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Hello all, I haven't been on here in YEARS, my husband and I successfully put our marriage back together 10 years ago after an affair almost ruined us. We have just celebrated 19 years of marriage. I need some opinions please... so I am going to cut right to the chase... I have wanted a tattoo for a VERY long time, more than half our marriage. My husband HATES them. He thinks they are ugly, they are a "fad" (sorry Honey, but THAT one is silly, they have been around longer than both of us...), he doesn't like the "stereotype" surrounding them (OLD opinion there..)... He is a very judgmental person, very conservative... VERY opinionated and he is always right... I have put SO much thought and prayers into this, I never got one because I wanted something that would MEAN something to me, since I would have it forever. So the design I have in mind symbolizes my God, my family, my country and my heritage. I have put a lot of thought into this and have decided on a spot that is not obvious, my ankle, so that it isn't glaring at him. He loves my skin, my shoulders, my back... So I have thought about that. I have taken this to our counselor. She is the same one that helped us put our marriage back together, so she KNOWS us. We really have never stopped seeing her, just take long breaks... LOL... and this last time I talked to her about it, she "got" what the symbolism means to me. She is supportive of my decision and asked what is holding me back. I am afraid of his reaction. Plain and simple. I don't WANT to make him mad... BUT this IS something I have always wanted to do and have put if off for this long in deference to him... Her reply to me when I said I was scared of his reaction was "What is the worst he can do?!?"... I am the one that acted out years ago, I KNOW that I still haven't forgiven myself, and I think that this sits in that same category in my mind. I am so overwhelmed by guilt when I think of actually doing this. But then I think that is so silly!!! I am not doing anything to hurt him, I am not breaking a vow, I am not putting it somewhere that is obvious... Please help with some opinions... I want to be sure that I have thought of EVERYTHING before I do this. This forum helped me once before, so I am back since I know it is a healthy place for our marriage...  Thanks!
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Hello all, I haven't been on here in YEARS, my husband and I successfully put our marriage back together 10 years ago after an affair almost ruined us. We have just celebrated 19 years of marriage. I need some opinions please... so I am going to cut right to the chase... I have wanted a tattoo for a VERY long time, more than half our marriage. My husband HATES them. He thinks they are ugly, they are a "fad" (sorry Honey, but THAT one is silly, they have been around longer than both of us...), he doesn't like the "stereotype" surrounding them (OLD opinion there..)... He is a very judgmental person, very conservative... VERY opinionated and he is always right... I have put SO much thought and prayers into this, I never got one because I wanted something that would MEAN something to me, since I would have it forever. So the design I have in mind symbolizes my God, my family, my country and my heritage. I have put a lot of thought into this and have decided on a spot that is not obvious, my ankle, so that it isn't glaring at him. He loves my skin, my shoulders, my back... So I have thought about that. I have taken this to our counselor. She is the same one that helped us put our marriage back together, so she KNOWS us. We really have never stopped seeing her, just take long breaks... LOL... and this last time I talked to her about it, she "got" what the symbolism means to me. She is supportive of my decision and asked what is holding me back. I am afraid of his reaction. Plain and simple. I don't WANT to make him mad... BUT this IS something I have always wanted to do and have put if off for this long in deference to him... Her reply to me when I said I was scared of his reaction was "What is the worst he can do?!?"... I am the one that acted out years ago, I KNOW that I still haven't forgiven myself, and I think that this sits in that same category in my mind. I am so overwhelmed by guilt when I think of actually doing this. But then I think that is so silly!!! I am not doing anything to hurt him, I am not breaking a vow, I am not putting it somewhere that is obvious... Please help with some opinions... I want to be sure that I have thought of EVERYTHING before I do this. This forum helped me once before, so I am back since I know it is a healthy place for our marriage... Thanks! Have you tried POJA with your H about it?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Wow, it has been so long that I don't remember what that is... ?
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Wow, it has been so long that I don't remember what that is... ? Here. The Policy of Joint Agreement
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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Excellent radio clips on implementing POJA. The couple were having troubles with deciding where to live when they retire. Radio clip on implementing POJA Segment #2 Segment #3
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I DID say that it has been a long time since I have been on here... I didn't look around, I simply posted, so yes, I need some refreshers. He is forcing his will on me, isn't that just as hurtful?!?
Obviously, I will refresh my mind, and his, as I am sure he will be happy I came here for advice instead of FBook, LOL, and we will read the POJA...
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
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I DID say that it has been a long time since I have been on here... I didn't look around, I simply posted, so yes, I need some refreshers. He is forcing his will on me, isn't that just as hurtful?!? Oh no, he is NOT forcing his will on you at all. YOU are trying to force your will on him. Telling you he doesn't agree with the tat is not forcing you to do anything. He is telling you he does not agree with your getting a tattoo. And you are insisting that you gain at his expense. Win/lose agreements cause conflicts and create incompatibility that cause couples to fall out of love.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I DID say that it has been a long time since I have been on here... I didn't look around, I simply posted, so yes, I need some refreshers. He is forcing his will on me, isn't that just as hurtful?!? The Policy of Joint Agreement says you can't do it without his being enthusiastic about it. So, that is the bottom line. If you want to trash your marriage, well, you have found a way to do it.
me-65
wife-61
married for 40 years
DS - 38, autistic, lives at home
DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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OMG, I haven't come on here for bashing, but for help. Please answer ME in respectful ways as well... Thank you
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Mrs WLD,
I see you "bashing" your husband, delivering disrepectful judgements (He is a very judgmental person, very conservative... VERY opinionated and he is always right...).
But, I don't see anyone bashing you. Were you able to look at the link and listen to the radio clips?
The default position in POJA is to do nothing unless there is enthusiastic agreement. Why would you want to make your husband unhappy by getting a tattoo when he has said that he doesn't like them? You would be doing something at your husband's expense. And it would be permanent. Every time he looked at your tattoo, he would be reminded of your independent behavior and your disregard for his feelings.
Dr. Harley talks about two types of resentment. Type A and Type B. Type A resentment occurs when a person doesn't get to do something they want to do, i.e. you not getting a tattoo. Type B resentment occurs when a spouse does something that they know upsets the other person, i.e. you getting a tattoo even though you know it would upset your husband. In this case, your husbands resentment at you getting a tatoo would be far stronger and more longlasting than your not getting a tattoo.
Finally, lose the counselor. She counsels you to engage in independent behavior without consideration for your husband.
O.K. Now finally. How would your husband feel about a temporary tattoo? Brainstorm solutions to your conflict. Negotiate, but don't do anything until you BOTH are enthusiastic.
AM
AM
Last edited by armymama; 08/11/12 01:26 PM. Reason: multiple spelling changes
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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I infer from your first post that you were the one who had an affair. Is that correct?
The reason you are feeling guilty about this tattoo thing is that having an affair is the ultimate independent behavior, causing devestating pain to the betrayed spouse. Getting this tatoo without POJA is also an idependent behavior.
AM
BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
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OMG, I haven't come on here for bashing, but for help. Please answer ME in respectful ways as well... Thank you huh? Who has "bashed" you? The only bashing I see here is you bashing your own husband. I can't believe the disrespect you have shown him over a stupid tattoo.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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The reason you are feeling guilty about this tattoo thing is that having an affair is the ultimate independent behavior, causing devestating pain to the betrayed spouse. Getting this tatoo without POJA is also an idependent behavior. Armymama is absolutely right. You practice the same independent behavior that led to your affair. Add that to the disrespectful judgments you have posted here and that spells trouble. Independent Behavior
Once you are married, almost everything you decide to do has either a positive or a negative impact on each other -- you are either depositing or withdrawing love units with every decision you make. So if your decisions are not made with each other's interests in mind, you will risk destroying the love you have for each other.
I define Independent Behavior as the conduct of one spouse that ignores the feelings and interest of the other spouse. It's usually scheduled and requires some thought to execute, so the simplest way to overcome this Love Buster is to take it off your schedule. If your Thursday night bowling, or visit to a friend of the opposite sex, or spending five hours chatting on the internet while your spouse sits alone watching TV, schedule something else Thursday night, visit someone else, and spend time doing something with your spouse. And whatever it is you decide to do that replaces independent behavior, be sure that both you and your spouse enthusiastically agree to it.
My ninth Basic Concept, the Policy of Joint Agreement, (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse), helps eliminate independent behavior -- any event or activity that is not mutually agreed to cannot take place. It forces you to take your spouse's interests and feelings into account when you forget that your spouse is an extremely important part of yourself, and should be considered in every decision you make.
Independent behavior is a problem in most marriages because we are all tempted to do whatever makes us happy, even when it makes our spouse unhappy (the Taker's rule). We don't feel the pain our spouse feels when we are inconsiderate -- all we feel is the pleasure gained from activities that are only in our best interest. That's why the Policy of Joint Agreement is so important in marriage. It forces us to behave as if we feel each other's pain -- it makes us behave as if we were empathetic. continued here
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I have taken this to our counselor. She is the same one that helped us put our marriage back together, so she KNOWS us. We really have never stopped seeing her, just take long breaks... LOL... and this last time I talked to her about it, she "got" what the symbolism means to me. She is supportive of my decision and asked what is holding me back. Unfortunately, she is not supportive of your MARRIAGE. After all, she is not the one who will be stuck with your bad marriage if you follow her bad advice, so she doesn't care. Marriage counselors have a higher divorce rate than the general population and don't have the slightest idea how to create a happy, compatible marriage. [they have an 84% failure rate!] Your MC is an idiot whose suggestion would only create an incompatible, unhappy marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Welcome back, Mrs WLD.
The Policy of Joint Agreement ("POJA") suggests that you and your husband should talk this one out and come up with a solution that you both are enthusiastic about.
That's preferable to making a lot of assumptions about what he might say, or to his making lots of assumptions about your thinking.
If he's vehemently opposed to your getting a tattoo, even if you offer him input on the design, the location, etc., then I guess as a next step, you might want to then ask yourself, "Is this my hill to die on? Is it so important to me to get this done even ift it might drive a wedge between me & my spouse, and is it worth that?"
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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... stop being so disrespectful to your husband. Your post is loaded with disrespectful judgments against your husband. YOU are very judgmental towards HIM. Trying to force your will on your husband is a lovebuster that will ruin your marriage.
[/quote]
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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LOL, gotta love technology...
In short, thanks to those that reminded us about the POJA...
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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Posts: 20,479 Likes: 6
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LOL, gotta love technology...
In short, thanks to those that reminded us about the POJA... Are you going to POJA the tattoo with your H?
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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yes, as soon as we relearn how
Weez
Oh, so you dug way, way, deep down in your heart and found the love still there!?!
Our 7 year old upon hearing that we weren't getting a divorce
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