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What the spit is this talk of 2 years of Plan A?



Aw, hell to the naw. You DO NOT Plan A for two years, holy harrumphing Hephaestus! There is a limit, even for men... and that limit is 6 MONTHS, not two years.


The only thing said about two years, is that if your marriage is not BETTER THAN IT EVER WAS BEFORE... then you should DIVORCE.


Plan A for two years...


faint


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Good grief!

Where are these time frames coming from?

Dr. H says that most affairs die within 2 years.

His recommendation for Plan A is 3 weeks for women and 6 months for men. Then Plan B for up to the 2 year mark (or forever if that works better for ya).




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2little, do you have "surviving an affair"?
If you do, re-read pages 75-79. Six months Is the average time he counsels BS to plan a

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The time frame for BWs for Plan A is about 3 weeks though (correct me if I'm wrong, vets). He's shrunk it down due to how emotionally taxing it is.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Karma, I yanked out my book to see where these time frames came from. Funny how these things get passed around. I couldn't find anything that said otherwise.

In all honesty, it depends on what the person can handle.

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I think it's been updated since the book was written. I've seen figures from 3-6 weeks for BWs thrown around lately.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted by karmasrose
I think it's been updated since the book was written. I've seen figures from 3-6 weeks for BWs thrown around lately.
Yes Dr. H has updated it.

3 weeks for BW due to health reasons and up to 6 months for BH.

I think this is the clip where Dr. H talks about it.
Radio clip on Plan A and Plan B


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by Lexxxy
Good grief!

Where are these time frames coming from?

Dr. H says that most affairs die within 2 years.

His recommendation for Plan A is 3 weeks for women and 6 months for men. Then Plan B for up to the 2 year mark (or forever if that works better for ya).

He has Told some callers they can be in plan A for long periods of time, evn after divorce
It's up to the spouse how long they want to. He makes it clear that it is a personal decision.

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From what I understand, only men are advised by Dr. Harley to plan A as long as they can, since they can greater withstand the emotional and health deterioration than women during plan A. The usual outer limit as I understand is 2 years for men, and if at that time there is no move by the WW to move towards recommitting to the marriage, then move on to seperation (plan B) and eventually divorce.

Generally though, the average recommended plan A timeframe for men seems to be 6 months, with long plan As being the exception and not the rule.



Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

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Dr H has said most affairs die on their own in two years.

Plan A was to go 6 months for both BW and BH.

Dr H has revised that many BW find plan A to taxing mental and physical and has advised they go for a short period for as long as they can handle it. No more 6 months for the BW's.

Dr H say's that most men can handle the 6 months and should continue to do so if they can pull it off.

Plan B is what comes after doing plan A. Plan B is to be done for until the WS has met the conditions set forth to end plan B. After two years Dr H has found that most WS are not going to come back so at that point they should continue NC with the WS and divorce. For some BS they perfer to stay NC and not file and stay at the status quo.

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Good clarification, thank you!


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

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LOL. MB refresher time for even old timers!


Now... what I remember for affairs dying a natural death wasn't 2 years, but 3. And that natural death is assuming that the BS is in Plan B and no longer propping up the fantasy.

What I remember about the 2-year mark, is that if your marriage has not improved within that time to a point at which it is better than it was before infidelity occured, that it was unlikely that recovery would ever succeed.

ETA: I remember the 3 because a poster appeared here shortly after I did stating that he was getting sudden contact from his XWW at almost EXACTLY the 3 year mark and she was whining about OM - and the poster was struck by the fact that it was exactly the 3 year timeframe that Dr. Harley had predicted.

Last edited by HoldHerHand; 10/05/12 04:15 AM.

"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Do you have any update? You have been quiet for a while

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There is to be no further reference in this forum to the non Harley materials that have been removed several times from this thread. If you have any problems understanding the Marriage Builders forum rules, please contact JustUss.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
2little, do you have "surviving an affair"?
If you do, re-read pages 75-79. Six months Is the average time he counsels BS to plan a
'

Dr Harley counsels women to do 3-4 weeks and men around 6 months, depending on his mental state. He is rewriting SAA to reflect this change, which he has been advocating on the radio and in articles for years. Here is one such quote from the private board - and he has become stricter since he wrote this in 2007:

Quote
The primary reason for abandoning plan A for plan B is protection. The stress experienced in plan A (trying to care for someone too long who is hurting you more deeply than you ever have, or ever will, experience) can leave you physically and emotionally damaged. So the question each person must ask themselves is, "how tough am I?"

My experience is that men are tougher mentally and physically than women. By that, I mean that women seem to start falling apart emotionally and physically after just a few months, or even a few weeks, of plan A. Men, on the other hand, seem to be able to keep it up for years before experiencing health problems.

If I don't know a person too well, I tend to lean to the safe side by recommending 3-4 weeks of plan A for women, and 6 months for men. But if a woman is no worse for wear after a few weeks, or a man is feeling okay after 6 months, there's no reason to end plan A at that point. As you can see, it's inexact, and depends on how the person is doing. A good support system (like the support people often receive on the Forum) can often keep a person in plan A much longer.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by HDW
[

He has Told some callers they can be in plan A for long periods of time, evn after divorce
It's up to the spouse how long they want to. He makes it clear that it is a personal decision.

You mean MEN can Plan A for longer periods, right? Because he doesn't tell women that. He tells women to stay in Plan A no longer than 4 weeks. And of course every thing is a personal decision.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Karma, I yanked out my book to see where these time frames came from. Funny how these things get passed around. I couldn't find anything that said otherwise.

In all honesty, it depends on what the person can handle.

Dr Harley has tried to make sure the correct information gets passed around about Plan A. He is rewriting SAA to reflect the 3-4 weeks for women and up to 6 months for men. He talks about this on the radio at least once week. He has been a broken record.

He believes that women cannot handle more than 4 weeks before they start suffering health and emotional problems.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
Karma, I yanked out my book to see where these time frames came from. Funny how these things get passed around. I couldn't find anything that said otherwise.

In all honesty, it depends on what the person can handle.

Dr Harley has tried to make sure the correct information gets passed around about Plan A. He is rewriting SAA to reflect the 3-4 weeks for women and up to 6 months for men. He talks about this on the radio at least once week. He has been a broken record.

He believes that women cannot handle more than 4 weeks before they start suffering health and emotional problems.

I'm offended (not by you ML) by that last sexist statement and would like to point out that MANY BW's here have done Plan A longer than 4 weeks (myself included). I will stand by what I said before, it depends on what the person can handle.

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Originally Posted by Rocketqueen
[
I'm offended (not by you ML) by that last sexist statement and would like to point out that MANY BW's here have done Plan A longer than 4 weeks (myself included). I will stand by what I said before, it depends on what the person can handle.

BUT, you are not a psychologist and we are here to get Dr Harley's opinion, not our own personal opinion. While you might have been able to endure more than 4 weeks, I personally know women from this forum who suffer post traumatic stress disorder for staying in Plan A too long. Dr Harley recommends a very short Plan A for women for a reason: they have nervous breakdowns and suffer PTSD when it goes on much longer than 3-4 weeks.

There is nothing sexist about pointing out that women are very different from men. Women are not as emotionally tough as men. That is just a fact, Jack!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly. That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS.

The problem with a continuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.

So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover. In your case, you've noticed that you have experienced a detached feeling about it all, even your husband's filing for divorce. That's the way it's supposed to turn out. You are far more attractive while in emotional control of yourself than you would ever be begging and pleading for his return. You tried that tactic already, and it hasn't worked.

Plan B doesn't always work, but it does protect you from the intense emotional pain that you could be experiencing day in and day out. Your husband may divorce you, but it won't be because you have implemented plan B. And if he returns to you, it won't be because you have implemented plan B. But if he does return, with a sincere willingness to completely leave his lover and follow our plan for recovery, he'll find a wife who is still sane if you follow plan B.

If your husband goes through with his plan to divorce you, he will be making the biggest mistake of his life. But you will be far less impacted by the emotional fallout if you are in plan B at the time. Don't assume that his actions are your fault. You have done everything you can to get him back. All you can do now is to protect yourself from your husband's second biggest mistake of his life -- his affair. here


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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