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I know this may sound absurd but isn't it the quickest way to kill the A if nothing else works?
Thoughts? Some of them, such as my ex wife, openly says that she will "never Marry again". They have no sense of responsibility or morality so they aren't going to marry
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You do need to stop trying to control him through your actions. You can not wake him up. Period. [/color]I was thinking that I would invite him for a divorce signing party and that I would demand in writing that he will marry her a week after D is final or else I am not signing. Crazy, I know, but let me dream.  [color:#000000]You CAN do plan A (be the best you, you can be as he is free to observe) and then do plan B (close the door on his access to you as you turn your focus to rebuilding your life outside of being cruelly betrayed and emotionally abused by infedelity in your face). [/color]Do you think I could merge plan A with plan B? That is a major wondering for me. I mean for example not talk to him, but look very sexy when he comes to get our DD. I caught him looking at me with his eyes popped out each time I did that. Or making him babysit for me to go out at night (he said he is happy to babysit for me).[color:#000000]He is responsible for everything else he does or does not do. You are in control of your plans only. Your plans for you. HTMS
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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FNM, this is a very confusing question without the background.
Click 'notify' below and ask the mods to merge both your threads, and to have your thread here on SAA.
It would be very silly for you and your daughter to endure the pain of illicit wedding, wouldn't it?
OWs family would not fight the A if it became legitimized by marriage.
She would be your daughters stepmother and you could not keep them apart.
Plus how on earth would you urge them? While telling people you are fighting for the marriage?
One thing you learn from MB is that peoples choices are totally up to them.
Please take the very first steps to fight an affair before going off on such tangents. Stay focused.
You have been advised to expose far and wide. To OWs family, her married friends, etc. The BH can't do this obviously. How can HE tell others that you are a heartbroken wife fighting for her family? That must come from you.
[/color]Well I am going to do the exposure (and I thought of a very effective way) to her parents. Without their support she cannot raise her kids. I should add that she is going to have her D at October 10th because her H filed. She is not financially independent. She cant pay babysitters in order to meet with my WH. But as far as the full thing, I cant do a lot, because we are too far at this. They made their fb friends unaccessible to me. [color:#000000]
You must also tell your daughter. The poor little thing is trying to figure it out alone. And of course she will still love him. You do, don't you? [/color]I did that. Although he is denying the through to her with lies.[color:#3333FF]
And for heavens sake get out of this buddy divorce and get your own lawyer. File on the grounds of adultery. Tell WH that OW will be named and quizzed in court unless he shapes up and repents. Tell him you will not be friends afterwards and you will not assist him in abandoning his family. Make divorce an ugly option.
Also you are N0T in Plan B. You don't even have an intermediary, so no Plan B is possible yet. Until you can make the proper arrangements you are in Plan A, negotiating and fighting for your marriage.[/color] I am working on having an IM. Can you please tell me why is it so important to have an IM? Sometimes when I text him and we actually talk I think I am able to make him see things, like the little games she is playing on him.[color:#000000]
Plan A for just a few weeks max, and set up Plan B to commence in that time. [/color]Do you really think I should start all over? Because I already DID plan A and I am supposed to be in plan B. I even took one whole month leave from my job to do plan A in April. But it didnt work because of my snooping. After a while I knew everything that was going on and could not behave myself. This is the reason I would fail again If I did that. I could not stand what I find out by snooping. I did a ceremony in front of him back in July where I unistalled my keylogger, saying I no longer want to know, because I had all the information I wanted.[color:#000000]
It is imperative you make proper legal, financial and intermediary arrangements in order to Plan B effectively.
The link in my sig will tell you how.
But your first step is to read the exposure thread and plan a nuclear exposure that will make the APs heads spin.
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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And I am thinking of Dr H saying that most affairs die a natural death. So I guess one can only shorten this time a bit. Since I lost the train on full exposure sometimes I am just SURE that if they lived together it would die much sooner. And If we finally divorce isnt it going to take the factor of secrecy and adventure away? She is a nobody. I dont believe she can keep him long. Even if we are not together again I will have the pleasure to see them fall. I know, this sounds like revenge, but if you are not to R you better have this pleasure, no?
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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OW and WH are not used to the reality of living together/filing ENs 100% of the time with each other..this is a big reason affairs eventually crumble. OW doesn't have to hear his snoring every night and wash his underwear. WH doesn't have to hear her young kids screaming or running around after a long day at work. Reality will wear on them...the fantasy will start to crumble. If they are both serial cheaters as you say, they will likely be boinking the next best option soon enough. The financial changes of D add stress too. The deck is stacked against them. You and DD stay out of the way as much as possible. APs are their own worst enemies.
Expose to the OW's parents and Plan B. I would not send them your decree. You do not need to Plan A again...that time has passed so leave it alone. Get into Plan B for your sanity and healing.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I am working on having an IM. Can you please tell me why is it so important to have an IM? Sometimes when I text him and we actually talk I think I am able to make him see things, like the little games she is playing on him Faith, this is EXACTLY why an IM is used in Plan B. Plan B is no contact. Here are the details: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.htmlYou are not in Plan B when you are in contact with him and trying to "educate" him about the OW. Plan B is about setting boundaries and saying you will not accept the behavior. Offering advice about OW in Plan B is just telling him that your Plan B boundaries are not firm and that *he still has the control*. I understand you are trying to control him here and educate him - but please understand, these methods result in the opposite. An IM will filter out this and only provide critical information to him regarding children or legal matters.
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[quote=Faithnomore]
I understand you are trying to control him here and educate him - but please understand, these methods result in the opposite. Why?
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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Because a WS is not in love with their BS and comes up with all sorts of rationalizations to justify their behavior.
Whatever you say about the OW, despite it being 100% true (I am assuming it is), he will not perceive it in the same manner. He will simply think - she is lying, she is making it up, she is bitter, she is just trying to desperately win me back, etc.
People here refer to it as "fog babble".
It isn't until AFTER the affair has ended and the WS sustains no contact that they "get it". One day, he will almost certainly look back and realize "the truth" about OW but it isn't going to happen when he is with her.
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Because a WS is not in love with their BS and comes up with all sorts of rationalizations to justify their behavior.
Whatever you say about the OW, despite it being 100% true (I am assuming it is), he will not perceive it in the same manner. He will simply think - she is lying, she is making it up, she is bitter, she is just trying to desperately win me back, etc.
People here refer to it as "fog babble".
It isn't until AFTER the affair has ended and the WS sustains no contact that they "get it". One day, he will almost certainly look back and realize "the truth" about OW but it isn't going to happen when he is with her. I guess you are wright. He didnt believe her H (yes we had a very civilized meeting the three of us) when he told him to be carefull because he was not the first. He thought he just wanted her back. And a month later her H happily filed! So much for wanting her back. THAT is his trophy: a woman happily thrown away by her H.
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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To Indie:
The reason why I filed so quickly is that this was my way of plan B. I could not do it otherwise , I kept calling him. After I filed I was calmer. We are not splitting things in half, I am getting almost everything .
I also wanted to use filing as a way to wake him up because I knew deep down he didn't want it. More details later when I have battery. You are working a plan based on emotion, not logic. You are submitting to a very poor 'buddy divorce' because you got exhausted Plan Aing. (He will give you everything if he feels he can keep you on his side and in contact which is a bad message to give him) You got tired and surrended basically. Because instead of a 3 week Plan A, you are in a sort of endless Plan A. Where you remain in contact, negotiating, listening to his fogbabble and lies. Madness! Plan A is short and sweet. It leaves a lasting and memorable impression on the WS. Then you disappear into Plan B. He literally cannot reach you. By any communication method. He cannot hurt you or keep you in the drama. This frees you up for creating a great life. In Plan B you create a WH free universe. You basically get on with your own life, heal, do things for you. It prevents you becoming a worn out wreck. Your short and sweet impression will unravel swiftly if you remain in the battle long enough to get exhausted. Plus men find being fought for long term off putting. They will not respect you for sticking around to take the abuse of an ongoing A. You should not communicate with someone who has the temerity to keep on with his A. While asking you for advice on OW!!! You have self respect.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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/color]Do you think I could merge plan A with plan B? That is a major wondering for me. I mean for example not talk to him, but look very sexy when he comes to get our DD. I caught him looking at me with his eyes popped out each time I did that. Or making him babysit for me to go out at night (he said he is happy to babysit for me).[color:#000000][/color] I'm sure he is!!!!! Dr H says As die a natural death AFTER the BS cuts off all contact and stops meeting needs. If you continue to meet his PA need and FC need by co-parenting with him, you will remain in love with him. You'll never heal because with continued contact you don't go through withdrawal. He will know. So add admiration to the list. And he gets SF and IC etc from OW at home. The love and attention of two women, a welcome in two homes, he gets to be with his child in her own home and tuck her in at night. Far from giving up anything he gains everything he wants. You'd be giving him a dream divorce and he would never give up that set up. In Plan B he is banned from the marital home.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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[quote=Faithnomore]
Plus men find being fought for long term off putting. They will not respect you for sticking around to take the abuse of an ongoing A. You should not communicate with someone who has the temerity to keep on with his A. While asking you for advice on OW!!! You have self respect. So, I am going to go dark. But I (we) filed. And it is going to be soon (a month). We haven't signed yet though. I am not sure I want to go the other kind of divorce. It is time consuming where I live. Maybe 4-5 years. And much more costly. Do I just let it end? And then he will respect me more? Or maybe I wont even care in a few months.
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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[quote=Faithnomore]
Plus men find being fought for long term off putting. They will not respect you for sticking around to take the abuse of an ongoing A. You should not communicate with someone who has the temerity to keep on with his A. While asking you for advice on OW!!! You have self respect. So, I am going to go dark. But I (we) filed. And it is going to be soon (a month). We haven't signed yet though. I am not sure I want to go the other kind of divorce. It is time consuming where I live. Maybe 4-5 years. And much more costly. Do I just let it end? And then he will respect me more? Or maybe I wont even care in a few months. I do take your point about your getting a good deal in this D. If child visitation and finances are in line with your going dark, then let it go ahead. Don't worry about a D being finalized affecting recovery, you can get remarried. But I am very nervous that you have the same lawyer!! I don't see how he could have given YOU the best, unbiased advice without considering his other client. I would see an independent lawyer. Actually I would see a few. I would tell them your divorce deal and ask if it is what they would have advised. Most will give you a free consultation for your first visit. What is the child visitation like in your current deal?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Are you in the US? If so, there can only be one Petitioner...who filed?
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Legal counsel can only represent one party. Who retained the attorney? Did you use a mediator, collaborator or arbitrator? There is a big distinction between these so please be clear on how your D is being handled.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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Plan B is for YOU. You will be a wreck if you carry on like this. He is a big boy and is able to handle his own poor decisions and consequences without you.
I'll bet you're not eating or sleeping very well. I'll bet your energy has crashed. How often do you weep?
Its the most traumatic thing you've ever experienced, I'll wager. You must focus on yourself and your daughter.
Whether he comes to, or not, Plan B will be the best way to prepare yourself for the next chapter.
Read about the preps in my sig and make a last ditch Plan A while preps are being made.
Just leave a good lasting impression. You'll feel better if you do.
We'll help you with a Plan B letter.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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This lawyer is an old time friend of mine. He wouldnt look for his own because he did it with half a heart. I know though that he sees him as him client too. I have asked the opinion of another lawyer. Basically the same. I could have asked for more money, child support but basically not drastic difference.
He bought a car recentty, mind you a sport coupe one (they all do dont they) and I told him that half of it belongs to me because we are not divorced yet! But do I want to go this route? What for? (and the car is no good, full of problems!)
Now, visitation. Twice a week for 3 hours and every other weekend the whole Sat-Sun.
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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Or maybe I wont even care in a few months. It will take longer than that to fully heal, I'm afraid. But you will feel much better. Plan B is quite difficult in the first few weeks. Probably why you've been resisting it. You go through withdrawal at first, which is quite hard. You'll be tempted to break NC a few times. But if you get through a few weeks, you feel much better after this though.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Got it. If this friend is merely helping you but has not been legally retained, I don't believe he is held to the same standards of confidentially and fidiciary duties. Does the court have him on record as your counsel?
You have a lot of leverage, FNM. I don't think you need to go to battle but don't easily give up things without even trying/asking. Worst case WH says no but ask and use the leverage you have. Your WH may agree and that's that.
I retained counsel. My ex did not. I was very up front with him about what I wanted. We made adjustments here and there but nothing huge changed. He knew court would not be pretty if we ended up there and I didn't want that either but some things were deal breakers for me so if he wanted to fight me, then so be it. He signed and there was no trial.
I would urge you to include a morality clause regarding OW specifically or at least that females can't be present overnight during visitation for 6 mo, 1 yr or whatever after D is final. DD doesn't need to be around overnight female visitors. There is specific language to define "overnight" - Between the hours of 10pm - 7am, no female blah blah. WH may not want DD there either when female company is over. I would ask...any measure to protect your DD is worth it. Once the D is final, you will have no leverage with this and it has become an issue many BSs are sick over. The children have no time to adjust w/o some new person or AP being thrown in their face.
Last edited by black_raven; 09/30/12 05:31 PM.
BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011
Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.
We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I am not in the US. We both filed. I think that we are both petitioners.
I lost 9 kilos. But I am eating better now. I used sleeping pills, but now I have almost abandoned them.
I thought that If I suddenly allowed him home ( after a long time of not) his OW would be jealous . Are you going to tell me that jealousy just feeds their passion?
As you can see I like games too.
Me: BW, 41
WH: 46
Married 7 years, together 12
DD: 5
OW: 39
D-Day: 11 April
Plan B since 10/3/12
Divorced 11/12
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