Thank you, MSM. I'm doing fine. I'm sad. I'm disappointed, but I feel like I'm on a pretty even keel.

I'm just tired of the little "slips-ups" she makes. That's the pesky problem about truth: it latches itself into your memories in a permanent fashion, unlike lies. She's constantly "slipping" little elements of truth that don't match her past lies.

I will be able to rebuild all her movements using cell, credit card records, and bank deposits. I'll either confirm my suspicions or confirm her story. It's just a matter of getting my hands on older records, which have already been ordered.

After I lost around 40 lbs on the infidelity diet, I recovered twenty of those and have maintained excellent health over the past year with a regular exercise program. My wife tells people I have the body of a thirty year-old. I admonish her not to tell people what I have buried in the back yard . . .

Thank you, BH. I fully understand the concept of Gaslighting. I'm actually trying to find a copy of the movie to watch with my wife.

She loves old movies . . .

Is she onboard with MB?

Will she read the book Love Busters? There is an excellent chapter on lying and how to become an honesty person.

See OWH you are on a Christian site, and it is part of this culture, and a part of marriage also.

Lol. Why would anybody even want to discuss the word Marriage, without God being in on it?

Does natural law line up with spiritual law and does Gods law represent it?

The water is to cloudy for me to help I'm afraid. I need some kind of firm ground to stand on.

What does she believe in anyways?

The concepts here are foreign to her based on cultural differences.

Well, I understand your words, but cannot quite gather your meaning. Without knowing the problem, it is inefficient to commence offering solutions.

Make this easy on us, OWH, and explain how your WW's cultural differences would prevent her agreeing with Dr. H's "Ten Basic Concepts" that foster a healthy marriage, and which ones she's struggling to accept.

Sadly, good marriages are not a part of Christian culture. I would say they should be, but the truth is that our marriages fail in the same ways and basically the same rates as unbelievers.

Dr. Harley says all cultures are full of forces that work against marriages. There are posts by him on the private forum to people in the Middle East explaining how he's not teaching an American/Western thing that is somehow culturally easy for us and impossible for them. He's simply teaching how to have a good marriage. This is how all people in all cultures do it, and they usually have to ignore forces in their culture that work to tear down marriage.

This is how unbelievers have a good marriage, and how Christians have a good marriage, and how Jews and Buddhists have a good marriage, and how ...

Wow Markos, see I knew being a Christian had little to do with being honest and having honor, of being able to grasp those concepts and live in them

Even the tribes in the jungles know that.

See I was right lol when I knew my wives answer and version of Gods grace was also a way for her to lay the blame for her problems on, "The Debil".

Perhaps that is why the native Indians in this country also said that "White man speaks with forked tongue"
Could it be that they also recognized the serpent and cold bloodedness of actions over words?

Yes actions speak louder than words, and Dr H and his work have cut through all the hype and bull that many religious folk either play on, or trust in , depending on how they experience life and what beliefs give them strength to deal with this wacky world.

You don't have to be religious or have it in with God to live honest and true and have a good marriage.

Why bother then? Why don't we just shack up until our kids are grown up and our libido fades? Maybe we just don't negoiate our relationships on those basis and attach to much emotionalism to the love relationship.

I agree that would be better than lies and deception that plagues most marriages.

Discipline, training, and control over your emotions and not letting them do the thinking for you, Who and what are we going to listen too to do that? If Dr H were not around, would there be another source we could look to? Someone or something we could trust? One that did not have the chains of humanity tieing them down too?

I think I will choose God, and obey Him, regardless of what is popular and convenient

CP,

I'm not at all sure what you are arguing, but to tell this poster that he can't be helped unless he is Christian is not how Dr. Harley would advise him.

CP, can you clarify what you are arguing for?

CP, Markos - With all due respect, may I suggest you "take it outside" to a separate thread, and let the issue HERE be helping OWH structure a methodology to introduce the MB principles to his WW?

I am an atheist. I am pro-marriage. Harmonious, life-long, monogamous commitment predates Christianity.

Please rethink your position. MarriageBuilders is structured so that it works regardless of religious belief.

Thank you, NG.

PLEASE stay on topic.

The topic is helping OWH with his marital situation.

Feel free to start a thread on any other discussion in the Other Topics Forum.

Thank you!

OWH,

I'm just tired of the little "slips-ups" she makes. That's the pesky problem about truth: it latches itself into your memories in a permanent fashion, unlike lies. She's constantly "slipping" little elements of truth that don't match her past lies.

In my experience these slip ups go on for years, some of them are just accidental, but most seem propelled out by guilt and fear.

Some as you know too, are just comical, not too long ago my W told me that oral was dangerous???, implying that I might get and STD from her, but then told me it had nothing to do with her cheating on me.

God Bless
Gamma

Got my package in the mail today. Found exactly what I thought I'd find. Confirmed a LTA starting in 2007 and continuing into 2008. Stopped in 2009 and recommenced in 2010.

Exactly. Exactly. What I suspected. Under the overwhelming evidence, she finally confessed.

Wasted 18 months of my life. Back to square one.

I'm probably gonna take a break from the board for a few days. I might read, but don't really feel like posting right now.

Thanks everyone.

Sorry to hear that OWH, have good rest and good luck on your recovery in every way Sir

Wow, that sucks. "Recommenced in 2010" sounds like "Still going on" to me. That's sad.

I'd be done, bro. I'd have ARAG (my pre-paid legal plan) on the phone the moment I had proof getting the divorce papers ready. No matter how much I love my wife, no matter how important my marriage is to me, it's not worth going through the pain of infidelity all over again when I could get a clean break, put it all out into the open to everybody we know, and get on with my life without the drama.

In the interest of compassion and understanding, and I hope falling in line with what MB teaches, while you are gone these few days and still might be reading, may I ask some simple questions about how your poor mixed up wife must be feeling?

Questions we men think we know but are unfortunately taught in very painful ways in our experiences

Does she come from a culture where women are considered second class citizens? Was she taught that as a child or young woman?

How strongly does she think of communication between you and her? Is it paramount for her piece of mind and who she shares her body with?

How was she prepared for marriage? What is her level of education, about the world and what to expect?

This site can help you guys, but as many have learned through the years, there is no sorta married, like sorta pregnant, and the life you share with someone is the most important relationship you will ever have. Yeah it's all or nothing in my opinion, mistakes are made, forgiveness is possible, but honesty and acountability is a must.

Once we are told right from wrong it is up to us to maintain it.

What was she told? Does she believe it?

Thanks justuus for the stepping in to remind me of the practical science behind MB

The offense I took was from my own foolishness and of course MB works in all faiths and cultures, it just makes sense

I have no words to lessen your hurt, OWH. We'll be here when you feel up to returning.

OWH,

My wife was asked some hard questions when she came here, but she wasn't mistreated by anyone. I think the folks who get it the hardest are most times those who aren't giving the full disclosure and folks here know it. That said, the list isn't for everyone, but I do encourage folks to come and post to it because I believe it is the best place aside from going straight to the H's.

CV

I will just say one thing...It wasn't Excedrin pm... I accidentally took it once during the day and while I did mellow out a bit, it didn't make me drowsy. Unless she took like 6 of them... I'm sorry you are dealing with this, brother. my prayers are with you.