But according to Marriage Builders, she is not too sensitive, and her husband should stop the offending behavior.

Well like for example my then-H would get angry in the car, and I thought he shouldn't get angry in the car, because we were stuck listening to it. But he was angry in the car, so I brainstormed what I could do. We weren't doing POJA yet. I figured I could take my own car for two weeks, and see how I liked it. Well I really liked it and kept doing that for a year until I trusted my then-H not to holler at me in the car. Not a great example because he wasn't enthusiastic about it, but POJA would say until you agree how to ride in the car together, don't do it, right?

It's hard at first because when you live in State of Conflict and a lot of things that would make you enthusiastic in better times will just leave you "blah" right now. Like GQ magazines. Some movies and TV shows and restaurants that bugged me when I was in State of Conflict, like B would let the kids watch the Austin Powers movies, don't bother me now. I don't think that's just me. It's like when parents get mad at certain songs when they come on the radio at first, like Grenade or Whistle, and then get used to them. Like how parents dance to Soldier Boy with their kids because no one looked up the lyrics. But if you're sensitive, you did look it up, and shake your head. I am sensitive but that's okay, it gives my guy an opportunity to be my hero And he gives me opportunities to do things that are special for him too.

Maybe a better example is my kids are sensitive to certain things, but because I want them to be happy I will for example wait for DD11 to go clothes shopping because she might find something too itchy to wear if I go without her. I don't have the same standard of itchy so I don't know what to look for. If we were in State of Conflict I would think what a pain and can't she just wear what I buy her? But in State of Intimacy I prefer to wait for her because I like her to wear things that make her comfortable.

Prisca, you are being way too nice to me.

Seriously though, he has lots of resentment about stuff like this. He says it's controlling. I hope Dr. Harley is able to show him the benefits...so far I don't think he sees any.

I do want him to be happy....just not at my expense.

It's not about being nice. This is a basic component of MB: Don't do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse.

It would be very difficult for you to change your feelings. And you would be doing your marriage NO favor by trying to change how you feel. You would be sacrificing, and sacrifice KILLS marriages.

It is far easier for your husband to stop the offensive behavior. It will probably be uncomfortable for awhile, but the two of you can find something else that you WOULD be enthusiastic about. GQ is not the only magazine out there.

True, true. Can't wait til tomorrow!

Hi Zhamila.

I got caught up on your thread, and I'm glad you are getting good advice.

Just wanted to stop by and give you *hugs*

Our husbands sounds similar.

~Anointed

((((Anointed))))

My H was on the radio today. Does anyone have thoughts on it?

I think its great that they are going to follow up with you both.

It sounds like the big issue is that your H bends to your wishes without negotiating his position, and then resents you for it. We struggled with that (still do at times, that's the problem with those pesky conflict avoiders), and what I ended up doing as far as complaints go was to make the complaint without offering a solution, and waiting for my H to offer one. Sometimes it's a workable solution for me and we're done, sometimes I counter-offer. It's trickier with planning, because I'll suggest something for us to do, and he'll act like he agrees with it and we'll do it and then he'll complain that we always do what I want. More later, gota run just now.

Back. it's storming here, I had to get the kids from the bus.

I like the notebook idea.

What did you think?

He sounds so sweet, Zhamila. He sounds willing and frustrated.

I can see how he would feel that POJA is at his expense if it is taking a year to resolve the conflict. Maybe that is how my own husband feels.

Keep pressing in, Zhamila.

Hmmmm, I feel differently about the phone call today.

I didn't like the light-hearted manner around his blow-up after his AM class - and I don't like the way he minimized his AOs, as if he "innocently" or "accidently" yells at me and frightens me, the "pounding" was just "putting his hand down accidentally" as if it's a "simple misunderstanding." Sure he sounded sweet and charming...but I don't see a sincere effort to conquer anger when his last AO was yesterday morning.

I'm sure this has much to do with my "State of Mind" in our marriage, but I am tired of promises to change followed by his saying that "mistakes will happen," and his "it was really no big deal," AO justifications.

I'm not sure what to say.

I haven't listened to the show yet, but maybe you need to talk to Dr. Harley about this.

Thanks Prisca. I'd like to...I don't want to bug him - I mean he's already been so generous & all.

I just feel like I'm going crazy or something. I do have voice recordings and my journal with word-for-word interactions...I'm not imagining all this.

But gosh I feel insane right now.

Z,

I just caught it. I think it is great that he agreed to do the show. I thought you would be on with your H though, and I think maybe you might have felt your points were more completely addressed if you had.

I still feel Dr. Harley DID address the anger issues, in fact I thought he was very clear about that. What I got from what Dr. H said was that IF the two of you begin to learn to use the POJA correctly, the conflicts within the marriage will disappear, but at this point the POJA has not been implemented right, and this has led to more conflict and resentment.

I also love that Dr. Harley mentioned how completely different he and Joyce are, like you and Mr. Z, but they are still able to use POJA to negotiate a solution they are both enthusiastic about very quickly.

Love the notebook idea for all area's of conflict! How bout give it a try? Your H sounds willing! I can see why he would feel the POJA is flawed, a year is a very long time to be stuck in limbo without an agreement.

I understand that you wanted more time and focus on his AO issues, and your feelings to be addressed more specifically. I really did feel that Dr. Harley understood that your H MUST get his AO'S UNDER CONTROL, and understand that no body MAKES him angry or upset and that this is 100% his responsibility.

I feel other things were left out here, like the POUA, and that you are still unsure if you want to plug in or separate.

They always love to hear from the spouse!

And have no doubt: Dr. Harley DOES know how serious AOs are, and that your husband MUST eliminate them. Dr. Harley is the guy that taught us this stuff, remember So, he's not going to think that you're imagining any of this.

I do think that you need to talk to Dr. Harley yourself, about your fears and uncertainties ...

Hopefully I'll get to hear the show later tonight.

I'm with Prisca. Everyone gets mad and upset from time to time but we don't all go around hitting, throwing, and slamming things. He can start with when he feels himself building up to the exploing point, excuse himself and go take a walk. Or count to five and while taking deep breaths.

Thanks guys. I'll reach out to Dr. Harley.

I feel alone and afraid. My H was nice today - but I still feel all rolled up in a little ball (like those doodle-bugs, those roly-polys), like my safety net is gone. Why do I feel like that?



I'll sleep on it and write something in the morning to the good Dr.

Z, this isn't exactly MB out of the book. But here is a trick I used that helped me until my wife and I got our AOs under control. My wife and I used to AO each other quite a bit. One of us would get mad and start yelling, the other would respond back with yelling.

Now neither of us were nervous because we knew that neither one of us would physically attack the other one. I finally mainly got tired of being angry and yelling a lot. I also found MB which helped so much. Anyway, when my wife would start into one of her yelling and insulting tirades, I'd just say, "you know, I'd appreciate you not yelling at me. I find it disrespectful. Let me know when you're ready to talk in a calm manner." Then I'd simply walk away. I decided I wasn't going to get stressed, upset, or even care if she wanted to throw a fit. I was going to calmly let her know that I wouldn't engage in it and leave the area.

It's not right for AOs to happen. They're childish and annoying. I found it pretty easy to just detatch myself when I decided that's what I wanted to do. At this point, I can't even remember the last tim my wife and I AO'e each other. What I do remember is close to year or so ago, I got upset, started to raise my voice, caught myself, apologized and asked if we could start over.

I'd say that was pretty by the book. If your spouse won't protect you from their AO, protect yourself by removing yourself from it. My H still has occasions where he will yell, not very often, but did raise his voice twice, two days ago, while his sister was visiting. We were in the car once and on the boat once, so I couldn't immediately leave, so I just responded, "STOP YELLING AT ME." lol. No fight or anything. He stopped.

Zhamila, I have a theory about your safety net. You're going to have to start negotiating instead of dictating, and that scares the crap out of you. You're only comfortable if the other person is the bad guy, and since he is willing to learn by talking with SH, Dr. H, and AM, you're afraid he's going to lose his position as "the bad guy", and because you have such a habit of there being a good guy and bad guy, the position will fall to you. It wasn't lost on me that you felt closest to him when he was talking about what a jerk he was. Just a theory.