Z,the pounding on things and yelling is an angry outburst. Not only that but it's immature. Adults should not be doing the same thing gorillas and children do. The fact is they could change this behavior over night if they wanted to.

So while it might not scare you, the behavior is stupid.

I think it's what Dr. H said to you in the email back, about that mindset that you shouldn't have complaints. That's what's upsetting him, that your behavior doesn't line up with his expectation that you should settle down and just be happy.

Thanks CWMI! This is exactly what he told me this morning. He says it's "controlling" that I "have feelings" about things. He wants me to stop having feelings about things, and meet him in the middle. i.e. give up my feelings when he travels for business, etc.

He said that Jesus says, "No greater love hath any man then when he lays down his life for his friend." He said this means I should lay down my feelings for him. I told him that's what I did in my last marriage, and over time I hated my H and had an affair. He said, "So you're not 'into' sacrifice? No matter what?" I said that if I wanted something really badly and he didn't, I would lay down my desire for it - gladly.

I'm grateful he was honest with me. I am puzzled because I see things very differently: if he says something bothers him I clearly see that I can choose to keep doing it, or stop. It's my choice and nobody is making me do anything. He puts words in my mouth, as if I've said, "You CAN'T do X or Y" - but when I told him I've never said he "can't", he backed off and said, "That's true, but you have feelings about it, so I can't." I told him he can do whatever he wants.

I like your advice - keep it short and sweet. I'll do that.

Thanks, KT. It actually does scare me.

He told me last night that "mistakes will happen." That I expect "perfection" from him, i.e. no more AOs. He said there WILL be mistakes with his temper, and that he "cannot be perfect, that even God doesn't expect him to be perfect."

This makes me a bit nervous. I asked him, "Then what should I expect my future with you to look like?" He iterated that there will be mistakes.

yikes.


(I'm uncomfortable with the passive language too. It's as if he's saying he's "helpless" in this situation. This makes me even more nervous. Thursday can't come soon enough!!)

Thank you for reminding me of this NED! Now that you say it, it totally makes sense!

Z,

What did your H say about going on the radio with you?

In all seriousness, I am thankful that he was honest with me this morning. It helps me to understand that we have different philosophies about marriage. I'm concerned that they aren't really compatible.

I tried the "other way" - i.e. tried to ignore my feelings, was dishonest about how my H's actions affected me, and sacrificed for his gain. I thought that's what Christians do. And I crashed our marriage, and lots of innocent people suffered.

This time, I am determined to be honest about my feelings, look for mutually beneficial solutions, and follow MB principles. I will not go back to the other way - it doesn't work for me.

But I don't think the MB way is working for him.

I'm sad.

He says he will! Yahoo!

I think he might also write to Dr. Harley too - which I would love, because it means he can communicate his perspective.

THANK YOU to all of you for weighing in, helping me, correcting and encouraging me.

I am so grateful to have your insight and perspective.

OH, that is so great! YAY Mr. Z, fantastic! I think this will REALLY help you two. WooHoo!

I love that he is going to send them an email too!

Great! Thursday, right?

Try to encourage him to write an email today so that they can have it before the show. It would be so great to have both perspectives to chew on before going live.

Zhamila, I think since your H has commented on you on-and-on habit, the short and sweet approach will benefit you in many ways. You'll learn to economize words and get your point across succinctly the first time, and he will likely respond much better becuase your point is up front, instead of buried in a bunch of words he may have tuned out.

Can't wait for the show!

Yes, I'll be glad that he can give his perspective.

I'll see if he's up for writing his email today. And I'll keep things short & sweet.

As long as he allows for "mistakes," there will be "mistakes."
And as long as he allows for "mistakes," your marriage has no hope.

He CAN control himself. He just doesn't want to. He sees no need to. He allows for "mistakes."

What you expect is not perfection, but rather, protection from abuse.

If he cannot protect you, then perhaps God will forgive him. But that doesn't mean that you can continue to be with him.

Well, let's give him a chance here, Prisca. How about if Mr. And Mrs. Z sit down and define 'mistake'. I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect mistakes while one is ill-informed, and so long as the person is willing to get informed, is willing to learn, then it is reasonable for the other person to encourage that learning without demanding perfection from the start.

I do agree that AOs can be stopped immediately. Anybody with an ounce of self-control can refrain from yelling, hitting things, etc. Anger itself is more difficult, but is more easily controlled after the outward expression of it has been tamed.

Dictionary.com has a good definition of mistake:
1.
an error�in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge, etc.


If Mr. Z can say he expects to make mistakes due to poor reasoning, carelessness and insufficient knowledge, and is willing to learn, apply, consider and care, then Zhamila should hold him to that. He should also ask for her help in identifying mistakes down the road, and rather than get defensive about them, be willing to rectify them. I think that would be a good step for their marriage.

An AO is not a "mistake," CWMI. It is a CHOICE to punish one's spouse. As long as he defines it as such, and allows himself to have such "mistakes," their marriage has no hope.

We're not talking perfection, here. We're talking about protection from abuse. You do not need to be perfect to stop AOs.

He's got a chance!
He can stop whining about HAVING to be perfect, and start protecting Z from his anger. If he's not willing to do that, what hope is there?

Dr Harley says both spouses should have NO TOLERANCE for AOs, both in themselves and from each other.
Going to your wife and saying "God doesn't expect me to be perfect, and you shouldn't either" is NOT "No Tolerance." It's manipulative, trying to get her to accept his AOs.

This man is in Anger Management and has been on the phone with Steve numerous times. This is not news. He should know this.

I think he would have a difficult time to calling it a mistake if he acknowledges what a mistake, by definition, is. That's why I suggest they discuss and define it. I feel like he has a definition of mistake as something beyond his control, something that happens 'to' him.

Heh, I'd probably make a game of it and have each of us seek out a printed definition of the word that most closely resembles our understanding. Printed online, of course. I only have one dictionary at home.

Or find quotes about mistakes, and talk about the ones that resonate the most with you. Talk about the ones you disgree with the most. Find a funny one you both like and print it out, hang it on the fridge.

Just get an understanding of each other! THEN they can agree on an understanding of what constitutes a 'mistake' in their marriage, and what is done intentionally to harm.

Someone who has reached a calm negoitiated definition of 'mistake' cannot in good faith come back and claim that an AO was a mistake.

That's what makes me nervous. Thank you.

I'm watching all sides of this debate - it's a big decision, and I value your input. (you too, CWMI)

My H did email Dr. Harley today. We shall see....