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#2650798 07/28/12 04:27 PM
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Asked WH to take lie detector test..he came clean about a shared kiss almost 20 yrs ago and a SA (one night stand) about 12 years ago. This on top of 2 EA I am left with what next. He took off, took his gun and said he could never rebuild trust etc. or make me happy so why bother. I found him after calling his parents. I would never want him to harm himself over anything! I am so lost. He still wants do deflect some of the blame on me for what i did or didn't do. We both agree we want the marriage to work but I don't know where to go from here. He said he would take the lie detector test but says fearful he will fail it..which makes me think there is more though he says no. He says the internet porn stuff etc might impact his answers. He sees it as punishment. He sees me telling our grown children the same way (which I have not done)..I think that is what he is most fearful of them losing love for him. It has been about 5 weeks since DD (2nd EA) and I am exhausted..physically and mentally. The constant snooping, imagining, emotional up/downs. We experienced a lot of HB..which confused me but still I liked the connection. We were working towards more time together etc...now that I know about the SA I just feel sick. I let myself be vulnerable to him..to get kicked down harder. Not sure how I will have sex with him again. How do I make him see a future. How??

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bewildered, I would focus on YOUR plan and let him either get on board with you or move forward. Your plan should never be contingent upon him or his drama.

First off, expose the affairs to your kids and your close family. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. Go to your husband and give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness and give you just compensation. If he won't agree to those things, then you should separate.

I am very concerned about his sincerity because of his reaction to exposure. His reaction to the potential exposure to your children tells me he is not serious. However, exposing to the kids and making sure your husband knows will help wake up your husband - perhaps enough for him to become willing to work on the marriage.

The fact that he is afraid of the polygraph indicates he is hiding much more. I suspect he has had a secret second life for a very long time, wouldn't you?

How has he been able to carry on these affairs? Does he travel without you?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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If you can swing it, the MArriage Builders program would be very effective at turning your marriage around. They assign you a coach and you have daily access to Dr Harley. They guide you through a year long program that transforms your marriage. Many of us here have used this program and it made an amazing difference. That progam runs about $1000. There are other ways to do this for less money, but that is the best way.

I would make it a condition that he go through this program. Here is what it takes to recover:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

<snip>

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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We told our children last night. He was not in agreement to do it but did it anyway. It hurt them a lot so I hope it was the right thing since I don't believe the EA has continued. He has said to schedule the poly soon.. get it over with so we can move forward. I hope there isn't anymore PA or EA..not sure if I would want to continue if there are. I wonder if everyone wanted to know of past affairs...maybe what you don't know won't hurt you. Not sure I want to know more.

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Originally Posted by bewildered123
I wonder if everyone wanted to know of past affairs...maybe what you don't know won't hurt you. Not sure I want to know more.

bewildered, give your kids a hug for me. frown It is so hard to tell kids, but it must be done. To give them false explanations for the source of tension in their lives teaches them to be dishonest. This is vital information about their lives that they need to know. It helps your husband too, for them to know. He can remember their little faces the next time he is tempted to commit adultery.

What you don't know DOES hurt you when it comes to adultery. For example, what if one of his past skanks is still in your lives? You can't very well protect yourself if you don't know. Most BS' wonder and wonder for YEARS when they don't have the full truth. THEY NEVER GET PAST IT. We had a man come on the board last week who has been wondering for 30 years! Do you want that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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No.I don't want to wonder about it. I am struggling with maintaning my resolve to try and work this out. I love him but because of the years of fighting, threats of leaving (on his part) and expressing how unhappy he has been with my treatment of him .. and now the infidelity..I am tired of feeling like who I am is not enough. My girls were shocked about the infidelity but not about the state of our marriage..they have been witness far too much. We have done wrong by them by not addressing issues early on. We stayed together for years I think more so for the kids but in the end they might have been better off with us not together IDK. I am scared of the poly..I pray there are no more secrets. I know that the source of his unhappiness has a lot to do with how he feels like a failure in life (career etc.)..but I think he transferred all that onto me and our relationship. So many years of crap...it seems almost impossible. I am trying to stay positive and not be in my head too much..it's not a good place. I appreciate all the advice.

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So are you doing the poly? If so when?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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The MB program will work if both spouses are willing to do it wholeheartedly.
I think it's a good sign that he is taking these polygraph tests.
You can only judge actions, not try to figure out thinking of others.

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I have not scheduled the poly yet.. but I do plan to go through with it. I have to figure out what to ask, how to ask. He read about one guy who the result showed deceit but he swore he never cheated..i.e. false negative. I am just working up the nerve to call and make the appt. Any suggestions on questions? We are considering the MB progam. Does is address affairs, dealing with past issues etc.

I am trying hard to trust what he says but like you said HDW his actions are what I need to look at.

Any threads, suggesions on how to re-establish sexual intimacy..It really almost makes me sick to think about it at this point because I keep seeing him in my head with this faceless person. Do I need to at this point to meet his needs?


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Are you in the US? Start here: http://www.polygraph.org/members/directory

The examiner will talk with you and find out what you want to know, and they will design the questions to work with the test.

Once he has come completely clean and is willing to do what it takes to repair the marriage, MB is your very best resource for doing that. It does NOT 'deal with past issues'--it is a behavior-based program to restore romantic love. The only 'dealing with past issues' that would happen would be, say, your H has typically done some quite hurtful behaviors to you in the past, like taking off on week-long trips with the boys. the 'dealing with it' would be>>>STOP IT. That's all. It's a very simplified program with zero naval-gazing or 'understanding'. It's just do, or do not.


Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.
(Oscar Wilde)
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Here's a thread that some posters have added their questions.
Polygraph Testing


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I was surprised to hear the audio from Dr. Harley on polygraph..seems more advocated by forum than him..but I think I will proceed. I am unsure of the number of questions allowed but here is what I have so far. Please let me know your thoughts, if there is anything key I am missing or things I shouldn't include. I did read that the fewer the questions the more accurate. Key (OW#1 -shared kiss (23yrs ago), OW#2 - EA (flirting, inappropriate communication)13 yrs ago, OW#3 PA (one night stand-12 yrs ago) OW#4-EA (deeper EA-told her he loved her and admits would have progressed to PA if had opportunity/not stopped-6/2012) - wow soooo sickening)

1. Has there been any contact (phone, email, text message, voice mail) to OW#4 since the June 27th when she contact you after repeated text messages from me.
2. Have you had any physical contact with OW#4(hold hands, hug, kiss, sex)
3. Are you in love with OW#4
4. With the exception of the few delivers and the lunch at sonic have you been in the physical presence of OW#4?
5. Did you discuss with OW#4 your desire to leave our marriage
6. Have you engaged in chat sites online that included discussion of sexual acts
7. Have you expressed an interest to be involved in a relationship (physical/emotional) to any other women beside OW#1, OW#2, OW#3, OW#4
8. Have you had any other sexual contact that you have participated in (kissing, fondling, intercourse, oral sex) with any other women since our marriage besides OW#1, OW#2, OW#3, OW#4

I cannot believe this is me,my life :((

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bewildered, most of the benefit of a polygraph comes from getting information from them BEFORE the test. You don't tell them what questions you will be asking, but tell him you are giving him an amnesty period to come clean BEFORE the test but that you fully expect him to pass the test.

Hand him the list of questions a couple of days before the test and tell him you want the full truth NOW and you will test his honesty at the polygraph.

The reason Dr Harley isn't as excited as the forum about polygraphs is because he has not seen the great results from confessions BEFORE the test. It is AMAZING how many waywards spill their guts before the test. Most people do not like to flunk the test so they are inclined to spill it all beforehand.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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1. Sounds confusing, you might want to simplify that somehow
3. In my experience most polygraphers won't ask a question based on feelings, because that can be interpreted differently from one person to another. They want to stick to the tangibles.

Writing things on paper is an eye opening moment, for sure. I had to reread my first post to my own thread several times because I couldn't believe it was really my life.

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I have seen people give their spouse a list of questions that is much longer and more in depth BEFORE the poly, than the one that will actually be asked at the poly.

Your WS doesn't need to know, for instance, that there will only be 3-5 questions allowed on the test, or that you will not be permitted to ask about emotion. It may be an opportunity to get more information before the test.

However, even if you get information before the test, follow through with it anyway. It is also common for someone to give a portion of the truth to make their spouse feel like they confessed all, to get out of giving the whole truth at the poly.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
I have seen people give their spouse a list of questions that is much longer and more in depth BEFORE the poly, than the one that will actually be asked at the poly.

Your WS doesn't need to know, for instance, that there will only be 3-5 questions allowed on the test, or that you will not be permitted to ask about emotion. It may be an opportunity to get more information before the test.

However, even if you get information before the test, follow through with it anyway. It is also common for someone to give a portion of the truth to make their spouse feel like they confessed all, to get out of giving the whole truth at the poly.

EXACTLY! She needs to write out all of her questions NOW and then after she has the confession, she can determine which 3 questions she wants to ask during the polygraph.

And it is important to follow through on the test even if you do get the confession for the reasons given by unwritten.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
bewildered, most of the benefit of a polygraph comes from getting information from them BEFORE the test. You don't tell them what questions you will be asking, but tell him you are giving him an amnesty period to come clean BEFORE the test but that you fully expect him to pass the test.

Hand him the list of questions a couple of days before the test and tell him you want the full truth NOW and you will test his honesty at the polygraph.

The reason Dr Harley isn't as excited as the forum about polygraphs is because he has not seen the great results from confessions BEFORE the test. It is AMAZING how many waywards spill their guts before the test. Most people do not like to flunk the test so they are inclined to spill it all beforehand.
ALSO you hear in that clip that Dr. Harley says that he hears from the forum of the fantastic results posters get from the polygraphs and from that very evidence he says you should proceed with the poly.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.




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