Ok but the problem is she will have a go at me over something petty, as an example it's Saturday night and I've finished my second beer. I decide to have a third beer and she cracks it with messaging haven't I had enough already and I drink too much. Or another example is we might be sitting watching TV and I decide to have a bowl of chips (crisps). I haven't had any for ages but one time I do this she is ok with it. Then another time she will get mad and say why do I need to eat them blah blah.
Then an argument starts and we both get mad and font talk for the rest of the night or possibly for two days.
I want to know how I'm supposed to deal with these situations? Am I just supposed to agree with everything she says and in the meantime not be allowed to do anything unless she lets me? That's going to build resentment.

Kenny, would your girlfriend be interested in posting here?

Stop drinking and stop noshing. Your third drink and bowl of crisps bother her. If you don't think she is more important than those items, then move on and find someone who is. You are single after all.

@ marital bliss... No way in the world would she post on here. She thinks forums are a waste of time and would probably be angry that I eas sharing this information with strangers despite the anonymity.

@ CWMI.... She is important enough for me to stop the crisps and beer but my point is I don't drink 3 beers everynight or eat the crisps everynight. On another night where she is in a better mood her daughter might open some crisps and I eat them without any problems at all.
I'm convinced she's perimenopausal and this is causing a lot of her mood swings. She was with her ex husband for 16 years and he said she was never like this. (through their daughter he's aware of the arguing and fighting we do and actually said he doesn't know how I put up with it)

She is very late for her period so is either starting menopause or is PG. She struggles to get PG and used IVF for her second daughter due to polycystic ovaries. But....She was pregnant from me about a year ago. She ended up mis-carrying a month later.

No complaint is too small to a buyer. A buyer says: "your problems, however tiny, are my problems" However a renter will say something like: "That complaint is not my responsibility. Taking into account tiny concerns that only upset you is not my job. You will have to sort that out and figure out why you are so upset".

A buyer will say: "If my eating crisps bothers you, tonight or any night, or even just occasionally, you only have to say the word and I will take your complaint seriously."

It's like the difference between renting and owning a home. Her complaint about crisps is like getting a notice from the landlord that he considers there is a need to carry out works on it (they are both notifications that all is not well). The renter will say: "That's your problem. The work is only important to you, so you should do it'. (Or like your saying to your GF: 'I have no interest in something that upsets you, unless I think it is important or upsetting too')

Whereas a buyer will say to their co-owner: 'Oh, do we need to do something to do the property? Let's see what can be done. I'm concerned about the cost but let's sit down and work out the priorities........) etc

The small things are EVERYTHING in a relationship. If you fail to consider her in small tests, you won't pass large ones. There are many more small things in life, than large ones. Someone who irritates us in small ways, and doesn�t listen when we speak up, is someone who will make us very unhappy over things we don�t feel we can leave them for. It creates a limbo 'Don't want to stay and can't go' situation she is in with you right now.

A woman once wrote to Dr H about hating the way her husband chewed. She said her H had patiently listened to her complaint, and had improved his chewing slightly, but it still bugged her. She was reluctant to keep going on about it because she thought it was 'petty'. Dr H congratulated her on letting her H know something was amiss. He said a slight improvement in the H's chewing wasn�t good enough and the woman should be more assertive in getting the job done. He said they should sit down together and the woman should teach her husband to chew in the exact same way that she chews, not stopping until he gets it right.

You do understand too, that if her complaints ARE a result of feeling hormonal, ill and unwell that it is even more important to make her feel happy and comfortable? The small things affect us even more if we are stressed at work, grieving, or ill. It is not a reason to dismiss the complaints and carry on regardless.

In fact, if she has less patience and is more inclined to speak out these days due to her condition, that is great news for the two of you. Every complaint is an opportunity for you to act as a buyer and move this relationship from a renters one to a buyers one.

However, this sort of work is usually done after marriage when the commitment is sealed. Before marriage, Dr H encourages us to find people who are very easy to be around, and with whom POJA is effortless.

This is why living together is a bad idea if you aren't committed. There are too many opportunities and 'petty things' to lovebust over, if you arent buyers yet.

How familiar are you with POJA?

Ive read POJA and understand the concept. I suppose I thought it had more to do with big decisions like going out or buying something expensive, not just small things like how much beer can I drink.

Last night we had a fight. Yesterday morning she was all over me kissing me cuddling me and all that. We did some shopping after work and had dinner. She took a PG test and it was negative so she was releived about that. When we hopped in bed she rolled over to go to sleep and I said Goodnight and she just replied goodnight back. I asked if I can have a kiss and she sighed, moaned and cracked it. I said stop treating me so nastily and she said , "stop being a bloody sook" then she went on to say that I was smothering her and she told me we had to take things slowly. I told her that I cant read minds and its a bit hard when one minute shes nice to me and all over me kissing and cuddling and the next she's complaining that Im smotherimng her and how am I supposed to know when she does want to be kissed or she doesn't.
Then I spooned her to go to sleep but she started complaining that I was twitching as I dozed off and it was keeping her awake. I said to her that last night I spooned her because she was cold and wanted me to warm her up and she didnt complain about me twitching, but tonight its different.
I dont know I think she checked out a long time ago possibly cant stand me anymore and is probably resentful that she's stuck in the house with me until our lease expires. The way she speaks to me sometimes is wrong, its with so much contempt and lack of any respect. Like she just wished I would go away and drop dead somewhere and leave her alone.

No because small things can make us unhappy too. POJA says not to do ANYTHING that is the cause of our spouses unhappiness.

But you've got your work cut out for you, because the two of you can't even decide what your relationship status is!

Your under one roof sharing one life and neither one of you has a clue where you're headed.

That's why renters relationships are abusive. Your trying to get a free and single woman to act like she belongs to you against her will. She is trying to keep a free and single man in her house without offering him any commitment.

Why not just date until you can POJA a real living saituation that actually works? Marriage!

There's no way the two of you are up to the task of POJAing all the small details of life when she's not even sure she wants to be with you in the first place. Why should she?

I refer you back to MLanes early post


You both have renters attitudes and if you keep living together under this rental agreement you will constantly be running into fights and depleting each other love bank.

Is the house big enough (2 bedrooms) for one of you to stay there with a different roommate? While the other moves out?

Every time she gives you a complaint you have the opportunity to show her you are open to complaints and you throw the opportunity away.



You let this escalate. When she said no, say 'OK' and leave it at that. Why did you ask if it wasn't ok for her to say no?

As for the way she phrases herself and speaks to you, I would have brought that up another time and in a calmer way instead of as a weapon to defend yourself with here.



You're very keen on nights being the same and for the rules being the same each night aren't you?!

Why for heavens sake? What doesnt annoy us one night, may annoy us the next. Someone playing loud music on a stereo is fun one night and gives us a headache the next. Your girlfriend told you she was unncomfortable, not in the mood for it right NOW and your response should have been 'OK'.



It is very difficult and painful to live with someone who isn't signed up to forever. Or even right now.

So I would suggest you not do it.

Seriously, you are the voluteer here.

Dr. Harley, to a man whose wife felt he was controlling:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5043b_qa.html


My wife is enthusiastic about me brushing my teeth. She wouldn't be enthusiastic about a single can of beer, though, unless I'm cooking bratwurst in it, and even then, she'd probably rather it go in bread or something.

The house is two storey three bedroom but if I moved out I would have to go and live with my mum, something I really don't want to do. She says she has somewhere to go but it wouldnt be ideal for her to move as her daughter walks to our house after school.

I know we're both living like renters and I know I have to be mindful of her feellings and not think any complaints are petty. But it's just hard. I got up to close the laundry door last night that she had left open and when I got back into bed she cracked it because I moved the doonah slightly and she was cold.

Then after all what happened last night I sent her a text this morning saying have a good day at work and she replied TY U2 xxox and sent a row of kiss icons.
So Very confusing for me. I'm happy to live in the house and co exist as sort of room mates until she decides if she wants us to try again or not but it's hard to do when one morning she's all over me kissing and cuddling me and that night she cracks it because I ask for a good night kiss.

@ indiegirl... I see your point here. I am comparing one night thinking it should be the same everynight and then getting upset when it's not.
I will try not to do that anymore.
She's not signed up to forever or right now at the moment because she wants things to improve with us. Wants to see that I am taking steps to try and improve which I slowly am, just not with everything ATM.

Mind you we seem to take one step forward two steps backwards sometimes.
I really don't know what she's thinking. For all I know she's just keeping me here until our lease expires in October and she has no further use for her.
I thought about calling her bluff and telling her I'm moving out and start packing my stuff but then what would that really prove. That she loves me and wants to stay in a relationship with me or that she just wants me there to pay the rent.

The main issue here is she's offering you a lousy deal and you're taking it.

She's saying 'hang on in hope' and you say 'OK'

That doesn't set a very good precedent for your having an equal say in marriage.

It's better to have healthy boundaries and say 'This isn't working for me and I'm off. Call me when you have a better deal'.


That's called dating. You assess each other for marriage while dating. If she wants you to improve and she wants to wait until she is ready, she can't have you at her beck and call with needs meeting at home on tap and Financial Support to boot. In the meantime.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Do it for real for three reasons. 1) you aren't ready for a living situation either of you and would find it much easier to POJA a dating relationship than all the details of a full time life together.
2)Never bluff in love. Mean what you say and say what you mean.
3)POJA means not accepting a situation you don't want, which builds resentment. And you don't want this poor deal.

She's told me that she just needs space and time at the moment and if I can't give her that then I need to move out.
What choice do I have but do that? I really don't want to move out. I would have to move all of my stuff into storage and live in my mums dinghy unit until I can get enough money together to rent my own place.
The other morning she admitted she did love me and really wanted us to work and a few days later she was very sexually excited with me and wanted sex but held off because she doesn't want that until we're back on track.

She also admitted that going out two weekends in A row was sheer coincidence that she was invited out and wasn't done on purpose to try and show me she's moved on. She's not going out this weekend and is happy to spend the weekend with me. It's our two year anniversary on Monday and I was going to take her to a Restuarant for dinner.
I suppose I really just need to be mindful that anything she says no matter how petty is a genuine complaint and act on it in her best interests and not think that just because she's all over me one day doesn't mean she will be the next.

Now that we know she's not PG. Shes more open to the idea that she might be perimenopausal which before she refused to accept. She's going to book in for a blood test and hopefully will go on HRT if she is.

Hi Kenny, I've been following along since posting early in your thread. Up to now, I didn't have anything else to offer that others have been saying, and my advice was in line with theirs - if your girlfriend is asking for time and space and says you're smothering her, then I think you should move out. Living apart will give you clarity on your relationship that you can't get while living together. But I know you really love her and don't want to move out for fear of losing her; that makes it very difficult to listen to the advice of many who are telling you to move out.

I mentioned in my first post that I'm reading Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders. You would do yourself a huge favor to buy that book and read it. It will transform the way you view your relationship, in a positive way. Seriously, I urge you to read it.

The quote earlier in your thread that Melody Lane inserted, from the article Living Together Before Marriage: Compatibility Test or Curse, is taken from the book Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders. I recently finished reading that chapter, and it ends with this:

Dr. Harley says that although it is dangerous to live together before marriage, the danger can be avoided if you and your girlfriend become Buyers. You can learn some of what that means on this website and the forums, but the best way is to buy the book and read it. Whether you move out or not, both of you learning to become Buyers is the best way to ensure the longevity of your relationship.

A buyer looks for long term solutions, and avoids short term solutions that are harmful in the long run.

Staying in a co-habitation situation is only helpful to you financially in the short term. Long term, it will destroy your relationship - and then you wil be forced to find a place on your own anyway.

It also gives the impression to your girlfriend that you are hanging on for financial reasons, at least partly. It will impress her much more if you court her while supporting yourself and show her that the relationship is more important than money.

Thanks keeplearning I definitely need to get that buyers renters and freeloaders book. At the moment she's acting like a freeloader. This morning I was spooning her and my alarm went off. I hit snooze and cuddled back up to her. When the alarm went off the second time she cracked it and said "bloody hell I don't need to be woken up ten times"
Once upon a time she woukdnt have cared That's typical of her behaviour lately. We used to always kiss and cuddle a lot before I went to work in the morning. But now if I try to cuddle her and give her a kiss good bye she gets cranky because I've woken her up.

I don't know if it's just a phases he's going through, if she's just doing this because she has it in her head she needs to stay mad at me or...if she's just trying to be as nasty as possible so I will eventually check out and she doesn't have to feel guilty.

Wednesday night she cracks it with me and says to stop smothering her. I said to her how am I supposed to know when I can and cant kiss you. One minute your all over me. The next you don't want a bar of me?? She said she will kiss me when she wants to be kissed.
So Thursday night I get home from work say hello to get have a quick chat then go for my walk come back and have a shower. I'm sitting on the couch next to her and every now and again she just looks over at me. I have my hand on her leg rubbing her leg but that's it, giving her space like she wanted. But she's very short sharp and abrupt trying to start fights over everything and anything. I make sure I remain calm and don't bite just trying to be nice.
Then all of a sudden she says. " your only all over me trying to kiss me when it suits you"
WHAT?? "You told me I was smothering you and to give you some space so that's exactly what I was doing", is my reply.
She says I've gone from one extreme to the other. And I said ofcourse I have because you told me you would kiss me when you felt like being kissed and you haven't yet.

Can someone please explain to me what the hell is up with that?? She wants space and doesn't want to be smothered but then when I give her that she gets angry because I'm not showing her any affection. I would really like to understand what her mindset is with this behaviour. It's like I don't want you all over me but I don't like it when your not giving me any attention.

We're going away this weekend (her idea) she said its something we need,so let's see how it goes. But judging on her lately I can see us coming back early as it doesn't seem to take much to get her in a bad mood.

@ indiegirl... Financially she is better off if I stay not me. I'm better off if I go as I pay the rent now and wouldnt have to if I moved to my mums house.
But as our lease expires in mid October I was giving us until then to see if we can sort this out or once the lease expires separate for good.

Ok, but it sounds like there will be a lot of lovebusting between now and October. If you want to bust down your feelings for each other daily, that's the way to go.



Her love bank is lower now. Women tend to exhibit the symptoms of a lower lovebank before men. Men can endure more.


By 'sort out' do you mean get married? In just one months time? Or do you expect to continue on this trial-basis relationship? Trial basis relationships are rentals which are always abusive.

Sort it out properly by working towards marriage and setting a high bar for the right candidate.