Thank you for your help. I agree that there are helpful behaviors and destructive behaviors. I have read the forum as well as several of Harley's books and implemented many ideas.

This was my point with feeling resentment: Although I am healing and find happiness in my life **edit**

My best friend went through an affair 5 years ago. She was the one who recommended the books. She follows the program step-by-step. After the initiAl discovery of her husband's affair, they got it all out and never spoke of it again.... **edit**

Formulas are necessary in math (coming from a math professor). But they should be seen as guidelines in our complex lives.

Byhisgrace is obviously in need of a friend. **edit**

Rachel,

With all due respect, the reason this forum exists is because it is to teach the 'formula' developed by Dr. Harley after decades of experience and repeated cases.

It has been shown over and over here that people who feel the "formula" does not apply to them, never reach true recovery. A big problem that holds people back is that they feel they are "unique" that all situations are "unique" and that while "X" is a great idea... "Y" doesn't apply to them.

Humility teaches us that perhaps we aren't all so special, because there are some very basic common themes amongst all of these affairs.

Are you saying that your friend completely exposed the affair to all including the other person/their spouse, employer if it is relevant, that they have set up and abide by all extraordinary precautions, and consistently achieve 15-20 hours undivided attention per week?

You said, "they got it all out, and never spoke of it again". That, to me, suggests certain critical steps have been skipped.

You also said, " Even if we follow a formula to a tee, it's no guarantee that our spouses will. They have their freedom, and as much as we fill their love buckets, they can choose their paths."

Correct. In which case, Dr. Harley makes it very clear to move into Plan B (separation) or Plan D (divorce). Dr. Harley does not promise to save all marriages - some cannot be saved, that is greatly acknowledged. However, in those instances, there is also a method to deal with non-compliance. For example, if your friend was self-medicating because of stress, I highly doubt she followed Plan A properly for the maximum of 6 weeks.

As someone who is fairly familiar with the "formula", I can see several comments that lead me to believe that it was not followed properly. Since you are a math teacher, surely you understand if you ignore an entire number in an equation because you think "it doesn't apply to you", then you're going to get your own result, not the one in the back of the book.

**edit** I never claimed to be an expert, but my path to recovery has been successful and I thought the next step might be to give some kind words of encouragment to others.

**edit** I wanted a more warm and positive environment to share my experiences and help others.

I wish there was a middle ground: **edit**

Guess I'll keep looking for that place.

**edit** There are a lot of hurting souls out there and they aren't experts, but they are looking for a community who can understand their hurt.

I stand by my opinion, however: formulas are a nice starting point, but we all have a unique path to recovery. This is because their are many variables in human personality.

An example: my wonderful husband has completely regected his affair and continues to dote on me and our three kids. One of the needs he promised to meet for me is to be open and honest. He has been 100% honest (I hope), but it's really hard for him to express himself. He'd rather show me his love instead of telling me. So, he's clearly not following part of his commitment to me (openness), and this is difficult for me to handle. I can't force him to change his entire personality for me, but does this mean I should, as you suggested, make him leave? I think this is where the gray area comes in. I'm not ready to break-up my family because my husband is a private person. It might be a part of the plan I should revise or learn to deal with. **edit** I don't think the complexities of life lend themselves to us being happy ALL the time! That's just unrealistic.

I hope byhisgrace finds her way. I recommend you get a good friend who has been through the gauntlet. Talk with her often.

Hi Rachel. I found MB at about 18 mo after D-Day also. I was searching for something to help me overcome the anger and resentment.



I was stuck in this same place. I thought there was something wrong with me because I couldn't get past the anger and resentment after 18 MONTHS !

MB saved me. There wasn't anything wrong with me except that "I" was my own worst enemy.


How long are you going to punish and throw his past mistakes in his face? Does this this seem like a happy life for either of you? Do you see any end in sight following your own half Rachel / half MB plan? Do you think you should still be feeling this way after 18 months?


I think you have missed some steps and would love to see you start your own thread. What do you have to lose by trying?

Oh dear... I am worried that you still have resentment after almost 2 years. That doesn't seem like a successful recovery.

Hope you stick around and start your own thread.

Rachel, as you indicated yourself, you do not have a formula to overcome resentment so are not in a position to help others in that regard. MB does have a successful formula to overcome resentment so you could stand to learn from others if you would keep an open mind.

Furthermore, people come here to get Marriage Builders advice, not unsuccessful, unprofessional personal opinions. In your case, your advice has not even worked for you, so how can you help others overcome resentment? You can't.

The MB formula is not a "starting point", it is a comprehensive program that has to be worked correctly in order to work. It is not a cafeteria plan.

If you want to learn how to overcome your resentment, you might want to keep an open mind and stay around and listen. You might learn something!

Rachel, I'm not trying to run you off this site.

But this website is specifically set up to assist people using Marriage Builders advice. If you give recommendations which contradict that advice, then unfortunately yes, people are going to speak up against it.

Nobody here thinks Dr. Harley is a god. But we do presume that his program works when we are on his website.

In regards to your husband not meeting a certain need then NO, nobody here is saying for you make him leave.

Our OP's predicament is completely different than yours - her husband is not following the BASIC steps of recovering from an affair (disclosure of OW) which means she CANNOT get past "resentment" because she is not being protected by him. You are dealing with something different, which is a clash of meeting needs after that protection is in place. Or is it? I don't know. I assume you know who the OW was?

That is the problem with messing with the so-called "formula" -> you are applying your own personal philosophies to a situation and ignoring basic steps for her. You told her originally, "have faith, it will come". Well, unfortunately, that is not the step she is at right now. She CANNOT resolve her resentment at this stage until she feels safe. She CANNOT feel safe as she cannot possibly have any extraordinary precautions in place when she has no idea what to protect against.

Please understand, I am not saying this to make you feel bad, but if she continues to feel that she should wait or have faith that the resentment will go away, she may just be enduring further weeks, months, years of limbo.

I don't to derail this thread, but there is a reason that personal philosophies that contradict MB advice is not permitted! Because we are not experts!!!

Rachel, the purpose of the site is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders. It's okay if you aren't interested in that purpose, but if that's the case, you don't have to be here.

We do have a successful plan here, but the path is narrow.


Good grief, Rachel. Agreeing that somebody is right and others are wrong does not mean you are saying that person is a God. What a dramatic and disrespectful reaction. You don't have to agree with everything Dr. Harley says, but this is a discussion site for discussing his principles and plans. Maybe you just wandered in the wrong door?

And for the record, I really HATED many of Dr. Harley's teachings when I first got here. A lot of people do. Quite a few posters here pushed back at the recommendations - but we stuck around because the outcome showed us that it actually worked.

One thing Dr. Harley says about this "narrow path" to recovery is that if you pick and choose the parts you want, and alter the plan, it won't work.


Nobody is asking anyone to assume anything on blind faith. Dr. Harley's experience has been that in every marriage where both husband and wife follow his program, recovery happens, resentment fades, the feeling of romantic love is restored. Many couples here have done that.

The idea is not "assume that this will work." The idea is "It worked for many people. Try it yourself and see."

Of course, if you alter the plan, then what you've really tried is something else.


Yes, that is absolutely correct. The plan doesn't work unless both husband and wife follow it.


But nobody is saying that. The plan doesn't work unless both husband and wife follow it.

In your case, you are not telling us you followed the plan; you are telling us you took some ideas from it and mixed with your own ideas. You are telling us you didn't follow Dr. Harley's steps, but only used it as a general guide for inspiration.

That's okay, it's your life to live. But if you bake a cake and put in mushrooms instead of eggs like the recipe says, and substitute brown sugar for white, that doesn't exactly prove that the recipe doesn't work.


Yes, that is correct, and nobody is saying that.


I like the elegance of your simple insult that the people here don't care about Byhisgrace and don't want to be her friend. That's really impressive how you slipped that in there. It's not nice, but it's impressive.

Sometimes friends tell people things they don't want to hear, because they need to hear it.


But how would you know since you haven't tried it?

"I wish there was a middle ground: a place where you could find a friend, but not tout Dr. H (with all due respect, because you have helped me) as a sort of God. "

The bottom line is that Dr Harley knows how to save marriages and we don't. And that is what we are here for, to hear Dr Harley's methods. We know how to screw up our marriages, we don't know how to fix them. Just keep in mind what the purpose of the forum is.

Like Harley says, "Sometimes you may hear alternative opinions that conflict with Dr. Harley's Ten Basic Concepts. These are often raised by those who have not solved their own marital problems, but still feel they are qualified to advise others. When this happens you can expect some members to explain why their approach won't work, and why Marriage Builders� offers a better solution. There are many who are offended when that happens, but please keep in mind that the ultimate purpose of this Forum is to discuss and learn Marriage Builders� concepts. "

You can set up a place to discuss whatever you like in the way you like. It's a big internet.

This place was set up to discuss Marriage Builders, and we like it that way.

Rach - Either you failed to read the "rules", or your reading comprehension needs some work.

Here:


Here is the *** LINK *** to the original.

YOU are WELCOME !!!

I've been reading all the posts and wondering how to respond.
I've read and re read and I believe that I've been able to see points in both perspectives.Rachels on the one side and all the other posts on the other.

Yes Rachel I need a friend to talk to and unburden myself,someone who will encourage me to go on and keep strong. However 10 years ago when I first learned of my husbands inappropriate boundaries with a coworker I was counselled by our pastors who told me I should forgive and forget.That I should have faith even tough I would make myself vulnerable.

I never brought up that IB /EAto my husband even though there was no healing.come to think of it the whole thing might have been continuing on after DD. because I simply decided that I was going to trust the Lord to change him. I still do trust and Love the Lord although I don't know why he has put me in this situation again.We went through a lot together and I kept on because of my belief that I should stand by him as a wife.


when I learned of his EA. spanning over 4 Years I realised that I had trusted too much .

my first instinct was to move out but unfortunately I was financially dependent on him and the kids needed a family. I knew I couldn't go down the same path I went down previously.something tangible had to happen.

When I found MB I felt that this was the was to go because being a process oriented person I could see that if the program was followed it had a good chance of working.

My husband said he was keen to start so we did.Now I realise that even though a lot of you are saying follow the program and it will work,I accept that,Rachel is also saying that the partner also needs to be on board.in my case I have a husband who seems to be on board but is really not following the program despite the fact that we have gone through the course together.Does he not understand it? does he not want to do it? I don't know.

I have realised that the resentment is not going away because the program is not being properly followed.BUT what can I do any more to make my husband follow them program.

The program is great but like Rachel says how do you control all the variables.For Rachel it's having faith and moving on. for me since I have already done that before I need something else.

I am also thinking now that maybe moving on to planB or planD is the next step?

I'm really glad that I am able to communicate with all of you, I've learnt a lot of things from all the posts,

Onlybyhisgrace

OBHG, this is something I see frequently on this board, and I think it's a misunderstanding of God's intentions for us. God gave us free will - that means you have it and your husband has it. It is a gift to us. If God wanted to control us we wouldn't have that, and would proceed through life, lock-step, doing HIS will. He doesn't want that. It would be contrary to God's Plan to 'change' your husband if your husband does not want to change. That would be breaking the covenant of free will that He has with your husband.

It also puzzles me that pastors who are supposed to counsel simply tell the person they're counselling to 'have faith' when they could be giving them so much more information to control their own life - like the information that is found on this site for free. Having faith is a good thing, in many cases. I have faith that the sun will rise. I have faith that God is with me in good times and bad. I have faith that God will walk with me on my path through this life and that my vision will be clearer when He is with me, so that I will be conscious of opportunities that come my way. It is no coincidence that I am on a site that has helped save my marriage. And it is no coincidence that YOU are, either. Think about that.

You cannot "control" the variables. You can only control yourself.

Marital bliss,I agree with you completely about lay counsellors who don't seem to understand the dynamics of surviving an affair.i don't mean this disrespectfully but I've realised that they sometimes just delay the problem instead of finding a solution.

When you say you can only control yourself are you speaking in terms of me following /leading the program regardless of how I feel? Not quite sure what more I can actually do

Onlybyhisgrace

We can only control ourselves in the following manners (for example):
We can avoid making Love Busters
We can avoid enabling self destructing acts of our loved ones
We can be polite and loving and responsible.

I know that some counselors may say to trust God and our troops do pray before marching into battle but they don't march into battle with blindfolds on and no weapons in their hands.

HDW said it well. You can learn much on this site. You can make yourself the best person you can be. (Some call that 'cleaning up your side of the street'.)

There is no guarantee that your marriage will be saved by doing these things. But you will come out a better person than you went in.

It's doing more than just 'having faith'.