Definitely.It would be disrespectful of me to say. In my opinion, when you are "processing" your reality, no. When you are stating a conclusion, maybe.

In radio shows in recent weeks, however, Dr. Harley has emphasized equality -- treating your spouse as exactly as moral or immoral as you are -- as a prerequisite to recovery. Those who cling to any notion of superiority to or disrespect for their spouse tend to be unsuccessful.

So it's not really just what you say, it's also very helpful to manage what you think. And that comes down into the "managing memories" thread posted a couple years back...

Quoted For Truth (QFT).

I too can relate to this, yes Im working on recovery. but i also face the same problems those memories just pop up to set you off for a day of depression. I have to struggle with the fact he took days off to spend with ow, had long lunches with ow never with me, a romantic night in hotel which also included oral sex as well several times of sex, during footy. which now i struggle with the footy which is a huge part of our life. the worse is hearing they hated it when u know they were enjoying themselves. I know how your feeling it also makes you feel like your not good enough. the thing that annoys me the most is putting my girls & my health,happiness & saftey at risk. I think these feelings are something a ws could never understand, I hear all the time from h & people just forget & get over. we would if we could............

kimono, please take this over to your own thread and update us. Footy? What is that? Please respond on your own thread - thanks!

footy= australian afl football, h whole family watch, they visit then change channel, people invite us over to watch, we usually have the grand final party. so as you can see I have football all around me & at the moment it reminds of the romantic sex filled night(h got to fill his fantasy of sex all night long)how can i ever feel that he's enjoying the night with me watching footy. Although he says he dosnt think about it that way, it would have to be pretty happy memory for him. I hate the way the A make you feel in inadquate.......

It has been ~ 3 years since D day and I continue to struggle to put my ww's betrayal behind me. Yes, we have good days - but what does it take to go from surviving day by day to truly recover?

Hi THG12, when recovery is not complete, the mind tends to wander to the tragedy of the past. When the present is happy, that doesn't happen. I would focus all of your attention on creating a romantic, affair proofed marriage. That will truly put the affair behind you.

"when recovery is not complete"


It has taken three years for the 'heavy' feeling to leave my body. I can finally drive down the local roads without anxiety attacks and triggers. I lost my 25 year job early this year, mostly due to the infidelity. It took 8 weeks to identify multiple job opportunities. I have had to start my career all over again.

I just struggle to wrap my arms around what has happened. My wife's behavior, the destruction that followed.

How do you find happiness after being betrayed? I see two options one is bad (recovery) the other is worse (divorce). Yes it has gotten better, but what does it take to get to a complete recovery?

I re-read my initial post 'Holiday Party' from December 2010 earlier today.

A few months ago I was sitting in a co-workers office and saw the pictures of him and his wife. I thought to myself, wow how lucky this guy is. It doesn't matter if his marriage is good or bad, but at least he has not been betrayed.

I feel that I was in a state of shock and kept moving my feet forward for months. Now I have found my balance, things are better, but it still is not complete. What is missing? Why am I still sad and feel such a sense of loss?

I need some help driving to the finish line....

Driving to the finish line involves creating a romantic relationship with your wife while affair proofing your marriage. Another very, very effective way to recover is to move out of the house/area where you WERE when you discovered the affair.

How much undivided attention time do you have with your wife every week? Would you say that you are in love?

We spend allot of time together. Return from work weeknights ~5:30 PM and cook dinner, sit and chat, go for walks when the weather is nice, bike rides. We go out together almost every Fri night to dinner, drinks, watch local bands...

We spend time together on the weekends. Grocery shopping, project around the house, shopping, recreation, raking leaves, family events...

I had a global role from 2008 - 2011. When I would travel to Europe or Asia my co workers would ask about the 100K miles of travel every year. I said, it works out great. Both of my kids are in college and now I can afford to spend time on my expanded responsibilities.

I had a couple of opportunities to be unfaithful. Serious chances, but I am such a loyal person it would never have happened. Never. That is one of the reasons I struggle so much.

We went to the same high school, lived around the block from each other and started dating 5 years after school. Yes - I am in love with my wife.

We bought our home 20 years ago and totally renovated it over the years. I turned down two jobs out of state during the job search, because we are so close to our families, especially our children. Moving out of state is a tough topic to obtain joint agreement.

One thing that made a huge difference in our marriage was going through the Marriage Builders course in 2007. That pushed our marriage to a whole new level. It is a little different now in that you don't have to travel to another city to go through the initial seminar and it is cheaper. But they still assign you a coach who guides you through the lessons over the span of a year. You also have daily access to Dr Harley. It is worth every penny of the program. And they test you to make sure you are falling in love.

I would also broach the subject of moving with your wife. Everyone I know who has moved was extremely happy they did it.

The amount of time that you spend meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs is very probably NOT 15-20 hours per week. Time spent at home tends to be very poor quality and sporatic UA time because it is too easy to get distracted by other hobbies, habits.

This is the first place I would focus. Sit down and schedule your dates with the worksheet and stick to the schedule religiously. The people who cut corners on this step always have the worst recoveries because they are not in love.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4508_tuaw.html

I second that.

My DDay was six months after your's, and I have none of that residual resentment. We are living 500 miles away from the A location, now. The relentless bombardment of triggers is gone. It makes a huge difference.

Now, I suppose I could work up resentment over the fact that these life changes were forced on me. Actually, reflecting on all the changes, it is clear to me that they have been for the better. What is there to resent? Resentment requires that I build a fantasy past existence in my head, and then blame the loss of that fantasy on the A. Why do that, when the present is so much better?

You need to build a better present. All of the tools are at your disposal to do so. You just need to pick them up and get started. Step 1 - Move. Go somewhere where you and your wife can build a new life together.

I have printed out the undivided attention worksheet and will use it to document our plan and report the actual UA time over the next couple of weeks.

I agree that when we have traveled together in the past 2 years I sleep much better and I do not think about the betrayal. It is almost a magic pill. My daughter just graduated college and moved back into the area and my son moved back to attend graduate school. I am convinced moving will help me, but it will also bring a whole new set of problems to our relationship.

We have discussed moving and what else can be done to help with the recovery process if we stay in the area. My wife was raised in a don't ask, don't tell, don't talk about it family. I was not. Every topic from our first call with Steve Harley to the lie detector test was received with a 'not in my lifetime' response. When she finally warms up to the ideas and tries them they have all helped. Much like mr Eureka - I believe she sees each of them as being for the better.

My wife has come a long, long way. But to me it is like the JFK assassination. It is an event that will leave a scar forever, how do you just stop talking about it. Thinking about it. Pretending it has not happened?

What I hear from you is one of the most effective ways is to pack up and move away.

OK - That is back on the table, but it will not happen over night. We will work on the UA time. Anything else?

I would definitely go through the MB course. Since do-it-yourself has not worked, it is time to step it up and get professional help. You failed at doing it yourself and I have no doubt there is a lot you are missing. The Harley's pinpointed a major miss in my own recovery on the first day of the seminar. [we were not using the POJA] You need professional help if you are this bad this far out.

In fact, you might want to first try counseling with Dr Jennifer Chalmers, Dr Harley's daughter, to motivate your wife into going through the program.

Try to keep your focus on the present. Your efforts need to be directed toward making a present that results in a better future. Thinking about the past affair is a dead end. That is why the triggers are so bad. Even when you think they are under control, they are still hurting you by drawing you back. Get out of Dodge, and you will feel much better!

My apologies for not being clear. We have been working with Steve Harley. Although over the past 6 - 12 months the calls have been 30 - 60 days apart.

He has been extremely helpful.

My wife dreads each and every call. He is telling me to change the channel. My remote must be out of batteries, because as I have said before I find it very very hard to just forget and move forward.

I am reminded of the Austin Powers movies, where he is in search of his Mo-Jo. I feel that I have lost mine and I am not sure what to do to get it back.

Something has been taken from me. Something very important. And I am being told the best way to move forward is to forget that it happened. Is that really possible?