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Jedi_Knight #2669257 09/27/12 09:29 AM
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Here is an article about how to Survie an Affair.
Until you have evidence (polygraph) that the affairs are over (and have ALL of your questions answered) you are in Step 1:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

Jedi_Knight #2669268 09/27/12 09:49 AM
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Here is a letter you could use to ask your wife to disclose and agree to a polygraph (from another thread):


This is a classic letter ... applicable when your adulterous spouse is not willing to disclose the details of the affair ... but wants to recover the marriage ...

Here ya go!

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

Celestial21 #2669298 09/27/12 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Celestial21
I can try. What kind of prices are there for these courses or the one-on-one session? Do you remember?

Click on the link for courses, seminar and accountability. All the information is there.

AM


BW - 70
WH - 65
M - 35 years
D-day - 17 Apr 08
H broke contact 11/1/09
Back in love after the worst thing that every happened to us.
armymama #2669418 09/27/12 03:59 PM
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I really like that letter. It is hard to explain to her why I have so many questions still, and she thinks I should be able to let it go and move on.

Celestial21 #2669425 09/27/12 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Celestial21
I really like that letter. It is hard to explain to her why I have so many questions still, and she thinks I should be able to let it go and move on.


I used that letter to explain to my WH why I still had so many questions. He had the same attitude that your wife does- I should let it go and move on. Unfortunately, we were in a false recovery. I didn't follow MB principles like I should have. I was picking and choosing things from MB, instead of following it to the letter. I encourage you to really listen to and heed the advice of the vets here. They DO know what they are talking about. Once I started listening, properly exposed, and followed everyone here's advice on Plan B-ing, my WH responded completely differently. He really answered all of my questions about the affair - full disclosure, and even agreed to a polygraph.


BS - 45 (me)
WH - 43
DD - 23
DD - 16

Trickle truths 4/18/12-9/8/12
Final DDay - 9/12/12

Finally heading into recovery thanks to Marriage Builders.
FathersEyes #2669434 09/27/12 05:15 PM
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I have gone through much of what your are going through right now. My D day is 11/2011. MY W was involved in an A last sept, oct, nov as well. The worst of my depression came this past june and july. Time is what has begun to heal me. I was to stubborn to take medication for my depression and anxiety. My WW is the one that has pulled me out of the hell I was in.

You will not be able to move on and begin to pull yourself out until you have your questions answered. MY W did the same thing the 1st few months, she would say "what does it matter". They believe they will hurt us more if they tell the truth or answer uncomfortable questions. In order to being healing your wife needs to lead. You cannot do this by yourself or with a individual counselor. You need to get through to your wife that meeting your needs will slowly begin to help you heal. I bet your most important needs right now are intimacy, honesty, and affection.

What I can tell you my friend is that there is light at then end of the tunnel. If your wife loves you as much as she says, then she needs to show it to you every minute of every day from now on. See needs to be the one to lead the recovery. My wife still tells me at least once a day she is so sorry for hurting me and our family. When your W beings to answer all of your questions honestly, meets your EM's, and shows she is committed to you. You will begin to heal. The images will never go away, but you will begin to accept them and be able to move your mind onto something else. You need to constantly be fighting your mind to move on to something else. Get your mind off the bad thoughts. Find taskts that involve sequencing. Think of something that will consume you. What would your do with all the $$ if you won the lottery? If you are into sports dream up your greatest football team. Think up a game plan for the next game. Do what ever it take to move your thoughts from the bad things. I played a lot of solitare and puzzle games on my tablet. It is exhausting, having to constantly be moving your thoughts. But eventually and with your W's help it will become easier. Dont let yourself dwell. It will eat you up, and consume you. Do what ever it takes to get your self from thinking about the A.

I will also someday take my revenge on the OM. But I am not activly looking for the encounter. If I really wanted to I could go and give him a beating he will never forget, right now. I know where he lives, where he works, and his regular routine. Instead I had done what Viper suggested. My W informed me earlier on the OM was afraid of me. So I sent him a series of txt messages that will have him looking over his shoulder for the rest of his life. And when the time comes there will be a reckoning. But it will be something more public. I am willing to acept what the law deems suitable for my actions. To ease your mind I see no harm in reminding your OM that you are still smoldering.


BH 37(ME)
FWW 37 2 PA's
Married 9 years, together 10.
DS 5
DD 3
D-Day 11/04/11
Skidooman #2669474 09/27/12 06:53 PM
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Here you go.
Polygraph Testing


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



BrainHurts #2669481 09/27/12 07:32 PM
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As for revenge the Bible says that vengeance belongs to God.
And God does love the waywards, too.
But certainly use all LEGAL means of revenge. And remember it is a dish best served cold.

Jedi_Knight #2669733 09/28/12 02:24 PM
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I don't know. Sometimes it just seems like too much of an effort. Why do we have to sacrifice and make all of these changes because our spouses cannot control themselves? My spouse still resents spending time with me and makes me feel like some type of pervert when I suggest intimacy. I'm tired of begging someone to stay with me. What does it accomplish? I'd rather she just go and find her happiness. You can't make someone love you.

Celestial21 #2669737 09/28/12 02:30 PM
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I mean I haven't made myself happy in so long I don't even know if I remember how to do that. I've spent the last year bending over backwards trying to make her happy but nothing I do is ever enough. Why can't I just let her go find her own happiness?

Celestial21 #2669740 09/28/12 02:33 PM
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In summary, one person cannot make a marriage.

Celestial21 #2669743 09/28/12 02:44 PM
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My spouse still resents spending time with me and makes me feel like some type of pervert when I suggest intimacy.

Ignoring your resentment of her drug-facilitated decisions that led to her affair, is this mindset of hers basically where you and she were as you married and started life together? ("She has never been overly sexual with me, having intercourse a handful of times during our marriage.") If so, you really "bought" your situation with your own actions/decisions.

This is not a lead-up to saying, "It's your fault," but it does serve to remind you that when you made all those vows they were to the woman with the psycho/emotional maladjustments(?) that you now claim to be insufferable.

Sorry: No Sale!

You (and she) made a pact to support and abide with each other. You should expect yourself to honor those commitments. Yes, you should encourage her to seek counselling for ways to deal with the traumas she endured, but you took her as a bride knowing her history. So, IMHO, you and she must resolve these issues as one.

NeverGuessed #2669751 09/28/12 03:12 PM
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No, this type of treatment did not start occurring until AFTER we were married and AFTER our son was born. How can I possibly solve all of our problems when she doesn't think we have any? To keep my vows, I basically have to be willing to forgo intimacy the rest of my life. Additionally, I have to totally forgive and forget the sexual affair, like it never happened. If this medication made her sexual and increased her desire, why didn't she want her husband? Why did she choose to be with a car salesman? It's all just so screwed up. It's been a month since we were intimate, so I simply asked if there was a possibility of intimacy tonight. Her response, "you want me to just quit everything and be your love slave". I think the truth is she just doesn't love me any more. The thought of intimacy and spending time with me repulses her. So what do I do now? Do I make her stay with me because I love her? If I really love her shouldn't I let her go and find someone that she loves and makes her happy?

BrainHurts #2669752 09/28/12 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here you go.
Polygraph Testing
Are you going to set up the polygraph?

How about calling the coaching center or online program?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



Jedi_Knight #2669757 09/28/12 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by HDW
Did the medical doctor say it will cause people to have affairs if over prescribed?

I did a search on my digital drug guide; not one drug listed has a side effect that may be construed as "may cause one to commit adultery."


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
HoldHerHand #2669766 09/28/12 03:44 PM
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No, but almost all SNRIs (Chantix, Pristiq, etc) carry this warning:

"Call your doctor at once if you have any new or worsening symptoms such as: mood or behavior changes, anxiety, panic attacks, trouble sleeping, or if you feel impulsive, irritable, agitated, hostile, aggressive, restless, hyperactive (mentally or physically), more depressed, or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself."

A psychiatrist diagnosed her with medication induced mania. This type of drug related side effect is more common than you think. I have no doubt this caused the affair. But that doesn't explain the other 10 years.

Celestial21 #2669814 09/28/12 07:43 PM
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Quote
No, this type of treatment did not start occurring until AFTER we were married and AFTER our son was born.
This is so common. When the baby comes, the world suddenly starts revolving around the baby, which is the LAST thing that should happen. Your marriage became child-centered. Am I correct when I suggest that your social calendar revolved around your son?
Quote
To keep my vows, I basically have to be willing to forgo intimacy the rest of my life.
I don't understand this. Why do you feel you have to forego intimacy? This is a God-given part of marriage.
Quote
Her response, "you want me to just quit everything and be your love slave".
Whatever. Fogbabble. Ignore this.
Quote
I think the truth is she just doesn't love me any more.
You are correct. She is not in love with you. Her experience with OM's meeting of her needs has completely depleted her love bank. You need to build that back up. Are you familiar with Plan A?

Last edited by maritalbliss; 09/28/12 07:44 PM.

D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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