Does she have opposite sex friendships? Does she flirt with men?

THG-

Stinks youre here. The fact that youre still with her after 2 years bodes well.

Our wives made a stinking poop sandwich for us to eat everyday, forever. Thats how its appears to be until you decide to put what she did in the past. Easier said than done, I know.

There is a clear path you need to take and you seem to have been on that path but are making classic missteps:

1. You cannot keep asking about the affair. This does nothing but restart the lousy feelings and you really are at day 1 after finding out every time you bring it up. Face it, she did it and nothing you can do will make it not have happened.

2. You must establish a list of things she is to be doing to give you complete security that this will not happen again. This is list is to include things to compensate for the hurt she put on you. That may include anything from more domestic support (a cleaner house) to more action in the sack. Whatever you are lacking and need to be happy. She needs to let you know what she wants to be happy from you.

3. Transparency. You are to know every thing she does, where she is, who she speaks to, emails, texts, etc. Especially since you feel there may be history of selfishness and promiscuity.

The truth is this, my friend, anything less than complete, utter, and unambiguous remorse for destroying all that she claims to love is unacceptible.

This last thing has been the hallmark of my recovery. As I sometimes drive by the office my wife and her guy worked at (and the scene of countless encounters), or the restaurants they went to, or hotel they banged at, I think of the crushed, highly apologetic, and desperate for my acceptance woman I married.

This is the life she created.

I know it seems difficult to stop talking about the A, society around us supports bringing up negative past experiences over and over again. But this is not healthy, for your M or for you. If you have all of your questions answered, what is the purpose of this? It certainly will not help to build your M, and it won't do anything for you but to make you relive the traumatic things over and over again.

I like to write, and for many years I wrote my feelings out toward my H, my many distrusts, feelings towards his trickle truthing, feelings after DDay. There are some pretty emotional documents sitting out on my computer! Some days when I am at a low, I think about bringing them up and rereading something. To relive it? To make sure I don't forget how bad he hurt me? I don't even think about some of that now, but if I were to bring something up and read it, I would think, OH YA, I forgot about how hurt I was by this! And be hurt all over again. Why would I want to do that to myself?

Going to a support group would offer you the same thing, the ability to hash and rehash the details that caused you the most pain. Hash them, and then move on to a better future.

But I read backwards and see that you do not feel like you have all the information about the A. You do not feel like she has been O&H with you about the details. So, that is the reason you are rehashing things with her. You can't move on without O&H about the details.

I am perplexed though that she has passed a poly and you still feel like she is hiding things. I generally say 'trust your instinct' but I also know after my WH passed a poly I would sometimes think, 'he isn't being honest about that' and then remember he passed it on a poly, and then I knew it was just ME and my (rightful) lack of trust trying to sabotage everything he said or did. Is this the case with you?

You said she passed the 3 questions on the poly, do you not feel you asked the right questions? You can always go back and take another poly with different questions, if this is the case.

Have you read SAA and are you following the MB program?

Again, has she done a NC letter, or does she still have contact with the OM? Has she established EP's to prevent her from A's in the future and make you feel secure in your M?

What recovery plan are you following?

If you just move on and try to forgive and forget, that is never going to happen.

Has she given up the job now?

Recovery cannot even begin if the affair partners continue to work together. Dr. Harley says this cannot be skipped or compromised on.

From the How to Survive an Affair chapter in His Needs, Her Needs:
HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE

Most marriages are going to have to move to another city or state to recover from an affair. One prime reason for this is to eliminate contact or the potential for contact between the affair partners. But beyond that, moving is often necessary just to eliminate the triggers. Just living in the same house you lived in at the time can trigger you.

If your wife is not willing to give up working with the other man, then recovery has not begun.

Can you be more specific? What information do you think you are lacking?

Dr. Harley says to focus on information about the circumstances of the affair so that you can change the circumstances and prevent another affair. Only then can you be secure enough to recover. So for example, who was it, how and where did they meet, how did they communicate, etc.

Does she have opposite sex friendships? Does she flirt with men?

She had one close friend that works at her former company. I told her that the continued communication with that friend was a trigger for me and she reluctantly has discontinued communication with her.

April 2011, while I was in California on business another man (sports-dad) from the office called on his was home from a major league baseball game and eventually invited himself to our house. That makes me wonder how she acts towards other men when I am not around.

The truth is this, my friend, anything less than complete, utter, and unambiguous remorse for destroying all that she claims to love is unacceptible.

My ww does not feel guilt. That much I know. From day one to early July she has made it clear that my poor behavior caused the affair. That attitude does not spell remourse.

Going to a support group would offer you the same thing, the ability to hash and rehash the details that caused you the most pain. Hash them, and then move on to a better future.

Are you suggesting that I go to a support group? How do you hash something once and move forward? My wife works less than a mile from the OG's house. We drove home Saturday night from an outdoor play and all I could think about was how she gave the OG oral sex on the way home from a charity golf outing. I get blue and the relationship sours.

Can you be more specific? What information do you think you are lacking?

WW still will not tell her mother that she had a small party at their house when she was 16 years old. She is hyper sensitive to criticism. She told me early on that the two of them would schedule a fake meeting and leave the office together. But when she explained the entire affair and the three times they were together that did not support the - fake meeting statement. All of a sudden the fake meeting comment was a fluke. She didn't say that...

So for example, who was it, how and where did they meet, how did they communicate, etc.

It was the owners son (35 yrs old) at the company she worked for. She lost 30 lbs (May 2010) and he started paying her compliments. In June they were running company cars into the shop and by July they were making out in the elevator. Eventually she met him .25 miles from office at his mobile home and had sex. Then again in his office (not sure when - she doesn't remember) and then again following a charity golf outing in mid-August. She went on the pill and I found out in mid-Oct. But that is the only three times she admits to.

I hate to tell you this, THG, but Dr. Harley says complete remorse is not typical for a wayward wife, at least not early on. After she is in love with her husband again she will see what she did in a much more realistic light and realize how horrible it was to risk something so wonderful, but usually that does not come up front.

Many people recover without this, but many betrayed husbands prevent recovery by demanding it up front.

So really you have a decision to make: knowing that your wife is not likely to feel remorse until AFTER she is in love with you again, if ever, are you willing to try for recovery, or do you need to end your marriage?

I would encourage you to consider trying, especially if the two of you have children together, but you must understand that waiting for her to experience remorse first will be a non-starter, and you will never recover that way.

Your wife cannot give you just compensation if you will not engage in the program of recovery with her. The outcome of just compensation is the marriage that BOTH of you always wanted. It is not something that hurts her; it is something that delights and heals BOTH of you.

Please watch this 30-minute video by Dr. Harley on infidelity. He spells out a plan for recovery from infidelity. Here

Also, get the book Surviving an Affair.

By the way, Harley says most wives do not feel remorse for an affair but states recovery is still possible with a change of actions. She should own her responsibility, that she is 100% responsible for her decision to have an A, even though the conditions of the marriage are shared.

MB says "There are always reasons for an A, but there are never excuses."

The steps to recovery:

1.) No contact for life with AP (which may mean moving from your area where you live and work in close proximity to AP.

2.) Extraordinary Precautions for life to avoid the possibility of another affair

3.) Transparency and integrated lifestyle (shared emails, passwords, phones, bank account records, accounting for time)

4.) Building a romantic and passionate marriage

Dr. Harley doesn't say this. It is entirely possible that a WW will not feel remorse to that degree, if at all, and yet the marriage still recovers. Remorse is not a requirement for recovery.

Im sorry. This is very true.

Many people will have a lot of work to get the 'fog' out of their spouses heads. Which seems to be your situation.

I should have said that I was lucky enough to have the remorseful wife. Very often, more often than not on this site, a BS must go thru various steps to lift the fog. I simply said to my wife that if she indeed wanted to save this marriage, I will not accept a minute of withdrawal, any mention of his name, anything but the list of things I wanted.

Hers was a long term affair where any lingering 'love' ended well before she could or even wanted to extract herself from the relationship. It was about an easy lifestyle she needed to maintain.

So when she was caught by the most ridiculous thing ever, my wife was well ready for it to be over. Doenst make anything Im going thru easier. Just that she was able to take all responsibility and start recovery and making me whole day 1 after dday.

I think you should actually act like you just found out about her affair. Expose it to whoever can snap her out delusion. Then, you are to get every tidbit of information you need to move forward from her about the a. After this, you dont ask about it anymore.

You then craft a list of ENs you need and things to keep you secure that she will not be seeking add'l affairs.

You really never followed a plan for recovery so i think you should start today. The people here will help with your next steps and brutal mood swings.

Last thing, the beauty of MB is you will know in due time if this marriage is salvagable.

But there's a very important benchmark in there. Over and over on the radio show, Dr. Harley has said that if after 2 years of applying the program to the best of your ability your marriage is not "better than it has ever been", then it's probably time to hang up your cleats and plan to divorce. The chance of your marriage recovering after that time is slim to none.

There are a few -- very few -- success stories even after that kind of event. The couple eventually begins dating again, agrees to "buyer" rules in their relationship rather than "renter" or "freeloader" rules, and has a successful marriage. But basically that's extremely unlikely if you've been attempting to recover the marriage for two years and things aren't better than they've ever been.

I was referring to this comment, not suggesting you seek a support group but actually suggesting you get the details you need from your WW and then stop discussing the A altogether.

I've written about this extensively before, but overwhelmingly unfaithful wives blame their husbands for their affairs. Unfaithful husbands, on the other hand, tend to blame themselves.

This is the primary reason why Dr. Harley has a double-standard on recovery. If the husband was unfaithful, utter remorse is a prerequisite to recovery. If the wife was unfaithful, it is not; her remorse will typically come with time and a restoration of her love for you, and it will often be a remorse of the "I'm sorry that I hurt you" variety, not an "I'm sorry for my actions" variety.

Which is exactly where I am. Truthfully, it's enough to have our love & marriage restored. I am basically happy three years later, though occasional triggers occur and I'd really like to move out of this house.

There are a few -- very few -- success stories even after that kind of event. The couple eventually begins dating again, agrees to "buyer" rules in their relationship rather than "renter" or "freeloader" rules, and has a successful marriage. But basically that's extremely unlikely if you've been attempting to recover the marriage for two years and things aren't better than they've ever been.


We go through periods of time 10 - 15 days when we are truly enjoying each other and moving forward. She is following the plan and being proactive. Then the wheels fall off the bus. I don't know why for sure. I get this feeling like, man it is good to be alive even though I lived through this terrible accident and then two weeks later I am focused on the fact that my life will never be the same (ie., lost a limb).

I will take a look at some of the clips / posts recommended above.