It sounds to me like your WW refuses to take responsibility for the A.

I would say this is a roadblock, because without it I know I would feel unsafe about the same situation occurring in the future.

Again, what recovery plan are you following? Have you ever thought about doing the MB online program or counseling with the Harleys?

many betrayed husbands prevent recovery by demanding it up front.


How do you ever get on solid ground to rebuild your marriage if your spouse is not truly remorseful and accept responsibility for the affair, instead of blaming the BS?

Is it because you keep getting triggered and keep bringing up the affair?

I'd adjust this statement to "Remorse is not a prerequisite to recovery". If my spouse felt no remorse for the situation or how her actions affected me two years into recovery after her love for me was restored, I'd have said it was time to divorce & find a more empathetic or compassionate spouse.

Remorse from an unfaithful wife comes, in time, if love is restored, but usually not in exactly the form a betrayed husband desires. As long as the betrayed husband's love for his wife is restored also, that is usually enough.

Here's a radio clip of Dr. Harley discussing women and apologies:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2220

(You'll have to fast forward a bit; the first part of the clip is finishing up talking about the previous caller, whose husband has manic psychosis. Fascinating, but not relevant here.)

It turns out women really tend to blame their husbands for lots of things, and they really seem to be less likely to apologize.

But it also turns out you can have a completely happy marriage if you focus on how to make things nice now.

what recovery plan are you following? Have you ever thought about doing the MB online program or counseling with the Harleys?

We have been working with Steve Harley for about 18 months. At first she would sit with her arms crossed and barely speak a word. Now she still hates the calls but she is engaged in the conversations.

This happened to me pretty consistently for the first 6 months of recovery once we began applying the MB program in earnest. We had a few incidents after that, but they were trivially resolved by recognizing the conversation had become unsafe and revisiting it when both of us were well-rested and prepared to keep the negotiation pleasant and safe.

Coincidentally, 6 months into recovery is when I found the final cache of photographs my wife had been keeping of the OM and destroyed them. It also marks the time when we met with Jennifer Harley Chalmers and began following her advice to never, ever bring up the affair again for any reason.

If your wife has items or anything stored that reminds her of her affair, that keeps her very foggy. Have you purged everything from your home that might remind her of her infidelity?

You quit playing the blame game, you quit talking about the affair, and you focus on the plan for recovery.

Here is the plan for recovery in a nutshell:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

The Rule of Protection
The Rule of Care
The Rule of Time
The Rule of Honesty

Those are the headings; read the plan for details.

None of those is going to require you to sort out what happened in the past. They are all about changing your present and your future. The only question is, are both of you on board with doing what it takes to recover? She can be completely on board with that even if she is not expressing remorse.

Goodness, that's a lot of Steve Harley calls! Has she been doing the assignments? Have you been doing the assignments?

But it also turns out you can have a completely happy marriage if you focus on how to make things nice now.


How do you stay focused and not let the images of the past come forward and bring you down today? It helps when I clearly see her moving forward and working at our recovery. But, it is very difficult to stay in the moment. How do you do that? Reminders of the affair are everywhere. You drive past the driving range where they worked on her swing before the golf outing, our young adult children (21 and 23) wonder why we didn't go to Dave Matthews this summer, because she was texting the OG while we were driving home together from the concert. How do you erase the images from your mind?

Here's the thing, THG: your feelings do not have to dictate your actions.

Marriage Builders is a plan for you to do some things that do not feel natural, for a while, in order that the eventual result will be a lifestyle that leads to good feelings and happiness, at which point in time the things you are doing feel natural.

Your problem seems to be that you are not doing the actions. You have to do them. You have to eliminate triggers, for example. You have to not bring up the affair.

There is no rule that says "I feel bad, so I need to talk to my wife about the affair." There's nothing in your brain that requires you to keep bringing up the affair. JUST STOP DOING IT. Next time you feel bad, do something else other than BRINGING UP THE AFFAIR. "How do you do that?" is not a sensible question. The only question is, will you decide to do this or not?

Goodness, that's a lot of Steve Harley calls! Has she been doing the assignments? Have you been doing the assignments?


The advice at this point is to learn how to change the channel. How have others learned how to change the channel?

I am not sure what that means. Maybe you need to read Doormat_No_More's postings about memories and triggers.

But I think you also need to move or change your driving route, since you are being triggered every day. As MelodyLane said, the main problem seems to be your environment constantly reminding you of the affair.

Perhaps he is telling you what we are telling you: when you feel bad, DON'T BRING UP THE AFFAIR. Because when you are talking about the affair, you are stepping off of the path that leads to recovery.

You are dwelling on the past. You cannot change the past. Im concerned of the amount of MB you have invested in and has not helped at least minimize her past. This means she is not on board.

Remorse may not be required for you, but it was for me.

I may have given MB a go for a short period of time but if I was miserable (like you) I would have set a time limit for being miserable with her.

I get the images. I get every bit of what you are going thru. All of us do. The best (and perhaps only) way to reduce their impact is to have a wife meeting all of you needs and having a commitment to your future together. Without that, you got that same texting her boyfriend while she was with you, oraling him in the golf cart, making out in the car woman you had before.

Maybe you'll read my threads at some point, but my wife got caught when her boyfriend left his cell phone around and his wife found a dozen videos of my wife giving him a bj. Nice. I got images too, my friend. Lots o' images.

My wife has done nothing but been with me since the minute OMW called to let me know what she just saw. You need to get yours with you. With bells on.

Or it means his environment keeps triggering him and he keeps bring up the affair.

The Rule of Protection
The Rule of Care
The Rule of Time
The Rule of Honesty


Since the adrenaline has worn off and I have returned to a more normal life I find it difficult to show affection to my ww. I remember the time when she talked about taking her golf clubs to work and visiting the driving range. Remember this is someone who HATED golf until invited to the charity golf outing. I remember saying - Well I will take my clubs and meet you at the driving range. Well silly me she was planning to meet him there. So while she still blames me for the affair, I recall all of the times I was there for her, but sent packing.

So the advice is to simply stop thinking about these things. It is not a question of wanting to it is a question of just simply making yourself stop thinking about the hurt, pain, and suffering. Is that the suggestion?

THG, I'm pretty sure the advice is to move, or otherwise eliminate triggers (you seem to be ignoring this, or at least I haven't seen a response) , and then to stop talking about it even if you think about it.

You realize that "eliminate triggers" doesn't mean "stop thinking about it," right? It means quit exposing yourself to the triggers. For example, stop driving past places where they went in their affair. You can't live four blocks away from the other man's place of business. Etc.

THG, this is the best post that has been made to you, with the best advice:


"Eliminate triggers" means to get them out of your environment. You are finding yourself unable to follow the plan of recovery (rules like not dwelling on the affair any more) because of triggers in your environment.

Im 15 months passed learning of my wife's LTA. I have hundreds of "I remember when she..." as well. Its a losers games. I have widdled all those I remember whens down to one, "I remember when she left every morning looking adorable to go to 'work' with him". Guess what? after all that time with him, she's with me today, not him.

It has taken some time and a lots of beat downs by the poster here but I learned to stop the loser's game. Cant win it.

There is a sorely missed poster with lots of positive vibes name Celtic Voyager who hammered home one truism to me: "I won, she chose me."

At a certain point someone here will ask you, WHAT DO YOU WANT?. So I'll do it.