I've been reading hilltopper's thread and would love some advice, but the opposite of what he is going through.

I am the wife who has zero interest in having SF with my H. I love him and I enjoy spending time with him but feel very little emotional connection to him which I believe is why I have no interest in SF.

I've tried to meet his need for SF but as time goes by, I just dread it more and more. I've talked with him about it, but have either been met with "I know I should do more things for you" with no follow through or "That's just not me. What you want is a fairytale."

I dont' think I'm asking for anything crazy just to help with that emotional connection but it does seem like he just can't or won't. So I stopped focusing on what he was not doing and just concentrated on me, but over time, I have come to just dread it.

I've also talked with him about MB principles of EN's and UA time but he isn't interested in discussing it.

I want to desire him. I just do not know what I can do to get to that. What can I do, with the emphasis on I.

I would appreciate any advice, or reading suggestions.

Hey Ruby. Have you seen Dr.Harleys articles on sexual aversions and how to overcome them? You might benefit from reading those. After a while in marriage .. especially if things are not going well .. or you have had fights over SF ... you can develop an aversion to SF.

here is the link to the article i mentioned. There is several other links in the column on the left that pertain to issues that revolve around SF. Like willingness to desire... etc.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html

Hope that helps you.

MNG

edit: Have you done the emotional needs and love busters questionairs? They are great at finding what your top needs are and provide a way to find out and get to work on those issues.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4500_resource.html - questionaires

Rubydo,

So I stopped focusing on what he was not doing and just concentrated on me, but over time, I have come to just dread it.

Have you tried focusing on what H is doing right, what you would miss if he were suddenly gone?

Are you attracted to anyone else or do you fantasize about the wonderful life other couples seem to be living.

And I think you are implying that there are no active or unresolved affairs?

God Bless
Gamma

Dr. Harley explains why this a bad strategy here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2076

Ruby,

According to Dr. Harley, women need two things in order to feel sexual desire for their husband. 1) an emotional connection, 2) the prospect of enjoyment.

You can't get 1) without his cooperation, Ruby. So if he is brushing you off on this vital subject, he is shooting himself in the foot.

You might read this article by Dr. Harley:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html
"How can a husband receive the sex he needs in marriage?"

If you want to solve the problem of desiring him sexually, this problem of him not being interested in meeting your emotional needs can't be ignored or swept under the rug. You need to get a plan to get him on board and involved, because the fundamental principle of Marriage Builders is that everything we do has an effect on our spouse, positive or negative. You can't change your feelings; he will have to do that by his behavior.

By the way, you may commonly see forum posters advising you on strategies to change your own feelings, but Dr. Harley's position is that this kind of strategy cannot work.

Harley discusses how lowering expectations in marriages leads to a loss of romantic love:

here

You posted something similar in 09:
As a practical matter, have you practiced MB? That's something you can begin, emphasis on you. Your husband seems like someone who can be sold on MB, because he wants something that the program provides. How about a few sessions with Steve through the coaching center?

In six years, what have you done to have an MB marriage? It's been three years since you wrote the words quoted above, which you repeated today, nearly verbatim. When did you last approach him about the problem and offer MB as a solution?

Thank you everyone who responded. And thank you for the links!

CWMI, what have I done? I have tried to meet what I think his top EN's are...he only rolls his eyes when I try to get him to tell me what they are so I have tried to figure them out myself. I put this into action and he is as happy as can be! Months go by and I get burned out, I guess because I still do not get my needs met so I pull back. Not in a punishment kind of way but an I need to regroup kind of way. So I jump back in and the cycle repeats but each time I am further and further away from him emotionally and the less and less I want SF

The last time I tried to talk to him about our marrige was about 6 months ago. He is just not interested in talking about it. I've come at from "what can I do for you" and it's always more SF. I've come at from "this is what I would like" and it's always I know I need to step up or that's just not me. Except for wanting more SF, he seems to be just happy where we are. He will not discuss MB. I've asked why and he thinks it just psyco babble bs and we don't need all that mess.

I don't know, maybe it is me. Maybe I am expecting something that is unrealistic or a fantasy. I just read all about couples with this emotional connection, this emotional intimacy and I honestly can not relate. I don't even know what that feels like but I know I want it but maybe what I want isn't realistic. Maybe what I think emotional intimacy is is just wrong.

markos,



I know. I alternate between thinking he doesn't even know what he/we are missing and maybe what I want isn't even realistic.

I don't know how to get him on board. He just isn't interested in working on our marriage other than in ways he is comfortable with which I feel is just the easy stuff, like going on dates, working out, house projects. All of which I have to plan and put into motion.

The deep stuff, the hard stuff, he is not interested in. I will say he is like this with every aspect of his life. He is the most easy going guy. He doesn't let hardly anything stress him out or worry him. He takes life in stride.

Gamma, I do try to focus on what my H does right, but what he does right does not draw me to him in an emotionally intimate way. He is a good dad and has a great work ethic. We do have fun together. And I know all of that is important but it's not enough. Maybe I am just selfish. I honestly do not know.



No, I'm not attracted to anyone else. And the only fantasies I have are about the couples here who are working together to make their marriages incredible.

There are no active affairs on my end and I am assuming none on his either.

What you are longing for--an romantic and passionate marriage--is not unrealistic. It's difficult to attain, though, with a reluctant spouse.

Your ENs are very likely to be Intimate Conversation and Affection. These are the top 2 needs Dr. Harley found to be true for MOST women.

If your husband will meet these two needs of yours, AND you spend 15 hours of UA time together every week, you will be in love again and will want to enjoy SF with your H.

These 15 hours can be on a date and/or working out; spend those 15 hours meeting the top four ENs, avoiding the love busters, making these hours the most enjoyable hours of your week. This part is crucial.

He probably doesn't understand what he is missing by not meeting your needs so that you feel bonded to him.

Changing a habit or building a new one can be tough at first, but after a while it becomes effortless.

I would keep bringing up what you would like in terms of your needs being met--keep it on the front burner. You would be telling him "I would love it if you email me a little love note once a day from work," or "kiss me before we get out of bed," or whatever it is you would like that would show you that he cares about you.

If he is willing, get the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love" and read through it together as a starter.

Rubydoo,

but what he does right does not draw me to him in an emotionally intimate way.

I'm glad you wrote that I think it is a perfectly written expression of the static state of many marriages. I need to focus on this more in my marriage.

And as a companion statement would you say "that what he does wrong repels me from emotional intimacy".

Thanks
God Bless
Gamma

It would depend on what it is he did wrong, but yes there are things that have caused me to distance myself even more.

Yes, intimate conversation and affection are definitely missing and definitely two of my top EN's.



I have for years. I'm to the point where I have stopped asking because it only leads to disappointment and I just don't want any more of that.

I do have the Fall in Love book. He will not read it. He does not even like me reading it. More eye rolls.

ruby, it's interesting that you brought up the possibility of being selfish. I heard Dr. Harley talking about being selfish on an older Marriage Builders radio show just a couple days ago.

Took me a minute to find it, but here is the link to the clip. Listen to this and see what he says:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2217

You'll need to fast-forward to around 7:30 to get to this part.

This is the importance of the intimate emotional needs. Dr. Harley says the four needs intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, sexual fulfillment, pack the most punch and are required for falling in love. In his programs he directs people to spend fifteen hours a week meeting these four needs together, regardless of what they indicate are their "top needs."

You described your husband meeting family commitment, financial support, and recreational companionship. All good needs, but not likely to be your top two intimate emotional needs. (Although one of them is probably one of his intimate emotional needs, recreational companionship.) Those do not deposit massive love units, and no matter how much "focusing" you do on it, you can't change that. Dr. Harley is a clinical psychologist with more than forty years of experience, a background in neurophysiology, operated a successful chain of mental health clinics, and he really knows what he is talking about when he says that our emotional needs are irrational, a product of extremely complex factors including our genetics, our hormones, our upbringing, and other things we don't understand, and they hardwired into us in ways that cannot be changed.

The SF your husband receives will be so much better when you are in love with him. Please disregard the advice to "focus on what he does right," and start coming up with a plan to explain to your husband how vital it is that he meet your emotional needs so you can be in love with him so your marriage will be fulfilling for both of you.

A plan. Yes, I need a plan. I am at a loss as to how to come up with that plan.

A few years ago, I spoke with him about this. I was armed with MB principles, words, terms, etc. He was not interested. He told me what I wanted was not him. It was a fairytale. Guys were just not like what I wanted. When I told him that I was struggling with my desire to have SF with him and explained about my EN's, about my need to be emotionally intimate with him, what he could do to help with that, he actually suggested we stop having SF then. I couldn't believe it. He would rather stop SF then help me.

I'll be honest, that was a big blow.

We didn't stop though. I didn't want that. And SF was the only sign I got from him that he thought of me as special, more than just a buddy. I did mention it to him a few weeks later and he said he was just kidding, but it certainly didn't sound like it at the time.

How do I come up with that plan? How can I make it different than from last time?

You need more than Marriage Builders basic principles. You need to know Dr. Harley's suggestions for wives when their husbands say "I'm just not like that."

Ruby, when do it yourself doesn't work, that is an indicator to get professional help. There are lots of valuable resources here with the counseling and the MB seminar.