I believe this program can work. I have read enough stories to believe this. I also believe this program cannot work unless the WS is willing to jump on board not unless the BS is just looking for self recovery and not looking to save the marriage.

I believe in this program but I am sick and tired of poster telling me I took to long or jumping ship just because I didn't do things right then. Look at the world people not everybody is created equal. Some of us have to build ourselves up to what needs to be done and some just react. Does that mean as poster we just give up on the person. Would a negotiator quit trying to talk somebody out of jumping off a bridge after a couple hours, No. If your second child didn't begin walking as fast as your first would you give up on them, No. And I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley wouldn't give up on somebody either.

We are here to help because of the knowledge we have because we have been through these situations. We are not here to discourage people and sometimes when you give up on somebody that is what you are doing, discouraging them. We need to step up and help these people that have a hard time doing the things that need to be done.

My point is let's do the right thing and help these guys out and not discouraging them by giving up on them. I know I would appreciate it because I am one of these guys.

Thank you.
(I would like to thank BrainHurts for sticking with me.)

totally2confused, I am not sure what this is about, but I wanted to agree with you that a marriage cannot make it unless both people are committed.

That being said, when one is in an affair, there are best practices that we recommend in order to give that person the best possible chance. There are no guarantees, but those methods usually work in about 50% of the cases. When someone doesn't follow those practices, the chances of success go down farther and farther in my experience. In fact, when a poster won't follow those practices, it is usually hopeless.

When a poster won't follow those practices, I move onto a poster who will follow them because there is nothing more I can do for them. I don't take the time to post to someone who won't follow the advice being given because I can't help them. My time on this forum is very limited so I try to spend my time where it will have the greatest impact.

If that discourages some posters, I would respond that it discourages me when someone won't use the program. They should be discouraged if they don't take the advice. My goal is to help people learn and use this program. If someone is not here to do that, then I have no reason to post to them. Hope that makes sense.

I believe I do that. Everyone has a hard time doing these things. But if they won't do those things, there isn't much we can do. That is when I move onto a poster who is doing what needs to be done.

T2C,

Sometimes it's not that people give up on a poster, but more that it seems the poster needs time to find out that their approach is not working. You can only tell someone they are headed for a cliff so many times before you resign yourself to waiting for them to hit bottom and then go on a rescue mission.

Quite often spouses come back a month or a year later and are not refused, and most responders do not gloat as they were or are in the same place as you.

God Bless
Gamma

Exactly. People help those who are willing to do the work.

This program works whether your marriage does or not. That would be called personal recovery. PR is where I am currently, not just for myself, but for my children as well. I tried and tried and tried to save my marriage, it did not happen.

It is not a matter of posters giving up on you, but more of frustration of trying to but you, guide you and your sitting on your hands going but...but....but. That in itself is frustrating, your ask for help and do nothing with the excellent advice you are given. Believe me i did way too much of this myself and i could have been much further along than where i am now.

It takes action and implementation. It takes courage to do something that your are fearful of, however you are still stuck and hiding behing your fear.

You have 2 children who look up to you. A step outside your comfort zone is required.

I should also add that I don't typically continue to post to someone who has done the hard work and is through the worst but is just talking and working out the kinks in recovery. I think my talents lie in crisis management, whereas others are more talented in walking a person through the daily minutia.

Posters are here for help. They ask for help and are given help and then refuse to take the help or they do not want to implement it out only part of it. What do you suggest we do?

If you were an algebra tutor and the person didn't want to follow all the steps to solve the problems, what would you tell them? Would you keep spending your time helping them knowing they weren't going to follow your directions?

I do nutritional consulting for fast loss or muscle gain. My time is limited. I have never not been successful from a client willing to follow my methods exactly as outlined. With my limited time, I can choose to work with someone that will follow the steps or I can continue to work with someone that wants to deviate and then blame me for not being successful. I'm honest with my clients that I will help them every step of the way if they will adhere to my methods, if they don't, it's a waste of my time to keep trying and to come back when they're willing to follow the advice as given.

T2C: The professionals assisting the jumper on the bridge is doing their job. The parent who is helping their child is doing their job. I know, I've done both. And sorry, even those of us who worked with jumpers on bridges eventually use a taser and pull them down when they refuse to comply for hours.

However here, we are just peers. We are volunteers. We are here to help those who want to help themselves. Look at the number of people who come here asking for help - how on earth can people continue to follow stories for days (okay, doable), weeks (that's getting to be much), let alone months and YEARS when a person will not follow the advice or program?

I'm sorry, but that is what a hired professional is for. You cannot expect a volunteer to follow you for weeks and months when there are people who are waiting and willing to act on immediate help.

"The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page."

T2C:

Here is my personal take on what our calling is here, or at least mine:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2542642#Post2542642

The main part for me is this:


The big problem around here is usually motivating people to follow through with the plan.

I know that when someone is not following the plan, the most important thing they need to hear is "This isn't going to work, you are not going to make it." The comments along this line may sound like the helpers are giving up or encouraging the poster to give up, but they may still be just what the poster needs to hear to understand: if you continue on the route you are on, this will not work.

Now, none of us is obligated to help anybody. We can all decline to post for any reason, and while that may be discouraging to someone in trouble, we are all volunteers here, we all have lives and obligations, and sometimes we may just feel we are ineffective with someone.

I don't know your specific situation without looking at your thread, T2C, but let me say this:

As a guy, Dr. Harley says you have much more potential to win at fighting for your marriage, if you truly get on board with this program and are persistent. That does not mean that you should be a doormat and put up with a bad situation forever (remember, I am not cross referencing with your thread, so for purposes of this post I do not know your situation at all, even if I've posted to you before), but it does mean that if you will really REALLY get after it, scrape the information you need out of this website and the books and the radio show, and then actually DO it, persistently, you have a great chance of pulling off a successful marriage.

So GO FOR IT. Don't rely on the forum for hand-holding. I can tell you that there are things this forum never would have taught me that I needed to know to save my marriage. I learned those things mostly from the radio show. Get to reading, get to listening. Listen every day, buddy, because if your marriage is in crisis, you are going to need it. If you don't want to pay for the archives, search all over this forum for the many links that have been posted to archived shows, and listen to them all.

Read every article and listen to every show even if you do not think it applies to your situation, because believe it or not, it helps.

Where people fail is when they are lazy and expect to be spoon fed. You cannot always count on the volunteer help here to be present and available and to know every Marriage Builders answer, although we really do try!! I see many posters who ask the exact same questions over and over. It's really discouraging to volunteers when that happens. Spending two weeks encouraging someone to try and telling them what they need to do, and then they finally say "Okay, you've convinced me: now what do I need to do?" And my thought is: we are not on the telephone, don't be so lazy, reread your thread and read the articles here and put it into practice. People who are that lazy bail because what they are really looking for is a way to make things better without too much effort on their part, or sometimes they just want sympathy and empathy, which alone will not fix a marriage. Sometimes they come back every 2-3 years and when someone tries to offer help with Marriage Builders advice they don't even know what POJA is.

You can do this, without us. We (collectively) will be happy to help, if you are serious and energetic and can stay calm enough to stick to the plan. Educate yourself on the plan (constantly -- practice MB continuing education), commit to it, and come here for help through motivational swamps, emotional minefields, and creative wildernesses.

I found this site many years ago after discovering an affair by my now ExWW. I tried and tried and honestly can say that I gave it my all. The peeps here were very helpful and gave me great feedback. Without them, I would have NEVER had the stones to move forward with Plan D.

I am proud of the man I have become. Some marriages can be saved...others cannot. Only YOU can decided what's best for you.

Be strong, look deep inside yourself, and move forward with patience and caution. Best of luck. LG

hi t2c. i, too, don't know what sitch you're referring to. however, as a poster needing help and support, i found i received that when i was honest with my posting and responsive to recommendations and actually working the MB programme. it wasn't easy, especially as we are conditioned to only put the best picture forward. it is hard to admit that your spouse is a lying, cheating pig (especially when you don't/can't believe it), and even harder to try and recover that M. it was the other posters here who made it worth getting out of bed in the morning when i just wanted to die.

however, i can think of at least 1 thread right now where i'm not posting any more, because of the reasons outlined by the others here. when you're talking to a brick wall, it's frustrating, especially when there are so many new people here *every day,* and some of them are ready to do whatever it takes to make their marriage work and demonstrate more of a "need," if you want to put it that way. i, too, have very limited time to be on MB, and while i want to "pay it forward," i don't have much time to spend patting & petting when i'm getting nowhere, when others are also desperate for help but willing to give it a go. does that make sense?

sometimes, i think in some hard cases, they would be better served by getting in touch with the counselling centre and having professional help to move them along. i think sometimes people won't act because they think we're just faceless people on a message board, what could we possibly know? i try to direct those people to the centre, where they can get it from the horse's mouth. but i imagine even there they will be told if they don't fish or cut bait, nothing's going to change. some people are content to just plan c and kvetch.

Your marriage has cancer and a tumor that is growing every day. You can visit the oncologist, get his advice, you can research it on the net, join a discussion board, cry and moan about the cancer in your marriage, but until you start following the advice of the people who have BTDT and especially the advice of the expert -- in this case Dr. H is your oncologist, not a damn thing is going to stop that cancer from growing or spreading, until your marriage is dead. We're here to help you with the nuances of the treatment, but we can't do it for you. Educate yourself, pick a treatment, and get busy. I personally would go with the program that has the highest success rate --MB.

I'm dealing with cancer IRL, so I know of what I speak. Start treating your marriage with the recommended treatment or watch your marriage die a slow painful death. Your choice. And an easy one at that. Help others, learn by reading, listening to the radio show, read the books. The path to recovery is very narrow. There can be no cherry picking, not when it comes to life or death of your marriage. Want help? Help yourself first. We'll have your back. Know that, but we can't do it for you.

Ding ding ding!

Not being specific to Mel here, but the example is sufficient for the board in it's entirety.


Several posters are specialized to certain types of situations, or certain stages.

That isn't a BAD thing in any manner.

In fact, it's a better approach given that we are peers.

I want to take this time to apologize. This post came out from a fit of rage from a recent email. If you follow my other thread then you know about the email. I still believe some of the stuff I said and can understand the stuff that ya'll have said.

With that being said I do apologize again. I'm just tired of being walked all over, it has happened my entire life and enough is enough. It is time I start speaking my mind which I have done here and at work. Now it is time I start doing it in my marriage. I just didn't believe that my wife would be one of the ones to walk all over me but it happened.

Once again I apologize and I know everybody here knows when you are mad you say some stuff out of anger.

So what's your plan t2c?

No worries.


Dr. Harley says when you are angry, don't say or do anything, because when you are angry, you are insane, and anything you are thinking of to do or to say is going to hurt, not help, your cause.

I believe he's right!

But -- let us help you. Get back to your thread, and let's get you back in the game. I believe I posted several things to you the other day when you started this thread.

I'm headed back there now, just needed a few days to cool off.

BH I headed back to my thread to figure out how to do the best plan a I can up until the time I have to file for divorce to keep her from being able to file. I still have a good six, seven months before that happens.