20 that is taking MY words out of context. That was the last sentence of a paragraph that had nothing to do with telling you that you were wrong and I was right.

I am confused at why you are taking these varying opinions so personally.

I did this. I felt I was in direct competition with the OW so I strived to make myself be the better option. Stupid? Maybe. Successful? To a point. But I don't regret it. Like I said, I wanted to show my best face.

20year, don't get all mad and take your toys home. I think this a great post. One that is open for debate and give people food for thought. A lot can be learned here from everyone.

20, that is up to you. I'm still not sure why you think the LB/EN part is neglected. It has been my observation since 2008 that the LB/EN is taken into account but as others have said a BS can't entertain that to the point that there is little or no stick when the A is active. I get (and others do too) that you aren't saying not to use the stick but there is a time and a balance for both carrot and stick. Too much of either can be bad. There's no point doing things like filling out EN questionnaires when a WS is still actively smoking the crack pipe with an AP. That would not make sense.

If this is directed to everyone who took the time to weigh in on this topic that you asked people to weigh in on, it is quite insulting, and to some very good posters may I add.

I wish for no bad juju with you or any other respectable poster so I'm out too.

20yr, what you are missing is this point: when a BS comes here under assault, do you hand them your most powerful weapon or your weakest weapon? Exposure is the MOST IMPORTANT WEAPON against an affair so wouldn't common sense dictate you hand them a loaded UZI rather than a pea shooter when they are under a full fledged assault?

Go read Dr Harley's own words about exposure: " In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. "

THAT is the single most important step so that is where the main focus should lie. This step is so critical and so important that Dr Harley is rewriting his books to include it. It is MORE important than the carrot of Plan A because without that step, all the need meeting in the world cannot overcome an ongoing affair.

all the need meeting in the world cannot overcome an ongoing affair.

Amen to that. Did that for WAY too long. Exposure killed the affair.

20yr, additionally, instead of arrogantly telling others how to post, many of whom have been here in the trenches for YEARS posting, why don't you pitch in and post where you see fit? In my opinion, you don't have a good understanding of how a marriage is saved so you could benefit from watching others. It is a favored tactic of conflict avoiders to place an emphasis on need meeting at the expense of exposure and creating conflict in the affair. You don't understand that.

"After reading these responses I am shocked (ok..not so much) that there isn't much retrospective analysis of the people on this board to consider there might be a 1% chance I am onto something here."

A very arrogant statement coming from someone who has been here for 6 months and has no experience saving marriages using these principles.

Absolutely! I hope I have done that during my nearly 3 years here. I still think of myself as a newbie.

The only posters I know of here with post counts approaching the number you mention are fantastic at this, have been here for years, are constantly learning more and refining their approach and becoming better at coaching people through Marriage Builders, and are always eager to learn even when a newbie like myself presents something Dr. Harley has said that they have not heard or have forgotten. One of them is fond of pointing out that it's better to have one good newbie who knows Marriage Builders than a dozen posters who have been here for ten years and don't even know what the Policy of Joint Agreement is.

20Year, I think you are a great poster, and I hope you will take that to the next level, listen to Dr. Harley every day, and pitch in frequently to help here.

Agree 100% markos, it doesn't matter how long a poster has been here, but how educated he is about the use of MB concepts. I know people who have been here longer than me who don't even own a single MB book. But I know people who have been here for 6 months who know more than me. Unfortunately, 20yrs zeroed in on one radio clip to the exclusion of Dr Harley's hundreds of others on the importance of exposure.

I think you might need some more retrospective analysis yourself, friend.

We are colleagues and buddies here, more or less, and supposedly all on the same time. You might do well to keep that in mind as you set the tone for your posts. Again, if you see something lacking, jump in and supply it. Lead the way in a positive manner. You'll catch a lot more flies with that kind of honey than you will with some of the vinegar you are dripping on your buddies, here.

I don't much like the way you are acting on this thread, but I like you and hope you'll stick around and do a great job here with what this board is for.

Dr. Harley's writings are Dr. Harley's writings. If it makes you feel better to get the last word and then that's great I know for a fact I have a very valid point in exploring the topic on this thread. This concept came straight from the mouth of a former wayward wife.

Slam me if you will I was simply trying to explore a very valid topic

It seems to me that Dr. Harley is very clear -- and the vets are correct in leading with this -- of the order of things.

1. EXPOSE to kill the affair.

THEN

2. Focus on the EN's.

NONE of meeting ENs -- none -- matters a whit if the affair is still ongoing and the WS is locked in the fog.

(and I am speaking from recent expereince here. ALL carrot, NO stick = failure).

I agree with you that there is a need for much more specific posting about how to meet emotional needs.

Let me be blunt: men are clueless. On this count, wayward husbands, faithful husbands, we all tend to be the same! A woman's emotional needs are much more complicated to meet than a man's. Many of us simply DON'T GET IT and need LOTS OF HELP.

So, jump in and post.

But post with an attitude of being ready to learn something. You should see a lot to learn on this thread, a lot of information about how a wayward spouse (like any addict) is a black hole who can never be satisfied, information about how it's impossible to fully meet emotional needs in an affair due to the contrast effect, etc.

Also, post with an attitude of being willing to accept correction. For example, if there's a struggling betrayed wife out there who NEEDS TO GO TO PLAN B to protect her health and sanity, and you start pushing her to Plan A a little longer, I (and others) will be all over you like WHITE ON RICE with responses and mod notifications, because that is very dangerous advice in such a situation. And I would hope that if something like that were to happen you'd change your course just as soon as you understand what Dr. Harley actually says about it and why. We all need to practice a little Marriage Builders continuing education.

Let me highlight something for you from the post above mine:


Notice the attitude of being willing to continue to learn, there. I can tell you of a lot of changes I've seen in MelodyLane's posts over the last three years since I've been here, as she has learned more. And she was already an expert when I got here.

She'd make a pretty good one, I think.

Is that what this is really about? You have a personal beef with MelodyLane?

Please, my friend, you are making a spectacle of yourself. I encourage you to calm down, take some time off, then come back and do something productive.

Then that's all you need to post. Dr. Harley's materials are the gold standard by which we judge whether someone is offering Marriage Builders advice or not. If you think MelodyLane or anyone else is contradicting them, post a source showing otherwise. And notify the mods, if they are distracting a poster in crisis.

I've seen MelodyLane get edited before. Neither she nor anyone else is faultless or above correction! :P

Be aware that the thousands of hours of Marriage Builders radio sometimes offer a perspective that is much more tailored to each individual situation than the writings, which tend to be more general. Sometimes some of us have specialized knowledge that others do not have, about what will work in a specific situation, based on what Dr. Harley says regularly.

This is why I urge you to be a daily radio listener.

"I never gave them Hell, really. I just told them the truth, and they thought it was Hell."

~ Harry S Truman......um, er...MelodyLane.

(and THANK GOD for that!)


These vets on this forum save MARRIAGES, save FAMILIES.

'nough said.

Thank you for all the advice this board has given me in helping me save my marriage. It has been invaluable and I look forward to a long-lasting marriage with my wife. I have found it very difficult to have a rational discussion to bring a provocative topics some on this board. Yes I got out of hand today and I am sorry.

Best of luck to all of you and your marriages in your continuing support to Ending affairs.

At this point you will not see me returning to the boards thank you

Stop it. You are acting just like MelodyLane.

There's no need for a dramatic exit. And really, I can't see how you got to this point. People disagreed with you and you got so upset?

I second what marcos advised. Take a break, calm down and come back and continue helping.