None today or yesterday. Wife doing great as are kids. We decided on Mon and Thu nights at the gym together.

HT, you clearly need a different approach. You are doing a little fiddling around the edges when it will take ripping the weed up by the roots and making a major change. You and your wife are in the habit of neglecting your marriage and you will have no results until you make radical changes. Half measures have availed you nothing in the past and they will avail you nothing in the future.

What is will take is selling your wife on the notion of sitting down with you once a week and scheduling out 20+ hours of REAL UA time. I don't mean counting couch potato time or passing in the hallway on your way to work. But actually hiring babysitters 4 times a week, dressing up and going out.

That is what will make a difference. And you are not able to sell her on that, so my suggestion is that you employ Steve Harley to do this.

Stretching your sessions out to 2 hours ain't going to make any damn difference.

MNG, you know I like you, but this guy needs to focus on MArriage Builders. It is against TOS to refer other posters to non-MB resources because it a) it causes confusion and b) Dr Harley does not endorse other resources.

You and I both know you wouldn't be allowed to post that stuff on his thread so sending him to that thread is just a way to circumvent the TOS. That is disrespectful to the board owners.

I want to keep this poster focused on MArriage Builders as his marriage is in dire straits.

You're right this is a big waste of time. I walked through the door and my wife was out the door to the gym so fast I think I barely even saw her. I'm unhappy because I don't have a great marriage and I'm annoyed that I'm the only one here trying to do something about it, and I'm annoyed that I've been at this a year and a 1/2 and my wife still isn't into me. I really think you are underestimating the level of resentment from my wife if I contact Steve without her blessing however so I won't do that yet. What I am gonna do is handle the babysitting arrangements from here on out. There might be a slight irritation that I make babysitter arrangements without her knowing, but I'll make it like a surprise. Whatever irritation she might have will quickly be erased by being away from the children and spending time with me.

In fact I'd like to hire a Nanny to come each day for a total of 4 hours or so 5 days a week. This way I can get a full 8 hour work day in and not compromise our lives financially. Babysitters are great for watching kids but that is all they bring to the table, or at least the one's we hire. I want a nanny or sitter that will make the kids a sandwich if need be, do a bit of laundry, tidy up the downstairs, do some dishes, and be a special part of our family. I want my wife to not have to get up at 5am if she wants to work out, and she'll be in the morning when the kids get up so we can have breakfast and coffee together and as a family. I prefer that I come home and we take off together to run, cycle, work out, or even just go get coffee or dinner. I don't care what it costs, we'll cut other areas of our budget or I'll just work harder to bring in more business.

That sounds like a great idea! Would she be agreeable to that?

I mentioned it last night and she'll consider it. It didn't come without a snicker comment, "like marriage builders honey?" She offered gratuitous sex last night and I turned it down. I literally would prefer to have none quite frankly. She got defensive about it, baited me, and I reacted again. I can't do this anymore. I can't be the only one on this path no matter how much time we spend together. I explained how serious this subject is to me because honestly I don't think she believes it is.

The truth is my wife is my first choice to have a fabulous relationship with. Second choice is to divorce and pursue love elsewhere. Third choice is what we have now. On that note, I'm sick of hearing buddies who treat their wives like complete [censored] tell me about how much sex they are having. How is it that some wives take daily abuse and sleep with their husbands regularly anyways?

I just filled out a request to speak with Steve. Last night spilled over into this morning and we are both on edge. She rushed out the door to the gym again to start this crazy cycle all over again. It has to change.

How about choosing friends with successful marriages, so you can hear about do-able things that work to create happy families.

Sorry to hear things have degenerated. How are you doing with POJA? You sound like someone who is doing a lot of things you really don't like to do, you sound like you're feeling very justified in feeling angry right now. Are there some things you are doing that you're not enthusiastic about, that you can stop doing today?

What path would that be, Hill? Sounds to me like you're on a pretty ugly path, yourself.

I'm glad you're going to talk to Steve. I like him a lot, and so did my husband.

I think thats a good idea. Steve can hopefully guide you out of this morass. When a situation doesn't change in 2 years, it is time to try something new.

Yep I suggested a complete overhaul of our schedule to my wife. We'll see how she responds. I contacted Steve either way, even if it is just working on my tendency to overreact. If she reacts poorly then I'll let Steve handle it. I can't imagine that spending 4 hours a day together without the kids wouldn't be life changing for us.

G ood idea on calling Steve. I know he's had a lot of success with reluctant spouses. Every wife is different and you can't compare your marriage to others.

My wife and I never had a lack of sex even at the worst of our relationship. It wasn't because my wife was in love with me but because she likes sex, didn't want to be unfaithful,and has never slept with more than one person at a time. Physically the sex was good but not near as fulfilling as it is now that we're in love.

My wife wasn't overly phased by DJs as most are. So we'd fight, say hurtful things, and after calming down, apologize, and for the most part it was over. So I didn't have to go weeks and months without a DJ for things to get better.

On the other hand, we had other really stressful situations that we had to deal with.

Yes I am feeling justified in feeling angry right now. There is no POJA because my wife has cast aside the MB program. One of three things will likely happen:

1. My wife will like my plan to get a sitter 4 hours a day and we'll live happily ever after.
2. My wife will hate my plan or dilly dally and I'll have Steve call her and do his thing so we can live happily ever after.
3. My wife will fight me and Steve and our marriage will deteriorate to the point of separation, divorce, or infidelity.

I like #1 don't you?

What something has to change. I poked the snail and my wife is in withdrawal again. She clammed up and said she'd respond to my email by the end of the day. Historically this means she won't respond at all. I'm glad you understand how I feel. I feel this need for perfection and that I'm chasing some fantasy that'll never materialize. I can stop the DJ's all I want and intend to do so, but if we don't spend enough time together nothing will truly change.

I apologized to my wife for blowing up and told her that I'm so incredibly frustrated that something dramatic has to change. I laid out the sitter 4 hours per day idea and we have a candidate which is a previous sitter that is home for the summer. I'm sad because my wife saw the man she saw last year last night and this morning. I have a tremendous issue controlling my emotions so I'm gonna try and do some relaxation drills and chill out and use my brain before any further damage occurs.

It's tough, Hill. I felt the way you feel more at one point. I remember being at the point where I was packing my stuff to move out and that my wife and I were divorcing. Marriage builders saved our marriage. Luckily my wife was on board with anything that would give us a great marriage. Do keep in mind that it will take a lot of work in the beginning of you do get your wife on board. It ain't easy but it's worth it.

And you have every right to tell your wife you don't want her seeing that guy

Hilltopper, what man??

This is a personal trainer that she used with a group of friends several years ago. She trained with him the other day and I think I read into it a bit much. It turned out that she went to hug him because she hadn't seen him in a long time at his gym and he refused the hug because apparently during Ramadan muslims can't touch a woman of the opposite sex? The internet history was her researching that law out of curiosity. There is nothing there and next time we'll both go to see him after we hire the sitter!

The trainer, Mel.

How did she end up back with this trainer?

Ok, then why did you say you were upset about this?

Also, I would try and find activities where you can meet each others emotional needs. You should be meeting the 4 intimate ENs. What kind of activities can you think of that you both enjoy?