I have read those articles, and agree with the premises. I thought I was doing well to wait until we were engaged, because then the folks were Buyers and not Renters. I think that was one of our strong points, day to day treated one another with the Buyer mentality and not the Renter one.

I think we got engaged a lot sooner than we would have if I wasn't adamant about not moving in together until then. Maybe I need more hindsight on this. My mom said a year ago that L was pushing too fast, and I needed to stop pressuring myself to be ready for a certain date. I felt torn because I think marriage, a permanent family, would give the kids and I stability. I'm sure I was pushing too fast, too.

And then in July my mom and I had a falling out because L told her and my stepdad he had been out of contact with his son for a long time. I didn't think he had changed his story then, because he had told me something similar up front. I don't know if that's too much detail but it was the details she was concerned over. My mom tends to obsess over details she remembers wrong so I wasn't too worried. But then in October when his son was having trouble and L didn't follow up very well I got more concerned.

So he's falling out with his DS17 was from his own doing? Does his DS17 live with his mom?

Is he still living with you?

Sometimes moms have an uncanny radar

Also, I say again how sorry I am NED. I know you must be hurting right now.

NED, this is my biggest regret in my 2nd marriage - I was high on MB principles and believed that my xH was on board (he said he was!) - so we had a whirlwind romance and marriage. I did not check into his background as thoroughly as I should have because I was so ready to be "a family" again.

I'm so glad you found out before you married him. You're a wise woman.

I have one rule that I will never compromise in my quest for love ... those who fail at raising their kids can never obtain buyer status and should be avoided in all dating relationships. That kind of selfishness and disrespect will be present no matter how one tries to mask it.

The mere fact a man has his child in another state no matter the circumstances will never be good quality marriage material. It should be huge red flag that they lack the simple concept of proper care. How can one care for their spouse yet not put that same kind of care into their children?

A decent loving parent would fight until the end to obtain at least 50% custody. Any parent who simply rolls over and lets those kids be raised in the hands of the other parent should speak volumes about how much effort they'd put into their new relationships...i.e. very little effort. If they do put a great amount of effort into the new relationship yet won't put the same amount of effort into raising their kids again speaks huges volumes about their character.

Buyers not only demonstrate proper care and thoughtfulness in their marriage but also garner an integrity and respectful character to those around them.

Just my 2cents!!!

How are you doing, NED? I'm worried about you and sending hugs your way. I'm sure it's super-tough and I am sad for you.

Are you having second thoughts? I'd struggle with that, especially if he had other really great qualities...so painful.

His DS17 lives with his mom now, but was living with the grandparents when they lost contact. DS17 had gotten into some trouble and the grandparents moved him, and that was when L lost contact. But he wasn't hard to find. L is planning to move out at the end of next month.

Z that's exactly it, felt something was missing and wanted to be a family again. I think I was checking enough for the information I had, and when that information gap got bigger I looked some more. I am so glad I did get the information in time. In July I was feeling like I wished I had gone ahead with the original marriage date.

HSH I won't even pretend to understand how that works. My Dad was a stand up guy who stayed and help raise his stepson and gave him a ton of at home medical help after work every day, very dedicated. Even though he was out of my brother's and my life for 10 years. So that was something that hurt a lot but I thought maybe it was okay. Now I know for me it is too sore of a spot to go again.

Z, I felt relief at first but now with the kids back at their dad's the sadness has set in again. We're going out of town for the weekend though, that's a bright spot to look forward to.

I strongly encourage you to look at this more ... your dad may have been the one who raised his step-son but it was at an extremely high price, i.e. the expense of your brother and you.

You are still comfortable with sacrifice at your expense, and each and every time this will destroy you.

I am not going to quantify or give your father a DJ, but I do want to let you know it was selfish of him to raise another man's child while sacrificing his own. Look at the amount and hurt and bad habits that have been built over they years by you and your brother due to the actions of your father.

I have a lot of girlfriends who don't quite get the sacrifice notion yet ... I constantly tell them having a partner who understands nothing is a greater gift to their relationship than having a partner who understands sacrifice in the relationship means utter destruction to them both.

Find someone who will treasure you by not making you sacrifice. You will be so much more successful in making your family work.

HSH, he raised two sets of stepchildren, one from the OW, that was the same time as my brother and I. And then my stepbrother is the same age as my kids, I hadn't thought of it like that, but yes it was at the expense of the grandkids. They didn't get to do the things with their grandpa that we did with our grandparents because his stepson needed a lot of time and attention. It's all water under the bridge now, my dad passed away in 2010.

But all this stuff L does for my kids, you're right, his son needs that care. I told him in October that I wish he would go and see to him I would wait here. That's what I would do if one of my kids was in trouble.


So true! I feel a long way off from that, but everything in time.

That's hard. And you have to wait for him to leave, which means you are on hold before getting your life back and being able to heal. ((((NED))))

So the weekend is with him? I hope you enjoy, though I'm sure will be bittersweet. I think breakups are some of the toughest things in the world.

You deserve a caring relationship, one of extraordinary care. And YOU WILL FIND IT because you have high standards and will accept nothing less.

Thankfully no the weekend is me, the kids and my mom, at Disney. We've never been able to take a vacation together because my mom always had to work too many hours. Now she has a bad knee, but I think she'll be open to renting a scooter. If nothing else she can relax at the resort.

SOOO Glad! Enjoy your time away.

Sounds like perfect timing.

Hey NED, I'm glad you're getting away with the family as well. Have a good time and enjoy. It's bittersweet but you'll make it through; your kids love you and that's what really matters right now.

Thanks guys! I am sad too but I feel more relieved. I guess I thought everyone had big doubts like this.

I'm sorry, NED.

One of the hardest things for me is to get quiet and ask, "How does it feel - deep down - to be with him?"

The other hardest thing is to actually take care of myself, if that feeling isn't a good one. I've been working on this for a year, and it's still tough! (I keep letting people into my life that I don't feel good about - it's a bad habit!)

I don't know for sure, but perhaps you sometimes take care of everyone but you? You are kind, respectful and compassionate. These are beautiful qualities...are you showing yourself the same kindness, respect and compassion that you give to others?

(Listen to me, I sound so Oprah!)

Hugs to you, my dear friend.

Oh man, that was the hard part, though. I felt so safe and connected. I'm not a high-strung person, but I am very sensitive to LBs, and L really put me at ease with that. Coming from a very high-conflict marriage, I didn't see it coming that part of the low conflict was that L was telling me what I wanted to hear and another part was I wasn't comparing his words and actions enough in the beginning especially. I've read we should be able to weed out someone in 2 months.

That taking care of myself, taking my taker to the table is something I'm still working on. A break up gives a lot of practice!

Something that I learned dating the 30+ men is the ones that doesn't engage in some kind of conflict (conflict avoider) is 99% of the time likely a liar. Dr. Harley mentioned one time that he and Joyce have a lot of conflict during the day, but they are able to resolve it quickly through POJA.

Remember POJA has two vital parts
1) The knowledge you will not sacrifice
2) 100% radical honesty

I learned the ones who say what you want to hear and who are the quiet go along with whatever are likely to be strong liars.

It is a learned behavior in most of them ... a bad habit they grew up with and now implement it in their adult relationships.

The fact L made you safe from little to no conflict (versus your first marriage) was because he believed in sacrifice and was a dishonest person.

Both extremes (High Conflict/Conflict Avoiders) are very dangerous, and should be avoided at all costs.

Instead look for the ones that are okay with saying ... I don't like that, I'd handle that different, or that is something I don't do. That is actually an honest person who is comfortable telling you the truth even if it isn't something you want to hear. This opens a great opportunity for you to start to see if they are open to POJA.

Online daters are actually kind of good here. Some will actually negotiate with you to find a good place to eat or meet? When I am asked if I would like to meet, I always respond with, "Yes, what are your suggestions (coffee or lunch)?" This opens the door for them to come back and show you if they are okay with suggestions, i.e. "I would like coffee, does this place at this location work, or would you prefer this other place?"

You just start like that ... it is amazing the online daters you can weed out this way. I usually don't give the ones that say to me, "I don't care...it is up to you...etc." much consideration because I have always found them to be more conflict avoiders. I want honesty from the get go...!

i.e..."Thank you for telling me you don't like that, what would you like instead?"

i.e..."Thank you for telling me you don't do that or prefer to handle it a different way. What are your suggestions?"

My 2cents!

HSH, thanks for sharing all this, I had no idea. Have you seen Frozen? I was one of the ones shocked by the ending. I expect the "bad guy" to be obvious about it.

Hey NED, how was the weekend away? I hope it was fun and relaxing for you guys. Sending positive thoughts and prayers in your direction!

We had fun at the beginning of the weekend, but then the second day my mom got horrible food poisoning and I had to take her back to the hotel. The poor thing. At least we got a lot of good quality time together before that. I got a lot of good individual time with each of the kids, and they each got time with my mom, too.

When I got back last night, my fiance wanted to talk, he went to see an IC and the IC thinks we can work this out together. He asked what did I want to see, and I think I explained it well without DJs. I said several times that this is hard to say because I don't want you to feel judged in any way. Just I need certain things to feel like I can believe in him going forward and they aren't there. He knew I was bothered with his past, the losing contact with his son for many years, and I was trying to look for reasons that today things are different and I'm not finding it. I described some things that would tell me things are different today, like flying up to be with his son when he had a medical emergency a couple of months ago, or getting paperwork that I could believe this story that he has filed for divorce in 2010 before we got together in 2012. But made it clear it's not my place to ask him to change, and I accept his choices. It was so hard to say all that, but these are all things he is perfectly comfortable with, so he looked very relieved. He said now he understands, that we hadn't talked about it very much the night we broke up.