bzzzt. Wrong answer. The intention of the book was to spur on action to determine what your partner's love language was and to take action from there. There was even a chapter on what to do with a reluctant spouse who wouldn't communicate their needs (love language). So while communication would prove helpful it wasn't required to complete the exercises (which I did) one would take to determine and fulfill their love language.

The fact you don't know what that book offers tells me your still on your one trick pony and aren't willing to be flexible with a process that is nearly identical to the one you're preaching.

The drinking is something that has started within the last 10 to 12 months. While her and I would enjoy an occasional glass of wine or beer she began drinking every day. And when we'd go out with friends or to a neighbors house she'd drink till she was hammered. Out drinking everyone that was in attendance. My best buddies made comments.

It did click NEW. Just not sure I care enough to try it again.

Sorry I'm not taking any AD medication. I may be withdrawn and sad from my situation but I don't need to adjust the chemicals in my head to survive.

FYI: My problems aren't the same problems.

Today I'm withdrawn whereas before I was invested and upset due to a lack of my needs being met. Whereas before my biggest concerns were the lack of need meeting in my life my problems now involve other things that have turned me off. Like the drinking. And the way she communicates with me. And some of the ways she's raising the kids. My needs are still no longer being met but then I'm no longer asking that they be met. And for about the last 8 months I've stopped doing any of the things most would consider MB principles (just not you).

Nope. The Policy of Radical Honesty went out the door some 8 months or more ago. Along with all other MB principles.

Like I said earlier, it is a book about COMMUNICATION that does nothing to restore the romantic love to marriage and you just demonstrated this point in your bolded comment above. Good communication will not restore the romantic love but Gary Chapman does not know that. 5LL does not work to create romantic love even when followed as directed.

BUT........you already know this. IT has not worked for you.


This "one trick pony" is in a ROMANTIC, PASSIONATE marriage. Being "flexible" and following every failed dog and cat program EXCEPT MArriage Builders has not helped your own marriage. There is only ONE WAY to create romantic love in a marriage, not several ways.

5LL is completely different from Marriage Builders. But you don't know this, because you don't even own a single MB book.

Check this out, MrA:

Effective Marriage Counseling, Dr Bill Harley:

When I found that the model I've developed had helped over 90% of those I was counseling, I gave up my career as a college professor and started counseling full-time. At the time, I didn't assume that it would save all of the marriages it seemed to help, because I felt there were factors beyond a couple's control. But after 35 years of experience with this model, I'm not convinced that it works with 100% of couples who follow it. I've yet to witness one couple out of the tens of thousands I've seen, that did not experience a healthy and happy marriage by following this model. Personally, I feel it's the only answer to the question, how can a couple have a great marriage for life?

But it's very difficult to prove that one model of marital satisfaction is superior to another. The ultimate test is to randomly assign couples to various models and to measure their marital satisfaction after the provisions of each model have been implemented.

The training of therapists is a huge problem: How can we be sure that the therapist assigned to each model was properly trained? And there's also the problem of representation and random assignment: Does the group of volunteer couples represent the population at large? And is the assignment to treatment groups really random? There's also the ethical problem of assigning couples to a control group where they receive no effective treatment. When they divorce, does the researcher bear any responsibility? Finally, if someone who has a stake in the outcome does the research, it usually shows that their approach is best. Shouldn't studies of alternative models of marital satisfaction be conducted by those neutral to the outcome?

My own personal experience led me to the model I've been using for the past 35 years. But that's not proof of it's superiority over other models. What I need is objective studies conducted by those who have no bias that compare this model to others. That's hard to find even among those who have published hundreds of articles on martial therapy.

But I can direct you to three studies that support my enthusiasm. They all deal with my book, His Needs, Her Needs, the popular application of my model, and the effect it has on couples that read it.

The readers of Marriage Partnership Magazine were asked which self-help book on marriage helped their marriages the most. In that survey, His Needs, Her Needs came out on top. I didn't know that the survey was even being conducted, so when I called the editor after the results came in, I was curious to know more. He told me that it not only was the top choice, but it was far ahead of second place (Ron R. Lee. Best Books for a Better Marriage: Reader's Survey . Marriage Partnership Magazine, Spring 1998).

In a national survey that I sponsored, people were asked if any self-help book on marriage solved their marital problems. Out of 57 books that were read, only three were reported to have actually solved marital problems. The three were the Bible, James Dobson's Love for a Lifetime, and His Needs, Her Needs (Lynn Hanacek Gravel. Americans and Marriage: National Survey of US Adults. Barna Research Group, 2001).

Finally, five out of six couples that read His Needs Her Needs were found to experience significant improvement in marital satisfaction (Julie D. Braswell. The Impact of Reading a Self-Help Book on the Topic of Gender Differences on One's Perceived Quality of Marriage. Doctoral Dissertation, 1998, Azusa Pacific University.

Granted, these findings are not conclusive evidence that the model I use is superior to every other model of marital satisfaction. But when you find one that works for every couple that actually follows it, you have to be impressed. And coming as I did from almost zero effectiveness to almost complete success, I can't begin to tell you how convinced I am that it's the solution to a very difficult problem we face in our society.

Nor is Marriage Builders a "flexible" program. It is a very exacting program that has very specific steps. It is not flexible and it is not a cafeteria plan when you cherry pick things you like and reject things you don't like. It only works when worked in its entirety. For example, when Dr Harley was in active practice, he would refuse to counsel anyone would not commit to necessary hours to do his program. He would tell them to go elsewhere. If he told them to a certain lesson, they had to do it or he did not go onto the next step.

No flexibility at all. Being flexible is worthless if it means you don't follow the necessary steps to change your marriage. Creating romantic love is "one trick," not several.

I don't always agree with Mel, but when I do... I drink Dos Equis....

Do I have to take the car keys away from you, Mister??

AlAnon is for people who have a loved one with a drinking problem.

Just making sure you are aware of the difference between AA and AlAnon.

Dr. Harley does recommend Alanon to people with a spouse who has an addiction problem that is not being treated.

But you are demonstrating that flexibility isn't working, MrAlias.

Did you just show up to argue with MelodyLane? Honestly: "Bzzt, wrong answer?" That's ridiculous.

Does 5LL recommend anti-depressants for facing 8 years of an unhappy marriage?

Because if it doesn't, it's not really "virtually identical" to Marriage Builders.

It seems to me you are the inflexible one. You insist that Marriage Builders and 5LL are basically the same thing, and you aren't willing to bend on the idea. You insist that your idea of Marriage Builders is correct and that you've therefore tried it, and you aren't willing to hear otherwise.

That sounds pretty inflexible to me.

And what did she say when you explained to her that you were NOT happy and satisfied? What did she say when you asked her to do MB counselling with Steve?

How do you feel we can we help you?

Telling her that you're going to leave after the kids are gone isn't being Radically Honest. It's living an honest life. You are deceiving a principal person in your life (not to mention your kids!) by shutting up and 'taking it' until your last one's graduation day.

Not to mention that it might wake her up. You are keeping a critical piece of your life's information away from your family.

ROFL!

Help me find the will and energy to care enough to try again ... I guess. Like I said earlier I'm not really sure why I came back. Probably just needed to talk to someone about this.

I'm fully aware the path I'm taking will lead to a negative result and I realize that here I will be put in my place for that along with the path I've taken so far. It wasn't the full MB path and principles and if for that I'm wasting everyone's time I suppose I should just leave or people can choose to ignore me. At least until I change my mind on the level of participation I'm ready to take. But for now I'll continue to ramble.

Right now this path is more enticing (less painful) than trying. I'm not of the mindset that being let down again or having to go it alone again is the right choice for me. I've seen enough to feel she will never join me on a MB journey and without her on-board nothing much will change. So to spend money to go it alone for her ... for us ... just feels like a bad business decision. She won't give me her approval to go it alone not that that should stop me. But I'm in withdrawal and these types of decisions no longer come from my heart they come from my head ( which is probably screwed on backwards) and my head says it's not optimal use of the money. These are my thoughts, It is where I'm at at this juncture. "I'll get more educated and be a better man and she'll still be her."

Sorry for not posting back right away. I have back spasms infrequently but they flared up again Saturday in a big way and I've been down for the count. Back to work today but I am pretty sore. Physical therapy soon to come ... again.

I must admit that a large cause of my withdrawal is just the overall energy I have left. Part of my decline in trying much of anything is due to a feeling of being beat down. I'm out of shape and I'm having a tough time getting back in shape and even have a lesser quality of life due to a number of physical issues. It's hard to maintain anything although I have been working out. Diets don't work unless it is a new way of eating and we don't see eye to eye on what that is.

My focus lately has been on trying to implement a way back into shape. That and taking care of the kids has been the focal points. I've focused my energies on those because I feel those will give me the best ROI.

Answer this please, and not with what you 'feel' she would say.