If he's driving, I'd calmly ask him to pull over and I'd get myself and the kids out of the car. If he refuses to protect you and pull over, I'd never get in a car that he's driving again.

If I'm driving, I'd pull over and get myself and the kids out of the car.

Call a cab. Call a friend. Shop for an hour. But I wouldn't just sit there and let him AO while driving. Your life is certainly in danger then, with an insane driver (or an insane passenger distracting the driver).

This is super helpful. I'll try writing them again.

Oh, and Prisca, I won't try to reason during an AO anymore. I heard ya...I should've said it more clearly.

G'nite all.

Wow. OK then.

I need to get stronger about removing myself when there is a situation like this. I'll try that next time. Thank you!

OK, goodnight, really.

I just remembered our last assignment from Steve, before I decided we weren't making progress and I was done.

H's job was to ask me every hour: "Do you feel safe? Do you feel cared for?" He was supposed to bring back 'all As'

My job was to encourage him on what progress he made.

That was a month ago.

We weren't even 'allowed' to have UA time until that last 2 weeks because of my H's angry, uncaring and unsafe behavior, and then it was so unpleasant that Steve gave H that last assignment (which he didn't do...I think he asked me once).

I slept on the bathroom floor last night. H was upset when he found out. He said he felt, "hateful." I was actually afraid of him last night, deep down in my belly.

Where are you NewEveryDay? Is there any newness here for me?

Hi Z, I just caught up. I agree with what Prisca said, think through ahead of the what to do in the car. Having the back-up plan may give you a confidence in your safety and security that will spread to your H. I know I had to stop driving with my then-H fora year. It made him more mad at first, because he took it as about him. But really I did that to show myself I was willing to stand up for our marriage, focus on the good situations, and stop doing the things that didn't work.

I was trying to think back last week, and remembered the "last straw." I had no trust in my then-H, and would sporadically check his email after his AOs, because those were the times he was hiding something. He had sent an unwelcome suggestive joke email to two coworkers, a guy and a lady, about inviting the cleaning ladies to their holiday party, "because you know what they can do with their vacuums." The lady wrote back to please stop sending suggestive jokes like that to her.

But Z, this wasn't really the last straw. I was done, and looking for justification, and grabbed onto what I had found. Everything bothered me, I was miserable and didn't understand why. I can understand looking at the mail and being reminded of how much had been out of what I could tolerate. I didn't get the donut thing until re-reading this morning, it was the same thing, a symbol of how much time had passed and we were still in the same spot. It drains hope. And it was easier for me to DJ my then-H in my mind for his email than it was for me to jump back in and rally for change. Folks are going to do stuff that hurts. We can address it together as a team, even knowing it's not your problem to fix. For your family, that may mean calling the AM folks, or whatever fail-safe you have set up. Or it may mean taking the next step to protect your marriage from future AOs. Because that's what we do even in a failing marriage.

So, that's what lies before you today. As I say to my DD16, this isn't a question you need to answer out loud for me, you can just answer it in my head. What's my plan? Am I going to wait and see for another set period of time, getting input from the Harleys when they get back? Are you going to get your ducks in a row for Plan B? Both? Neither?

I would venture to say that if your marriage is meant to last, then there are no bad answers. That sticking it out a little longer would get you there. And that Plan B would get you there.

That's what I would do.

This helps me so much NED. Thank you.

I have some real thinking to do and you're helping me clarify.

Prisca, what made you decide you needed to separate because of AO's? (is that what it was, or something else?) Was it a decision you just 'knew' in your heart, or did someone encourage you or advise you?

Or did you never separate (until just recently, as you told me) and things got better?

I needed to show markos that yes, I was actually serious about him eliminating his AOs. The cycle of being kind to me for awhile, blowing up at me, then coming back to me with "I'm so sorry, Prisca. Can we try again?" was just not working for me.

We've been working on recovery for 1.5 years now. He's been in anger management, has counseled with both Steve and Dr. Harley, has read all the books and listens to the radio show daily. But he was still blowing up at me. And I couldn't take it anymore. It scared me that he was putting that much effort into our marriage for that long, and yet was STILL having AOs. I was having anxiety attacks from just being in the same room as him.

I read through every article I could find on this site about AOs, and that's what gave me the courage to say "Please leave." I would rather live alone than live in fear of another AO, and I think he finally realizes that.

How's it going?

Hi Prisca!

Thank you for your answer on separating...it really helped me.

Sorry I haven't been around, it's been an emotional week. I asked H to leave. He was still AO'ing, arguing that his actions should have no negative affect on me, and shifting all the blame to me. Also, I kept seeing an utter lack of respect from him, and it all came to a head Monday. I asked him to leave by Friday and we would work on our marriage from afar.

However, he begged me to give him another chance. He acknowledged his anger and abuse issues, so I am giving it another shot. I set down some (I hope) clear guidelines and deal-breakers from my POV. He says he is willing to pursue improvement, so I am seeing how things go.

I've told him I need two things, BARE MINIMUM: safety and respect. He must pursue a program of recovery (anger management, journaling, other therapy to deal with some underlying issues, books, websites, etc). I will not manage his recovery (that's his job, his responsibility) but I will listen if he wants to share.

I was REALLY HAPPY Tuesday when I thought he was going to be gone. Now I'm really tired again and unsure whether this is worth cycling through again. He is being very concilitory and kind, but I know that the work has only begun. I have zero tolerance for AO mistakes (including "the evil glare" banging, slamming doors/things, throwing, etc). And I have very little patience for the lack of respect with which he has consistently treated me.

I am not at all sure this was the right decision. Part of me wonders if I let his tears unwisely sway me. I'd never seen an adult so bereft in my life.

News, huh?

I don't know, Z. Seems like you keep doing the same things, and expecting a different result. Isn't this an exact repeat of what happened a month or so ago?

Argh. That's what I'm afraid of.

What would you do, Kerala?

Egads! No, lady... NO!

This is just another page in the abuse cycle. The man needs to be firmly planted on his cheeks on the curb.

Apology and begging does not break the cycle. There are ten thousand alternatives to having an AO, and no believable apology for allowing one to happen.

(With the std disclaimer that this is about YOU, not me)...

I have to be completely honest - I simply wouldn't tolerate AOs in my husband. If the habit reared its head after we were married, I don't think I'd stick around for very long.

Some people really like the "sturm und drang" of emotional scenes. I am NOT one of them. A harmonious, peaceful relationship is my #1 expectation. Of course conflicts arise, but they need to be civilized. Even daily "bickering" is too much in my book.

ETA: After we were engaged, or in the first year of marriage, I let the "F" word slip in a conversation with my H. He calmly asked me never again to use that word in any way that could possibly be interpreted as being directed at him. It was a wake-up call - of my own bad behaviour and the realization that he would simply NEVER do that - and I never have since.

Oh no...I've really botched this one.

Kerala, this is exactly how I feel...I just haven't been acting like it. I just want peace.

So, I've totally messed this up? What next?

Not yet.

No more tolerance of his AOs.

No. more.

I know that I was specifically tough on you about keeping your side of the street clean, but dude keeps tossing crap over the fence. He keeps making withdrawals... and you have already demonstrated your LB$ is in the red.

At this point, it is actually the compassionate thing for you to do in asking him to leave until he can learn to resolve his anger issues.

OK. Thanks for sharing the strength.