OK - remember I have already exposed to her family, my family, the OM's fiancee. This was criticized as a trickle exposure, but really these are the only people that matter. Her family went for complete rejection - zero contact. They say they will only contact her if she commits to the marriage. Her father says she's no longer his daughter. No other exposure is going to have as big an effect as this. Repeat - she doesn't have close friends, mostly acquaintances and of course work colleagues. Remember I also got her to sign what's called in Germany a "pre-divorce agreement" on 1st May. What that does is say that a divorce is likely, and it pre-determines the outcome (like an amicable agreement) which would happen after 1 year.. no need for lawyers. In that agreement she gets nothing, so she knows what the consequences are, you can't get a stronger signal than that, right? Now she's having health issues (problems walking) and needs emotional support. Is it good to use the stick when you see progress?

Here are some extracts from my letter:
"I can only consider a future with you, as I would anyone else: a complete commitment on both sides, it cannot work any other way."
"The first commitment must be to give up all of the love territory, nothing less"
"There is therefore a time element at work here, that if you cannot make the necessary commitments, and I do not see by then a complete commitment, then I believe we will sadly have to go our separate ways."

Her response so far .. "the letter was firm but fair".

Ok so. Let's just say she continues the affair for the next 10 months. What are you going to do if at the last hour she TELLS you she is going to stop? Do you divorce her or cancel the agreement because she said she is willing to stop?

What do you do if after you cancel the agreement you find that they just went father underground and she just told you that so she could get anouther year out of you later?

You are stalling.

Jeremka, you are now trying to minimize the fact that you have not fully exposed this affair and are not doing anything to save your marriage.[except send a letter giving her more time to screw the OM] There are other exposure opportunities that you are ignoring because you choose to avoid conflict. Rather you send her a letter that actually broadcasts the fact that you are willing to sit on the sidelines and do nothing for months more. You have given her permission to carry on her affair for much longer and told her you will be sitting by the sidelines like a loyal pet.

That is not Plan A. Plan A is not appeasement and enabling. But that is ok. This is your marriage to lose. If you don't want to take the advice of those of us who have saved our marriages, that is your prerogative.

I wish you the best.

Hi, an update from me. So a week later she responded with a full letter saying that she is going to finish it. That she cannot bear a life without seeing kids everyday and that she will try to fall in love with me again. She sees a new person in me who loves even in the hard times. She still says clearly that shes fallen in love with him, but that when they finish it it will be for life. She says she has 2 choices to come back and pretend all is ok, or come back but asking me if I will accept her knowing the above. I feel in some ways she is pushing it back on to me firstly, and secondly she keeps reminding me she doesn't love me (although agrees she once did). Is she confusing love with being in love right now? should I ignore what she says until shes gone through the withdrawal from OM? Can I really trust the MB concepts on love that I can guarantee she will fall in love with me again. She's scared about the future, and doesn't believe it will happen with me. She tries to convince me that she can't love me, and I try to convince her that she can, but I'm not so sure if I never get to make her realise what she has in me via Plan B (you dont know what youve got until its gone).

She is partially cooperating on how to end it. She wanted to see him to say goodbye as they had promised each other. I put an instant stop to that, and she's since gone into depression. Now she is drafting a lengthy letter which she wont let me see, though she promises full transparency after finishing. What worries me here is how I can ever get back together without her ever having realised everything I do for her (without ever executing Plan B). Every day is tough now because she seems to be on the verge of finishing it, even saying I should consider it done. This is excruciating, but I also think to plan B now would be counterproductive. Any advice for the coming days / weeks?

Why are you letting your WS lead the recovery of your M? That's like being sober and choosing a drunk friend to drive you home in your own car.

Have you exposed the A yet?

On 10 June, I made the following points to you:

The life she had lived facilitated her infidelity. Does it make sense to let that life continue unchanged? No - your job right now is to RUIN that life, PILLAGE it, and leave it in RUINS....Until the affair is destroyed, this is NOT a cooperative exercise between you. It is a WAR between you.

You did not kill the affair, and take away her toy. Instead she got tired of it. She is coming back to you to recharge her batteries and select a new affair partner. I don't have to tell you this; she did:

She still says clearly that shes fallen in love with him...She tries to convince me that she can't love me...she is drafting a lengthy letter which she wont let me see...

Re-entering a life with her under the conditions you are has very little chance of success. You have already made up your mind, evidently, to be the doormat over which she will walk back into her prior life. Good luck with your decision.

I agree with MIM and NG. Time for plan B and see if she will love you when your not allowing her to party at will.

Hi all. An update from me. So after she ditched the OM, she was in depression for about 2 weeks until suddenly I got sick with a Pulmonary Embolism (which is a life threatening condition). Despite NGs accusation that I decided to be the doormat this was far from the case. My priority was 1) get rid of OM 2) set out conditions for a reunion. We were still separated at the time I got sick. And then suddenly she was there for me, like she had snapped out of her depression suddenly, having faced the prospect I might have died. Every day at the hospital with kids taking full care of me. I am sorry to say I could not have been in a weaker position lying on the trolley to ICU, asking God why this has happened to me after the betrayal and what has been the worst year of my life? But I believed she had woken up and remembered why we were together in the first place. She moved back while I was in hospital to take care of the kids. Within 2 weeks of regaining health I realised how unfortunate this was, my hand had been forced. Her depression returned and I started becoming so confused. My negotiating position had been destroyed through unfortunate circumstances. One 2 weeks ago, I discovered her messages she sent to the OM when finishing it (she would never let me see). They are the most romantic things I have ever read, they also leave the door open for the future. The last message she sent was the day after I got out of hospital, which said she will not look for him but think about him every day for the rest of her life. She alludes to the film "Bridges of Madison County" all the time. Now, here is my problem. Do I push on with this, knowing what I know, what I've read? I am 100% sure it is over there has been no contact since 21 July. The problem I am having is that we will never have anything like that which she experienced. Although I know her dopamine levels were going through the roof, but still, I have to have some pride in who I am. I need to be valued to have worth. We are getting along fine now, and caring for each other, she seems to have completely moved on, switched herself off from the past and erased her memory of it as a coping strategy. I cannot forget those words I have read however. It is harder for me. I'm not convinced that providing all ENs is a guarantee for future success and happiness. I am very very confused now. If I had simply Plan Bed her from Day One I am absolutely sure this would not have happened, but I was convinced that she would have fled with the kids. I have secured kids, money, location. I do still love her, but I doubt she will ever love me no matter what I do, and especially the way I have been so weak in allowing her back in. No criticism of the past please, but what do I do now? Is there a way to restore this via negotiation or do I just look after my happiness and go ahead with the divorce?

So what you are upset with now, is that she had this "fantasy" affair and that you and her are all business?

Now that she is home, why not try working on the marraige, as far as filling all her ENs? Why don't you try that on for size? Be the guy that sweeps her off her feet again.

Bridges of Madison County...Did you know that Clint Eastwoods wife said that was what he was really like in real life? So much for Dirty Harry..


As probably has allready been suggested, I would say you would do well to create romantic love again, and both of you could use the books to do this, as many marriges get stuck in a stale place, and people need a jackhammer to nudge it loose.

You have had that with the Embolism..Thank God you pulled through,and imagine what would have happened to her if you hadn't

Something new..Something different..Something Romantic?

Its not over yet..don't give up..shes with you because she loves you. Find strength in the weakness.

Re-read your thread. I think you will have to be firm and confidant in your actions with your FWW, barring any health issues with yourself of course, that might upset your condition.

If you get down to it, isn't what MB lays out as a marraige what we all strive for?

Really, we all have needs, emotional needs, that makes us weak and if we don't have them filled, we become even weaker. Then we must turn to God to fill them, when we don't have another to help us in those areas.

Take the simple road J, and bring out the books and use the EQs to see what she needs, and you too, and don't compromise one things on the list between the two of you.

I think you will find that it will be a deeper love than her fantasy ever was, and that there was never any movie she could compare it too.

Take charge, cool and calmly, with confidance you are doing what is the best for both of you, and don't let this idiot affair rob you one more second of what is yours, your wives heart.

Thanks for taking the time to re-read CP. I know there were many things I should have done differently both before, and as pointed out to me here, after. But we are where we are. My wife said to not dwell, and that I should feel like I won, which I guess I did.

Many Thanks CP for the encouraging words. All too often in life I have given up on certain things, having succeeded to some degree just to prove a point, and never followed through.

I also made a promise to myself to do everything I can to give this a chance. I guess it would seem crazy to give up now having gotten this far.

I'm going to read some of the recovery material to get some ideas, and see how far we can progress things from here.

Thanks again to everyone here on MB for both support and constructive criticism, it has been an invaluable to me.

J

There you go, it sounds like you've answered your own question. You have this second chance, best to take advantage of it and give it all that you have.

I think us betrayeds play the worrying "what if" game for some time. It gets a bit easier, though, once you are both on board with really making it work.

I'd keep an eye out, though, for any contact. Trust but verify, as the saying goes.

Hi.. an update from me. we moved into the new place together and after she came out of depression things improved. sex life returned and I continue to work on all ENs. There was one huge setback in march when she contacted the OM to wish happy birthday. This quickly escalated into "next time you are driving nearby, let me know". I reacted very strongly, enough was enough. I said if she wants to live the fantasy, go ahead. This was the first time where I actually felt totally on top, it felt good, because I really didnt care anymore. Faced with a life of "what if" or a broken family, I WILL choose the broken family. Since then things have been a lot better. There are still grievances however. She keeps mementos of him, which have now been removed from my sight, but still are a thorn in my side. She says she will never let go, and she says she is still not sure about us. I have also discovered (after all these years) that we have very different attachment styles (me anxious, her avoidant) and I do worry about our general compatibility for the long term. I still do so want to make it work, and weve just come back from 2 week vacation alone without the kids. We have become much closer again, the sex has really improved and I feel we are closer. However I know there are limits with her and it always seems as though she becomes avoidant and uninterested just when I am convinced shes coming round to loving me again. It is therefore not 100%, there still remains this doubt and I wonder how much longer I should give or what methods I can follow to get a definitive answer. I fear she will forever hold on to "the one", and forever prevent me from ever getting too close. In that case I will never achieve full satisfaction in the relationship. Should I live with that for the sake of my kids? Surely my life has some worth too.

Your letting her keep the mementos was a mistake. Demanding fidelity is not wrong.

I don't recall if you have a keylogger or cell phone spyware, but I'd bet that she's still in contact with him.

jeremka,

There was one huge setback in march when she contacted the OM to wish happy birthday. This quickly escalated into "next time you are driving nearby, let me know".

She keeps mementos of him

Either one of these would be intolerable deal breakers for most people, your W is still a WW and the fantasy of OM has not died.

Did you ever properly expose the OM, and did you relay this latest contact to the OMW?

Did you ever expose your WW? Your WW seems only to respond to threats, she has not reformed on the inside.

I'm sorry that you are still at this point after so much time.

God Bless
Gamma

OMG Jeremka, Norwood is correct, demanding fidelity is not wrong.

For all the men who have been castrated by this society I wish you the best, if this is what we call healthy.

It may sound excitable to you but, "God in heaven help him"

She is not FWW, you are not in recovery. You have altered MB plan so much, this is not it. You still haven't grown some ___, you are still afraid to take control of your own life, your marriage, and your children's future! I just read this thread in one sitting, and it gives a clear picture. This isn't a place to come to and offer your mixed up plan and try to get approval on it. MB HAS a plan that works if followed, it leads to either marital recovery or personal recovery. You are continually triggered because you KNOW she has "momentos" of him. As long as she continues to write him "happy birthday" or "want to see you again", you are NOT in recovery! Stop fooling yourself! I would go to Plan B and stop filling her EN along with OM! Go on here and read what Plan B is and post yours before you give it to her. Prepare to cut her off finances, home, change locks, etc. Do NOT support her in her affair!

What Kay said