That's a great post indiegirl, and I think it helped me understand something that I could not put my finger on before - the reason why people should not jump into relationships right after a divorce.

I always argued that newly divorced folks should wait to date because they are not ready or healed, and need some time alone. But I think that indiegirl's point is also very good, and that is that people who come out of marriages have the mentality of a buyer - which is great in a marriage, but is absolutely the wrong thing for dating. It seems so counterintuitive to "step down" from buying to renting, because we think that we are more noble by being buyers - but being a renter is exactly what you want to do when dating.

I think lots of newly divorced folks (myself included) enter the dating world with the buyer mentality, and then think that its their honorable duty to make a dating relationship work, even when things are not working well. They justify it by saying that "no one is perfect, I am not a quitter, relationships take work, etc". But dating should be about quitting a relationship that is not working, there is nothing honorable or smart about trying to keep it going or make it work. I think you just have to be in the renter mentality in order to see things this way, and most newly divorced folks simply don't have that mindset. That's where the time alone comes in, it helps one to transition from being in a marriage (buyer) to being single (renter).

Anyway, sorry for rambling, but thank you indiegirl for triggering this thought process, it certainly helps me if no one else .

AGG

It helped me too, thanks!

Indiegirl is spot on, as usual!

The caveat is Indies post only works when sexual fulfillment is met in marriage. The reason society frowns upon dating many is due to premarital sex. if you sleep with each person you date then you cannot fully grasp the marriage builders principles. They only truly work when in a marital relationship. BECAUSE SF only works when radical honesty and POJA are jointly working towards intimacy and are combined with needs meeting. POJA is designed for marriage.

Dr. Harley also wants the dating relationships to demonstrate Lovebusters so you know what kind of character you have in front of you. If SF is introduced to a dating relationship then you are demonstrating your lack of care for that person because you are demonstrating you do not have what it takes to understand true intimacy in your marriage.

Actually the 30 dates should be done with a freeloader's mentality, not a renters.

A freeloader is VERY good at spotting people who are good for them.

Freeloaders are only interested in people who like them back enthusiastically, who have no discernable problematic issues.

If you find someone like this and you want to develop the relationship, you'll have to become renters at that point because some problem or dispute will arise if you continue as freeloaders.

I have a friend (she was cheated on by her fiance same time I was betrayed) who is doing the 30 dates and the contrast effect on her is fascinating to watch. She only liked losers in the beginning but now she is up to number 15 you can see her bar getting higher all the time.

I am so doing it.

You have more self control than you think. When you need time to heal, you may feel 'drawn' but its not smart. Just prevent anyone from making LB deposits (no flirting, close convos or OS freinds) and you'll be fine.

If no one make LB deposits, no one is attractive. I am the proof!

I've been separated for over a year and won't date until my divorce is final. I'm so glad I found MB because everyone was desperate to 'help' by trying to fix me up with band-aid dates and push me back into the marathon.

But that won't work on a broken leg.

I have had a BRILLIANT time looking after number one. I feel so much happier and confident and ready for my dating adventures. Now that I'm healed I don't feel needy at all.

Yes my friend caused some consternation among people who believed she was going to have SF with her 30 dates!!

She made it very clear that she was simply interviewing candidates for the job of future husband.

She wasn't handing out paychecks just yet!

Certainly has for me this past year. I'm glad I gave my marriage a buyers effort but now its just me and my wants to consider.

Great Analysis Indie ... this is what I was trying to discuss earlier concerning Lovebusters. The relationship cannot stay Freeloader for long, because people's inherent bad habits, i.e. lovebusters come to fruition.

IF you jump into SF too quickly this will mask over the is level of the relationship. SF adds emotions that would not be present otherwise. SF isn't just sex ... it is a combination of your top four most important EN's based on the platform of radical honesty and POJA.

That is why Dr. Harley suggests meeting the four top EN's and SF will usually follow if you are having problems having sex.

You can certainly argue the comforts of marriage may be in itself an emotional need ... especially the security that comes along with marriage ... When you get to a certain age ... this becomes a powerful pull to need.

I am not interested in dating. I am interested in only being a mom. My kids need all my time, and I have no desire for a relationship. I believe being a mom can keep me at the threshold of buyer, since Family commitment is my highest need.

When I am ready to come down to a renter, then I know I am ready to date. At this time I enjoy the security my life is bringing to my kids and myself. It would be such a disservice to any man since I cannot give him the time he needs.

KL,

Did they answer your additional question on the 8-07-12 show?

Bingo, BrainHurts!

Can you please do me a huge favor? I don't know how to find a link to that radio broadcast. Do you have one? I'd like to send it to my, well I guess she's now my ex-GF after last night, so it may be a moot point, but it might help her reach closure.

Great answers from both Joyce and Dr. Harley. Thank you for bringing that to my attention; I would've missed it.

They just posted it so here you go.
Radio clip on KeepLearning's question

Hi BrainHurts, thank you very much for the link. I forwarded it to ex-GF, and she found it very interesting. I hope it helps her. Neither of us are very happy right now.

I've seen your posts on other threads on these forums. You're really on top of things, aren't you? You must have a nice cataloging system to be able to recall links on all kinds of subjects. Thanks again for the link.

KL ... I do not want to keep rehashing how she isn't good marriage material. By her not being happy is a huge to her ability to be a good partner for you.

To clarify ... was there radical honesty by her concerning her expectations for you to become the father figure to her sons? I suspect she has developed some bad (coping) habits in her relationships, and they are clearly being shown here in your dating relationship. She wants some man to sacrifice raising her children at their expense. That isn't fair to anyone.

The reality is she has to be willing, able, capable, and enthusiastic about doing it on her own. I could sit here all day and play victim to being a single mom to my many small kids. That does none of us good. My children have no say in the life they have been handed. They are simple creatures of their parents and my xWH bad choices.

It would be dishonest for me to have the delusion some man is going to come into my life and relieve me of this work. I am all for great male role models, but I am 100% convinced Dr. Harley is spot on when it comes to blended families.

Your girlfriend's bad habits will continue to destroy your relationships, and your ability to spot these kind of woman isn't so hot.

My suggestion again is for you to refrain from dating until you can step back to when you first separated from your first wife. Figure out what went wrong in that marriage, and really examine how your habits made the situation worse. It will probably take at least a year for you to correct your bad habits and formulate new good habits. Lovebusters is an essential book for this along with HNHN. Those two books complemented by Giver/Taker will dramatically change the way you look at life. They are truly life altering.

When this time has healed you ... the next woman you are with will be light years away from the one you are currently letting go.

You're welcome.

My system is still a work in progress.
On top of things? Maybe my librarian skills.

Hi GodGiveMeStrength, thanks for your thoughts. From your comments though, I'm wondering if you missed that I referred to her as my ex-GF. We are not dating anymore. When I wrote "neither of us are very happy right now," I meant that we're both sad over breaking-up. And when I wrote that I hope she is helped by the radio link BrainHurts posted, I meant that I hope it gives her some things to think about that will improve her situation with her son.

I have a question about one of indiegirll's comments:

How do you (general you) know that you're healed and don't feel needy at all?

The reason I ask that is, when I first started dating my xGF, I didn't feel needy at all. Now, almost 3 years later, I can look back and see that I was indeed needy, but at the time, I didn't feel needy; in other words, my feelings deceived me. I don't feel needy now, but maybe 3 years from now, I'll look back and see that I was. What indicators do you rely on to know with confidence that you are truly healed and not needy?

KL ... she cleaned up her side of the fence. She made changes to herself that will prepare her to be a better person.

Your healing needs to begin where your marriage left off. You need to take yourself back and clean up the mistakes you made with your first wife.

Seek repentance where needed, and seek forgiveness where given.

You do not need to rehash anything concerning your wife. Only realize the mistakes you made and start to immediately change them.

This will enable you today to build better habits. Look at the bad habits that helped destroy your first marriage, that ruined your current relationship, and work on yourself to build better habits, good habits that make you a good boyfriend.

I actually think it is great to need someone. To need someone to fill your emotional needs. The key is are your habits going to support need meeting for a long time.

Lovebusters and HNHN combined are essential to building better habits and being a better person. Read them over and over, take notes, and really understand how your life is making your relationships disastrous.

Oh, that is a good question. I would say the difference is people start telling you how happy you seem (instead of encouraging you to date to GET happy) . That you have a full and fulfilling SINGLE life where you have non date plans and are laughing with friends or trying something new every weekend.

If you have what I would describe as a 'longing' feeling (which I did have at the start of Plan B) for someone to fill the gap in your life, left by the last relationship, you aren't ready. I would say you have to be so full of plans, so busy that you don't 'need' someone you only like the idea of meeting people. Lots of people. That's when you are ready to be a freeloader.