ok had a 1hr talk with wife this morning and both of us in tears at various points, i remained calm and gently thoughout trying to ensure no LB.

to sum up, she basically said that she feels a fool for been here now for believing me in the past and she is also very very scared of leaving and been without our son. Her believe is that i will get aggresive\nasty\angry etc if she decides to leave and i fight for custody of our son. I asked if she wants to try and save our marriage etc and that i can be the man she wants to stay with and she cannot say either yes or no that there is so much hurt built up over time just lots of little things as well. She does see the changes in me already buts doesnt know if even with the changes i will still be the man she wants to be with

I asked but having some time for the changes to continue and improve and see if her feelings change etc. To this she said how long does she wait until she is 50? and then live a lie and waste her life. I suggested about 6months and she said more until the end of the year. I said during that time i would continue to keep my changes and improve them and let her see, and that i would keep showing her the respect\admiration\affection etc during that time as well. She said she has nothing to give back right now (which i understand and know comes in time, where feelings follow actions). I did say that if she feels nothning etc could change then she is free to walk away now and to that she said she has nowhere to go. She then said we could talk about this plan and a timeframe with our counciller at the next meeting (1.5 weeks time due to her been on holiday)

So where does it leave me, i am not 100% sure, but it seems and feels like from her txts and talking that she wants to say "we will try and give it some time" etc but without actually been able to come out with the words and say it, so says it in a roundabout way. She tells me i over analysye everything and i did explain to her it was becuase i was getting mixed messages like she would txt one thing and then follow it up with another trying to recide it (she even did this in a councilling session) I know this is going to be hard and i have to gain her heart and belief in me without anything in return which i expect. Whilst talking about giving it some time i did say when we get to the end of the timeframe we review how we both feel and if things are getting better etc then we do another x timeframe and so on. I have also said to her if there is anything i can do to make her feel less scared\frightend then to tell me and i will do whatever it takes.

So thats the situation now, any advice and support on how i can fufill EN's of affection, admiriation, family commitment, conversation etc would really be appreciated. There is definately NO touching allowed as she doesnt feel comfortable with it right now and also trying to take her out on my own is not something she would entertain right now and that makes her feel like i am been controlling and pressurizing

dave, there is no magic pill to make your wife fall back in love with you today. you have to keep pushing on over time, regardless of how she responds. eventually, if you keep doing it, she will start to feel love again. you just have to keep going. it is good that you are working on cleaning up your side of the street. good job!

Remember: Feelings follow actions. Right now, her actions are following her feelings.

I'm trying to help you here Dave.

Affection is the expression of care. It symbolizes security, protection, comfort and approval -- vital ingredients in any relationship. When one spouse is affectionate toward the other, the following messages are sent:

You are important to me. I will care for you and protect you.

I'm concerned about the problems you face and will be there for you when you need me

A simple hug can say those things. And there are many other ways to show our affection: A greeting card or an "I love you" note; a bouquet of flowers; holding hands; walks after dinner; back rubs; phone calls; and conversations with thoughtful and loving expressions. All of these can effectively communicate affection.

Whenever I counsel a man who is not very affectionate, I give him a list of things to do every day. (I usually make up the list with his wife who tells me what to include.) He must do each of them and check them off the list as he does it. Here is a general example.


Hug and kiss your wife and tell her you love her every morning while you're still in bed. Rub her back for a few minutes before you get up.

Tell her that you love her while you are having breakfast together.

Kiss her and tell her you love her before you leave for work.

Call her during the day to ask how she is doing and that you love her.

After work, call her before you leave to tell her when you will be home, and tell her you love her.

Buy her flowers on the way home at least once a week, with a card that tells her you love her.

When you arrive home from work, give her a big hug and kiss and spend a few minutes talking to her about how her day went. Don't do anything else before you have given her your undivided attention.

Tell her that you love her as you are having dinner together.

Help her clear off the table and wash and dry the dishes with her, giving her a hug and kiss at least once, and tell her that you love her.

Hug and kiss her and tell her you love her in bed before you both go to sleep.

As the weeks go by, I have the wives review the list to be certain there isn't anything in it that they object to, or that should be added.

You can meet the need for affection without touching her. in fact, knowing as you do that it makes her uncomfortable, you are being affectionate by respecting her wishes.

Hug and kiss your wife and tell her you love her every morning while you're still in bed. Rub her back for a few minutes before you get up.

Tell her that you love her while you are having breakfast together.

Kiss her and tell her you love her before you leave for work.

Call her during the day to ask how she is doing and that you love her.

After work, call her before you leave to tell her when you will be home, and tell her you love her.

Buy her flowers on the way home at least once a week, with a card that tells her you love her.

When you arrive home from work, give her a big hug and kiss and spend a few minutes talking to her about how her day went. Don't do anything else before you have given her your undivided attention.

Tell her that you love her as you are having dinner together.

Help her clear off the table and wash and dry the dishes with her, giving her a hug and kiss at least once, and tell her that you love her.

Hug and kiss her and tell her you love her in bed before you both go to sleep.

As the weeks go by, I have the wives review the list to be certain there isn't anything in it that they object to, or that should be added.

Your wife has given you something that she objects to, the touching so you just eliminate that aspect and use the other tips.

Some other ideas, are helping her carry things, or helping her with household chores. I used to love it when my H worried about me going somewhere after dark, or worried about my vehicle's safety because that said: "You are important to me. I will care for you and protect you".

I have friends who love notes. They can't get enough of love notes, or messages written in the bathroom mirror for them or on the kitchen chalkboard.

at the moment my wife is beginning to trust and believe the counciller which is a great asset and the counciller is defiantely all about saving and reconciling marriages.

What is your counselor's plan to save your marriage?

Dave. There has been so much destruction and betrayal in this marriage that I am afraid that just becoming a nice guy who is a great housemaid is not going to cut it.

Call Dr. Harley.coaching center. Your counselor is pro MB and I bet that she would be HONORED to have insight and advice from the man who wrote the book. Reach out to every avenue that you can. Your current path does not seem to be working.

I will certainly suggest this to her in my next session

just re-read this bit, and i am definately understanding the feelings follow actions side, but can you elaborate a little more on how you mean her actions are following her feelings?

Let me put it this way. How many people would use their rational mind to convince themselves that an A is indeed the best option for a M? How many people use their rational, logical mind and convince themselves that lying, deceiving and stabbing their mate in the back is the way to go??

Most people that are wayward are driven by their emotions. This is the basis for how they live their lives and how they make their decisions. This is one way that they justify their actions.

They believe that actions should follow emotions because that is how they FEEL. This is flawed logic in every sense. Hence, �Fog�

Or, taking it a step further, how many people would use their logical, rational mind and think that swinging is in the best interest of the M?

I doubt you sat down and made a list of the pros and cons of whoring your wife out and came to a logical decision that it was in everyone's best interest.

You were using your emotions as a basis to make your decisions to have fun....am I right?

Seems to me she is now just following the lead of what she was taught by you.

Bitter pill my friend�.

dave, you say you are doing the stuff we recommend, for two weeks so far, and you haven't seen any results. my point is that it is TOO SOON to see any results, and you have to keep going. you have a hell of a mess to clean up. keep working your side of the street. it takes a LONG time. weeks are nothing. two weeks is only like day 1, if that. you have years of work ahead of you. not that it will take years for the results you're wanting (reciprocation), but years to rebuild once you get that far. it will take months (and possibly even more months) for what you want right now.

I'm glad you are not expecting a quick turnaround.

Your wife will likely be very withdrawn from you while she is processing the end of her affair.

What you need to do is monitor and spy to make sure she is not still in contact with him.

Stop pushing for a deadline or commitment. Just get her agreement to end contact with him.

Did I lose everyone's help n support???