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Originally Posted by MikeStillSmiling
OWH,

Im feeling your pain.

Its a brutal life your wife has carved out for you.

Stay strong, keep yourself sane, I started to excercise to keep myself focused.
Thank you, MSM. I'm doing fine. I'm sad. I'm disappointed, but I feel like I'm on a pretty even keel.

I'm just tired of the little "slips-ups" she makes. That's the pesky problem about truth: it latches itself into your memories in a permanent fashion, unlike lies. She's constantly "slipping" little elements of truth that don't match her past lies.

I will be able to rebuild all her movements using cell, credit card records, and bank deposits. I'll either confirm my suspicions or confirm her story. It's just a matter of getting my hands on older records, which have already been ordered.

After I lost around 40 lbs on the infidelity diet, I recovered twenty of those and have maintained excellent health over the past year with a regular exercise program. My wife tells people I have the body of a thirty year-old. I admonish her not to tell people what I have buried in the back yard . . .

BrainHurts #2655847 08/13/12 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts

Thank you, BH. I fully understand the concept of Gaslighting. I'm actually trying to find a copy of the movie to watch with my wife.

She loves old movies . . .

OldWarHorse #2655848 08/13/12 09:22 AM
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Is she onboard with MB?

Will she read the book Love Busters? There is an excellent chapter on lying and how to become an honesty person.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



OldWarHorse #2655866 08/13/12 10:36 AM
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Quote
This is not the issue. The concepts here are foreign to her based on cultural differences. That's the reality of the situation with which I'm dealing.


Thank you, CP. But, truth is, God has nothing to do with this.

See OWH you are on a Christian site, and it is part of this culture, and a part of marriage also.

Lol. Why would anybody even want to discuss the word Marriage, without God being in on it?

Does natural law line up with spiritual law and does Gods law represent it?

The water is to cloudy for me to help I'm afraid. I need some kind of firm ground to stand on.

What does she believe in anyways?

Last edited by ConstantProcess; 08/13/12 10:37 AM.
OldWarHorse #2655874 08/13/12 11:00 AM
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The concepts here are foreign to her based on cultural differences.

Well, I understand your words, but cannot quite gather your meaning. Without knowing the problem, it is inefficient to commence offering solutions.

Make this easy on us, OWH, and explain how your WW's cultural differences would prevent her agreeing with Dr. H's "Ten Basic Concepts" that foster a healthy marriage, and which ones she's struggling to accept.

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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Quote
This is not the issue. The concepts here are foreign to her based on cultural differences. That's the reality of the situation with which I'm dealing.


Thank you, CP. But, truth is, God has nothing to do with this.

See OWH you are on a Christian site, and it is part of this culture, and a part of marriage also.

Sadly, good marriages are not a part of Christian culture. frown I would say they should be, but the truth is that our marriages fail in the same ways and basically the same rates as unbelievers.

Dr. Harley says all cultures are full of forces that work against marriages. There are posts by him on the private forum to people in the Middle East explaining how he's not teaching an American/Western thing that is somehow culturally easy for us and impossible for them. He's simply teaching how to have a good marriage. This is how all people in all cultures do it, and they usually have to ignore forces in their culture that work to tear down marriage.

This is how unbelievers have a good marriage, and how Christians have a good marriage, and how Jews and Buddhists have a good marriage, and how ...


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2655888 08/13/12 12:27 PM
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Wow Markos, see I knew being a Christian had little to do with being honest and having honor, of being able to grasp those concepts and live in them

Even the tribes in the jungles know that.

See I was right lol when I knew my wives answer and version of Gods grace was also a way for her to lay the blame for her problems on, "The Debil".

Perhaps that is why the native Indians in this country also said that "White man speaks with forked tongue"
Could it be that they also recognized the serpent and cold bloodedness of actions over words?

Yes actions speak louder than words, and Dr H and his work have cut through all the hype and bull that many religious folk either play on, or trust in , depending on how they experience life and what beliefs give them strength to deal with this wacky world.

You don't have to be religious or have it in with God to live honest and true and have a good marriage.

Why bother then? Why don't we just shack up until our kids are grown up and our libido fades? Maybe we just don't negoiate our relationships on those basis and attach to much emotionalism to the love relationship.

I agree that would be better than lies and deception that plagues most marriages.

Discipline, training, and control over your emotions and not letting them do the thinking for you, Who and what are we going to listen too to do that? If Dr H were not around, would there be another source we could look to? Someone or something we could trust? One that did not have the chains of humanity tieing them down too?

I think I will choose God, and obey Him, regardless of what is popular and convenient


Me 56 Former BS
Widowed 5-17-09 --married 25 years.
4 children
DS-35 previous marriage--18-22 DGrandSons 6 and 4
Me former BS
DD-29 with DGDs 5 and 1yr
DSs 26 and 23
Teilhard de Chardin..“We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience.” ...Sounds about right to me.
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CP,

I'm not at all sure what you are arguing, but to tell this poster that he can't be helped unless he is Christian is not how Dr. Harley would advise him.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Maybe we just don't negoiate our relationships on those basis and attach to much emotionalism to the love relationship.

CP, can you clarify what you are arguing for?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
markos #2655894 08/13/12 12:52 PM
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CP, Markos - With all due respect, may I suggest you "take it outside" to a separate thread, and let the issue HERE be helping OWH structure a methodology to introduce the MB principles to his WW?

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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Why would anybody even want to discuss the word Marriage, without God being in on it?

I am an atheist. I am pro-marriage. Harmonious, life-long, monogamous commitment predates Christianity.

Please rethink your position. MarriageBuilders is structured so that it works regardless of religious belief.


Doormat_No_More
(Formerly Barnboy)
Original thread lost in the forum purge of '09.
4 months after D-Day
1 year after D-Day
Two Years Later
Four Years Later
NeverGuessed #2655902 08/13/12 01:26 PM
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Thank you, NG.

PLEASE stay on topic.

The topic is helping OWH with his marital situation.

Feel free to start a thread on any other discussion in the Other Topics Forum.

Thank you!



JustUss

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OldWarHorse #2655938 08/13/12 03:18 PM
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OWH,

I'm just tired of the little "slips-ups" she makes. That's the pesky problem about truth: it latches itself into your memories in a permanent fashion, unlike lies. She's constantly "slipping" little elements of truth that don't match her past lies.

In my experience these slip ups go on for years, some of them are just accidental, but most seem propelled out by guilt and fear.

Some as you know too, are just comical, not too long ago my W told me that oral was dangerous???, implying that I might get and STD from her, but then told me it had nothing to do with her cheating on me.

God Bless
Gamma


Gamma #2655963 08/13/12 05:35 PM
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Got my package in the mail today. Found exactly what I thought I'd find. Confirmed a LTA starting in 2007 and continuing into 2008. Stopped in 2009 and recommenced in 2010.

Exactly. Exactly. What I suspected. Under the overwhelming evidence, she finally confessed.

Wasted 18 months of my life. Back to square one.

I'm probably gonna take a break from the board for a few days. I might read, but don't really feel like posting right now.

Thanks everyone.

OldWarHorse #2655976 08/13/12 06:17 PM
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Sorry to hear that OWH, have good rest and good luck on your recovery in every way Sir

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Wow, that sucks. "Recommenced in 2010" sounds like "Still going on" to me. That's sad.

I'd be done, bro. I'd have ARAG (my pre-paid legal plan) on the phone the moment I had proof getting the divorce papers ready. No matter how much I love my wife, no matter how important my marriage is to me, it's not worth going through the pain of infidelity all over again when I could get a clean break, put it all out into the open to everybody we know, and get on with my life without the drama.


Doormat_No_More
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Four Years Later
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In the interest of compassion and understanding, and I hope falling in line with what MB teaches, while you are gone these few days and still might be reading, may I ask some simple questions about how your poor mixed up wife must be feeling?

Questions we men think we know but are unfortunately taught in very painful ways in our experiences

Does she come from a culture where women are considered second class citizens? Was she taught that as a child or young woman?

How strongly does she think of communication between you and her? Is it paramount for her piece of mind and who she shares her body with?

How was she prepared for marriage? What is her level of education, about the world and what to expect?

This site can help you guys, but as many have learned through the years, there is no sorta married, like sorta pregnant, and the life you share with someone is the most important relationship you will ever have. Yeah it's all or nothing in my opinion, mistakes are made, forgiveness is possible, but honesty and acountability is a must.

Once we are told right from wrong it is up to us to maintain it.

What was she told? Does she believe it?

Thanks justuus for the stepping in to remind me of the practical science behind MB

The offense I took was from my own foolishness and of course MB works in all faiths and cultures, it just makes sense

OldWarHorse #2656005 08/13/12 08:15 PM
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I have no words to lessen your hurt, OWH. We'll be here when you feel up to returning.

OldWarHorse #2656047 08/13/12 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OldWarHorse
She'll never post here. She knows the default position is that the BS is entitled to full disclosure. That's not just Dr. Harley's teaching, but the position of most professionals dealing with infidelity.

She will not subject herself to the treatment those like her get here.

OWH,

My wife was asked some hard questions when she came here, but she wasn't mistreated by anyone. I think the folks who get it the hardest are most times those who aren't giving the full disclosure and folks here know it. That said, the list isn't for everyone, but I do encourage folks to come and post to it because I believe it is the best place aside from going straight to the H's.

CV


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
OldWarHorse #2656048 08/13/12 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by OldWarHorse
Originally Posted by celticvoyager
Serious question here... are you sure the affair hasn't gone underground? No secret affair phones or anything? As far as withdrawing and not being able to make eye contact, this is why they say false recoveries set you back to ground zero. It's been what... A week? has she offered any explanation at all? I wouldn't give her the time to formulate answers. I'm from the school of hit it hard and fast and don't give em time to squirm away.

Cv

I'm sure there is no affair. All of the emotional withdrawal is on my part. She's working hard to try to break though my barriers.

Her explanation: she's been under a lot of stress and was having a hard time sleeping. She said she woke up in the wee hours of the morning before the polygraph and took Exedrin PM so she could get some sleep, and that's why she was "out of it."

Another lie. If her version were true, the effects of the drug would've been evident on the two-hour drive to our polygraph appointment. There were no such effects evident. I know she took the drugs in the restroom just prior to our appointment for the express purpose of suppressing her nervous system reactions, hoping to fool the test. As with the details of her affair, she doesn't care what I "know," she knows I can't "prove" it. So, she becomes entrenched and comfortable with the lie.

In addition, she's actively playing down the validity of polygraph science and the accuracy of the tests. Her explanation: "I don't know why I didn't pass it."

I'm actively looking for the movie "Gaslight." I want to see if the Hollywood version is anything near the depth of the version I'm living right now.

I will just say one thing...It wasn't Excedrin pm... I accidentally took it once during the day and while I did mellow out a bit, it didn't make me drowsy. Unless she took like 6 of them... I'm sorry you are dealing with this, brother. my prayers are with you.



Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
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