may affect my eldest. I may be able to give her more information and still be truthful but need to think on this.
I really appreciate your input on the NC letter. She texted me today and it literally ruined the rest of the day for me. The partial contact is that much worse and I cannot heal with her "around". I will write this same letter so thank you!
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When you tell your kids (and you should) keep it to their level. Tell them that Mommy has a boyfriend and wants to be with him instead of you. Tell them that that's not ok, and not how a marriage should work, that is why the marriage is ending.
They will understand perfectly what you are saying without you badmouthing your ex-wife. Give them an idea of what is going on, but I wouldn't give them all of the details.
My kids know that mommy kissed another boy, and they know that isn't ok. If we divorce (which I don't know what is going to happen at this point) and the other guy comes around, I'll simply point him out as mommy's boyfriend and it will be all over.
Another thing I'm doing is I've started reading Proverbs to my kids. It's amazing how God's wisdom is opening their eyes to how the world works, and how to avoid it. I hope this foundation will help them choose a wife wisely.
Proverbs 5
My son, pay attention to my wisdom,
turn your ear to my words of insight,
2 that you may maintain discretion
and your lips may preserve knowledge.
3 For the lips of the adulterous woman drip honey,
and her speech is smoother than oil;
4 but in the end she is bitter as gall,
sharp as a double-edged sword.
5 Her feet go down to death;
her steps lead straight to the grave.
6 She gives no thought to the way of life;
her paths wander aimlessly, but she does not know it.
7 Now then, my sons, listen to me;
do not turn aside from what I say.
8 Keep to a path far from her,
do not go near the door of her house,
9 lest you lose your honor to others
and your dignity[a] to one who is cruel,
10 lest strangers feast on your wealth
and your toil enrich the house of another.
11 At the end of your life you will groan,
when your flesh and body are spent.
Translation: There are paths in life, and the path down the road with an adulterous woman leads to death as she wonders around aimlessly destroying herself and you with her. Don't go near her or you will end up giving her your wealth when she is bitter and sharp, then you will groan because you didn't listen and avoid her.
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Bottom line, TEACH your kids!!! Don't use them as a tool to attack your spouse, but teach them right and wrong, and be honest with them. If you don't then the lies and cheating will be their teacher.
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Tell them, simple words, for their age and understanding level. Kids can understand how wrong it is without saying they have a bad mom. They will think less of OM and encourage their mom to do the right thing.
Your wife will do or say what-ever it takes to put herself and OM in best light and make you the bad guy. The first explanation is usually the one that is believed the most.
They also need to know that making choices to make ourselves happy and others hurt are not right. It does not take much for kids to understand, they get it better than we do.
dan
ps They may overhear others talking too, let them know the truth from you. You have onthing to be ashamed of.
Last edited by used2bDaniel; 08/06/12 12:46 PM.
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Thank you HDW and others as you have given me some perspective. I am very honest and want to set an example for my kids but am really struggling with how this may affect my eldest. I may be able to give her more information and still be truthful but need to think on this. What does it mean to "give her more information and still be truthful?" Are you suggesting teasing her a little? Playing head games with her? A little trickle truth fun? I agree that might be fun to screw with a kids head like that, but she will REMEMBER YOU DID THAT AND WILL NOT APPRECIATE IT. As long as you refuse to tell your DD the truth, your wife is free to tell her LIES. And believe me, SHE WILL. When I was 4 years old, my wayward father introduced me to his OW. I sensed that this was very wrong but since no adult would validate this feeling, I concluded i must be a stupid girl. I learned to DOUBT my instincts about right and wrong and grew up profoundly morally confused. My mother would not sit me down and teach me right from wrong even though I had been THROWN into a very immoral, sick situation. She did not want to be "judgemental." All this did was cause me to grow up veyr confused. I was able to teach myself right from wrong through books when I was in my 30's. What I just described is PARENTAL NEGLECT to the point of ABUSE. It is the parent's job to teach his child RIGHT FROM WRONG. It is gross dereliction of duty to fail to do so. Your children are going to be told lies about your break up and will be introduced to the OM. The TRUTH will arm them against what they are facing. THAT IS YOUR JOB AS THEIR FATHER!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I may be able to give her more information and still be truthful but need to think on this. It is the lies by omission, aka trickle truth, that come back to haunt you down the road ...
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Thank you all, I really do appreciate your advice and input. However, I am not giving them more than they can handle right now. I'm also not just "winging it" on my own, I am reading and researching the heck out of this and have come to my decision on how to handle it. I am giving my 6 year old simple terms that we are no longer married and mommy does not live here any longer; I will absolutely explain more and tell her the truth as she asks questions. She is already upset at mommy for taking a job and moving out.
She is also aware of POSOM and I have told her that I do not like him; but she gets to make her own choice. Once she asks the why question, then it will evolve. I am constantly reinforcing the truth and will always tell her as such; and told her to come to me with questions and I will always tell her the truth. I am not ashamed and will never lie to them, so call it teasing or trickle truth; but I do not believe in teaching my 6 year old to not like someone in order to create conflict and more anger. This does not mean I support what they are doing or that I welcome being replaced by POSOM.
I've done what I can to stop the A and today I am officially D. I will move on from the anger and pain but cannot continue to purposely create conflict, as it keeps me in a bad place and is only going to hurt my kids.
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Thank you all, I really do appreciate your advice and input. However, I am not giving them more than they can handle right now. I'm also not just "winging it" on my own, I am reading and researching the heck out of this and have come to my decision on how to handle it. I am giving my 6 year old simple terms that we are no longer married and mommy does not live here any longer; I will absolutely explain more and tell her the truth as she asks questions. She is already upset at mommy for taking a job and moving out. In other words, you are lying to her and teaching her to be dishonest. She will also be taught that marriage is cheap and is easily disposable over nothing. Lying to children is not a "simple" term, it is a serious thing that she will not appreciate. By not telling her the truth, you leave her vulnerable and unequipped for the lies your wayward wife will tell her. And believe me, your WW will fill the vacuum with lies to make sure she looks like the good guy and you are the bad guy. She is also aware of POSOM and I have told her that I do not like him; but she gets to make her own choice. She is left to make a discernment WITHOUT THE FACTS. Can you make good decisions when you don't have the truth? Why would you put your own child in that position? She does not have the maturity or judgement to discern on her own that the OM is a bad man who has helped destroy her family, nor the maturity or judgement to discern that adultery is immoral. It is YOUR JOB as a parent to teach her right from wrong. This is gross dereliction of duty and parental NEGLECT. Lets just call it what it is.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I should point out that we have had many affairs abandoned when a heartbroken child addressed her wayward parent to ask WHY? That opportunity should not be passed up. I will move on from the anger and pain but cannot continue to purposely create conflict, as it keeps me in a bad place and is only going to hurt my kids. You avoid conflict at your child's expense. Avoiding conflict in this case means she gets to suffer as a result and will be thrown into her mothers affair ill equipped and vulnerable. For absolutely no better reason that her father wants to avoid conflict. This is what we call "trickle truth." It is cruel to do to adults and children alike.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[ I will move on from the anger and pain but cannot continue to purposely create conflict, as it keeps me in a bad place and is only going to hurt my kids. The problem here of avoiding conflict is you leave it up to your daughter to decide if she "likes" someone or if she "dislikes" their actions. She does not have the maturity to make that decision by herself. She needs your input to help make up her mind. It is easy to see that when mommy is married she shouldn't have a boyfriend and hurt daddy. You can love someone but not like what they do. dan
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