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Yes thank you.
However nothing further will be posted from me or my husband on this site at his request and my agreement. So NeverGuessed was right? You were responsible for the "brood of vipers" statement? About your expectations of us on a Christian site: it wasn't very Christian when you were touching another man's penis and taking photographs of it, then lying to your H was it? How is what we advised him "un-Christian" after that? We will accept your apology. We will also help you recovery your marriage if you ask for help.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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I love my husband, and have loved him for 15 years since we met as young people. Our road to where we are now has been nothing if not rocky, but throughout all of these events we have continued to love one another although I admit at times respect has been seriously lacking - even none existant. I do not wish to go into all of the details and 'spill my guts' to a group of people who I have never, and probably will never, meet and who so far I feel have been lacking in any sort of helpful advice. I do acnowledge that if we were to continue in this forum some helpful advice may come but I think what we feel in this situation is that this type of help is not for us. I am sure none of you would be blind enough to assume that the marriage builders forum is the one and only way to recover from an affair. We intend to follow the MB principles and I have been studying those, we just feel that the forum aspect has been less than helpful.
Through previous events we married with a lack of respect on both sides and assumed, wrongly, that love was enough. We realise now that this is not true and for the first time i both love and respect my husband and i am commited to living in accordance with these principles. We are also lucky to have a very solid foundation on which to build.
We were directed here by a mutual Christian friend and we were directed here as a couple. We felt this was appropriate as secrecy is no longer an option for either of us. We have both had to be honest about a number of uncomfortable things since this happened and transparency now needs to be paramount. My original post - yes the dreaded 'acorn' quote - was a message to my husband and not to the forum which I now realise was a mistake as it was what seemed to trigger the initial outbursts from everybody, but I guess I assumed we could come here as a married couple and get help and support from a group of like minded Christians who would support and help us in our journey to recovery. In actual fact all we saw were a group of people who did not appear to believe that anybody could ever tell the truth again once they had lied once and that basically you are only as good as the last atrocious action you make. No worse than that, you are only as good as the worst action that you have ever done in your life and all of your comments and opinions should be judged from this horrible starting point.
So there we have it, I am guilty of a lot of things. Guilty of being deeply hurt as a young woman and never building the respect back to prevent further damage. Guilty of retreating into my shell for years and not talking about my feelings. Guilty of letting untreated postnatal depression take over my life. Guilty of having an affair. Guilty of lying. Guilty of letting my husbands issues and problems go untreated and undiscussed to culminate in situations where we ceased to be a functional couple for a long period of time.
However I adore him and we will get through this as we have got through so many other things in our time together.
Thanks for the polygraph and STD testing advice, which I think was the sum of the advice given. We will be using this as our start point. Your H's first post expressed frustration and doubt about the account you had given. He indicated that he still felt doubtful and that was why he was posting. Buried in the venomous post you made to people who advised him was the same sentiment of doubt. Your H presented you to us as a woman who had recently betrayed him and then lied about it, admitting sexual involvement only after some pressure from him. The advice to him to arrange polygraph and STD tests was based on what we learned about you - from him. If you came to this forum sobbing that you had found naked pictures of a woman on your H's phone and he had first lied and then given a story about meeting once and having his hands in her knickers, you would have welcomed polygraph and STD advice from us. You haven't addressed the issue of your dishonesty in the various accounts you gave him of the naked man, despite your statement that "we have both had to be honest about a number of uncomfortable things". It is evidently easier for you to blast the forums for making you feel ashamed of what you did. You know that your going for tests in a doctor's office and having lie on a table and have your genitals scraped will make you feel cheap and dirty, and you don't want to feel that, so you attack us and trash our advice to your H. You have obviously whipped your husband into not posting here any more. That's a shame. You have betrayed him with your affair and put him at risk of infections but instead of compensating him for that, you have made him stop posting here. We're not the problem in you marriage, Juggernaut. Shame on you for taking away a source of support from your H.
BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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Runnerbean & Juggernaut, not yelling at you here, but rather, whispering to you as a friend might do over a cup of coffee or pint of beer...
I'm not getting a penny for being a little late to work to write to you.
The only reason I'm here is I owe my wife, my God, and these good folks here more than I can repay for the second chance I got to save my marriage after my affair. I can't undo what I did, but I was able to repair some of it, and I can help others in the middle of that emotional whirlwind called infidelity.
Mercifuly, it's getting harder & harder for me to remember my own mindset of that time almost 4 years ago, but I remember some things I said then, some things I thought... and how there were lots of times when I thought I had the best inside-track to all the answers... times when I thought I was the best judge of my own character, abilities and intentions.
I did some things right in trying to save our marriage, but I did some things wrong. I trickle-truthed my wife, even after breaking her heart. Maybe not because I was what you might think of as "evil," but because I was scared & still acting selfishly in trying to protect not really her, but rather myself, from the possible outcomes of dislosing truths.
It took me months to come to terms with how selfish I'd been. (And ours was, by just about any comparison, a smoother-than-average recovery.)
A lot of it was simply pride. And your defensive words, juggernaut, are simply dripping with it. The fact that you would sabotage your betrayed husband's search for advice -- from people who know not only where's he's at, but where you've been, and know how you both can best climb out of there to build a marriage better than what you had before the infidelity, and at a time when he needs this help most of all in order to save his marriage -- is something of which you will one day find yourself deeply ashamed, if you ever climb out of your wayward mindset.
Lashing out and calling these good people "vipers" even as they try to help you for free, speaks volumes to your level of Christian humility, and to the degree to which fear is triumphing over love. Somewhere, it was once written that perfect love casts out fear. Somewhere, it was written that love rejoices with the truth. You can look those up.
Runnerbean, speaking to you as a man who had an affair, but who has made his marriage better today than before the affair, I can tell you that you would be a fool to allow your wife to call the shots about where you seek advice. (Again, I'm speaking to both you & your wife, as a friend.) If you want to get your marriage straight, there's not better pace for you to be.
But we're about truth here. Not deception. Not trickle-truth and cover-stories and trying to sway you away from what you should be doing. We aren't interested in busting your wife's chops for the fun of it. We want you guys to save your marriage.
If you've got questions, ask me.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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Do you know this for a fact? OR is this what your wife told you? I don't think it's a coincidence that this went unanswered and shortly after came the post that sounds very much like RB has been gaslighted. RB, I suspect that OM is married. It would be a very grave mistake if you are serious about saving your marriage to not verify this on your own and expose if you do find that there is an OMW. That would most likely kill the affair dead and make any further contact very difficult. Good luck!
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Runnerbean, speaking to you as a man who had an affair, but who has made his marriage better today than before the affair, I can tell you that you would be a fool to allow your wife to call the shots about where you seek advice. (Again, I'm speaking to both you & your wife, as a friend.) If you want to get your marriage straight, there's no better pace for you to be. Dr. Harley has said on numerous occasions that the Policy of Joint Agreement does not apply in the case of infidelity. You need to do whatever is necessary for your marriage and/or yourself, and you don't need your wayward to agree or consent.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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I feel so sad for this couple right now.
So many tools at their disposal: the radio program, the website, the books, this forum, and emails to Dr. Harley himself...
All these tools to assist them not just survive infidelity, but create a marriage that thrives, and yet they seem to want to willingly turn away.
Runnerbean, will all due respect, I want to share words of wisdom that were shared with me early on (was it NG? Reynolds? nESRE?), words that allowed me to become a better me and save my wife, my marriage, my family:
Please grow a pair, man up, and LEAD.
God bless.
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Erm, just to clarify, the 'viper' thing was not actually me........
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In actual fact all we saw were a group of people who did not appear to believe that anybody could ever tell the truth again once they had lied once and that basically you are only as good as the last atrocious action you make. No worse than that, you are only as good as the worst action that you have ever done in your life and all of your comments and opinions should be judged from this horrible starting point. I don't recall anyone saying that. MB says that the WS cannot be trusted until they EARN back the trust. Of course people can redeem themselves but it is through ACTIONS NOT WORDS. MB gives you a plan of ACTIONS required to achieve this. Taking the word of someone caught in a lie is just naive. Why would your friend point you to MB if we were just a nest of vipers? ETA: Were they trying to mislead and hurt you?
Last edited by pokerface; 08/07/12 09:43 AM.
ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
Recovered
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Erm, just to clarify, the 'viper' thing was not actually me........ Do you want help with a recovery plan?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Runnerbean & Juggernaut,
I am fairly new here and I don't post here very much, but I just wanted to say that you have no idea how lucky you both are to have all these wise vets posting to you offering you their help. You have all the most experience people on this forum trying to convince you that this is the best place to be because IT IS.
I wish I had the same luck as you as I had a few people posting their advice to me at first and then it just tapered off to about one. Nevertheless, I truly appreciate any help I got. Now I just limit myself to reading other people's posts and apply that advice given to them to my own situation.
In short, PLEASE, listen to all this good people. They have your best interest at heart. They have been in the same situation as you and understand what you are going through.
Me: (BW) 45
Him: (WH)43
5 children: ages 3 - 19
DD #1 - 10/2011 PA
DD #2 - 02/2012 PA
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Wow! - I have rarely seen a WS so in control of a thread.
RB- are you still there? You have every right to seek advice and help, MB is a good place to be.
Even if you do not post, or are not ready to post, read the stories of other BS who have improved their M's using the tools on this site.
I hope in the future you can post without thread disruption. Many posters who are here as BS and WS are advised to KEEP OFF each other's threads, I think this is a good example of why.
People here have lived what you are going through. Don't discredit them by calling them bitter, vipers or "mean". They are truth tellers.
I know, sometimes that truth hurts very much and it seems easier to ignore it. This thing I know.... ignoring your feelings will never help you recover....
You need to put yourself in the drivers seat of recovery, it is apparent you are not allowed to do this now. You need to write your OWN story of your M,
You can find a way. Order and read Surviving an Affair (by Dr. H)for starters. In this situation, I think you should do this on your own.
Oh, yeah. Good Luck to you on this journey.
Last edited by barbiecat; 08/07/12 10:21 AM.
Me; W 46
Him; H 46
2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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my wife later confessed that she had met this old school friend through her work Hey Juggernaut, When was the last time that you communicated with this guy? To avoid any loopholes, "communicated" includes all visual, verbal, sexual, smoke signal, carrier pigeon, third party and electronic communication 
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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****edit*****
Welcome to MB .. I highly suggest you guys start with the emotional needs questionairs and Love Busters Questionairs at the top of the page (print them out x2 and exchange them .. then discuss) and read all you can of the basic concepts, articles and questions and answers and begin to apply what you learn to your marriage. Get rid of the love busters .. and meet each others top emotional needs on a consistant basis (you discover these top needs and love busters with the questionairs).
Also get the books Surviving an affair, His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters. They provide a much clearer picture of the MB plan than the actual site does .. and provide a great way to fill the need of UA time when you read them out loud together! (undivided attention for 15hrs a week with no kids,family or friends meeting top needs that create romantic feelings of recreational companionship, intimate conversation, sexual fulfillment and affection).
I wish you luck.. and pray that you remain faithful to eachother .. both emotionally and physicaly.
Since your opposed to the MB community, maybe give the coaching center a call ... your money will be much better spent on the coaching center here rather than a MC where you sit and regergitate your emotions about past hurts. MB is all about feelings following actions. Do the actions first .. and your feelings will follow.
God Bless
MNG
Edited to ad a little comment.
Last edited by JustUss; 08/07/12 11:38 AM. Reason: TOS attack on members
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Ah - Jaggernut somehow found out about this place and is now in damage control mode -- removing Runnerbean from the very dangerous and accurate advice forum.
Having been a WW, I know how threatening and scary some of the advice is -- polygraph? exposure?? OMG! NO!! She simply HAS to stop it -- therefore we are a pit of vipors. She will work diligently to convince Runnerbean that some of this advice is good, but they should stay away from the forums and they should just work on their marriage THEMSELVES.
(what she will **really** be doing is preventing exposure of herself or OM, warn OM, take the affair wayyyyyyyy underground, and make Runnerbean think she is verrrrry committed to fixing the marriage....)
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- but I guess I assumed we could come here as a married couple and get help and support from a group of like minded Christians who would support and help us in our journey to recovery. In actual fact all we saw were a group of people who did not appear to believe that anybody could ever tell the truth again once they had lied once and that basically you are only as good as the last atrocious action you make. Juggernaut, what you saw were a group of people who understand infidelity and who possess an objective viewpoint. As such, they understand that trust has to be earned. It is not a cheap entitlement that is passed out to entitled, demanding wayward wives. Yes, your starting point is your infidelity, because in order to recover you have to repent and work on redeeming yourself. The fact that this board has suggested this seems to have made you very angry, which speaks volumes about your mentality. A person who is sincere about making amends does not take umbrage when appropriate steps are suggested. Your reaction is a red flag to those of us here who are familiar with waywards. I would also point out that it is a little hypocritical for you to be throwing around bible verses. You weren't throwing around bible verses when you were involved in your affair so your use of them now is hypocritical. Repentance should be sincere and should be reflected by a change of heart ["you will know them by their fruits"] You are required to repent to God and whomever you have sinned against; sin publicly, you must repent publicly. I hope that you can put aside your pride and allow others to help you. You will get much help here if you will take the chip off your shoulder.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Ah - Jaggernut somehow found out about this place and is now in damage control mode -- removing Runnerbean from the very dangerous and accurate advice forum. I agree with this. And any former wayward can see right through this ploy. A wayward who is sincere about recovery would not be driven off by wild horses. She is gaslighting her husband and doesn't want the board to help him.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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You know, I don't object when people are so gullible that they cannot perceive the red flags in a situation, but I do object when they attempt to interfere in the efforts of others to point out those red flags.
MNG, I didn't see your post before it was edited, but since it was edited by a moderator I suspect it had something to do with chastising board members who see the red flags and are trying to help this coupe.
Please understand how dangerous that is to this couple. There are big problems here and this board would be remiss if they didn't point this out. I understand you don't see what is happening, but please don't interfere with those who do.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Thanks for the polygraph and STD testing advice, which I think was the sum of the advice given. We will be using this as our start point. It looks like you missed: The first step is for to end all contact with the OM. All of the ways she used to contact him should be eliminated. Another strange thing; runnerbean's responses suddenly changed tone: First: thanks both for your advice Then Thanks for your wisdom sortingit, best wishes And then, between 8:23 Sunday Morning (following that post) and 4:35 Monday afternoon (UK) no further response, and then: none of anything I've read has been of any use to me at all, So why the thanks then, or what caused the change in view between those times.I was feeling quite chuffed with the wisdom comment until you rained on my parade with a sudden change of mind? Oh well I have broad shoulders... Truth is good. I would refer you also to my signature quote..
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" - George Orwell.
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My money is on wifey finding out he was here, told him to get off (the site, I mean), and posted the "nest of vipers" post herself. "nest of vipers" being the kind of illustrative pejorative more likely to be applied by a female. The "I need some help" to "...but you can't supply it!" cycle was too rapid and discontinuous. - NG, 06 August
Ok, I wasn't going to bother doing this but as it seems neither of us can retract our original posts I feel I have no choice. I am both the vile perpertrator of these tragic events and also Matts loving wife. Although as I type this I hear you all sneering at that. However nothing further will be posted from me or my husband on this site... - Juggernaut, 07 August
Okay, possibly not a DIRECT bull's-eye, but close enough to say:
Minnions, you may commence to worship! RB and J, you may recover your marriage without corresponding here. Reading, learning, and following the MB practices which are laid out through the site may be enough. But I would caution you both about one thing that is not manifest: THE RECOVERY BUS MUST BE STEERED BY THE NEEDS OF
THE BS, AND POWERED BY THE EFFORTS OF THE WS.I hope you read that statement, at least, whether or not you acknowledge the sentiment. Good luck.
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MNG, I didn't see your post before it was edited, but since it was edited by a moderator I suspect it had something to do with chastising board members who see the red flags and are trying to help this coupe. I just felt the red flags could have been brought about alot nicer ... in a more non DJ MB kinda way. I didnt say it that nicely though. MNG
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