I'm sure the answers to alot of my questions are answered tenfold in the thousands of pages here, and I intend to spend much time reading through posts here, but in an effort to get some immediate input specific to my situation, I've decided to write this post.

My wife and I have been together for 12 years, married for 4 - our anniversary was just a few weeks ago actually; We got together when she was 18 (a few months from 19) and I 28. We have one child, she is nearly 4yo. I'm 40 and stay at home raising our daughter, I shut down my business when our daughter was born to stay home and raise her instead of strangers doing it. This was a mutual agreement between my wife and I and there's no issue with it whatsover. She's 31, works in accounting FT, makes good money and insurance. We get by financially, barely. Finances does certainly cause stress in the relationship. Her first marriage, We got together when she was 18 and I 28Let me just stop right here and say, that I've known this person for 12 years and know what type of person she is and that I've never had any reason to not trust her. There's never been any reason not to, up until about a month ago.

My wife has had depression which started sometime during pregnancy, and continues today. She generally tries to hide it and does a good job of it too. She'll hide that she's crying or that shes cut herself, saying it happened some other way when I ask about a cut. She likes to garden, so often she just says a thorn got her. Expecting that's the truth, I move on. And now she holds is against me that I never noticed the crying or realized she was lying about how she got the cuts, I should've known she says. She's said that she's depressed, but me not having the illness, never was able to grasp just what it was doing to her and was likely one of the causes of her moodiness (ie bitchiness). She tried a few different medications and there seemed to be some improvement, but I guess was not as good as she hoped, citing it didn't really work anyway, and with the new insurance, was going to be too expensive, she tried a few natural remedies for a while, before returning to no treatment at all. She has never sought professional counseling for help with the depression.

So, every 6-9m since the baby was born, we'd get into this, you need to show me you love me more (her), and me saying it's hard to do when everything from your mouth is aggressive and bitchy. I told her you are just pushing me away and she would always reply with just give me a hug when I'm being bitchy. I told her the last thing I wanted to do was hug her when she was being bitchy. So around and around the argument went, blameshifting. Then there also usually thrown in the mix the you need to do more around the house, the clutter doesn't help my depression, she wanted me to go to bed with her when she did (reason I didn't usually was that I used the night time when wife and daughter were sleeping to have some me time, since I spend all day taking care of our daughter from wake to sleep and for years even through the middle of the night. Sleep issues with our daughter were severe for probably about 3 years) and other things she was unhappy with that slip my mind in this state.

We'd agree that we should seek counseling, and it was my test to pass to get it, but when the next several days went well and we were getting along, I felt we didn't need to seek help, we'd be fine on our own. My biggest regret! Only now, when faced with losing what is by far the most important things to me, did I look into things. Things like how to help people with depression. Seeking counseling. Figuring out the problems we were having were not unique. Realizing that depression has affected her much more than I realized, causing her moodiness, not just her being a [censored] as I assumed was the case.

So, a few months back she starts a friendship with someone from work who starts giving her compliments, talking to her, and so on. This turned into a texting relationship that really got out of hand. She claims it's just friends nothing more, just innocent flirting because she was getting her needs met that I was failing to give. And I believe her, because the next part of this story will tell you she tells the truth. Around the same time, she started going to some after work Happy Hours that I guess are frequent with the company she works for. Feeling that she needs time to socialize and hang out with friends, I was reluctant (due the drinking environment), but happy she was doing something with friends. The both of us really don't have friends that we do anything with, it's always been her and I and in the last four years our daughter of course. So I figured giving her time to do stuff with friends could help her. Unfortunately, it did. About 3 weeks ago, she met someone who works on a different floor than her who was also at one of these get-togethers. They began a severe texting relationship, that turned into an Emotional Affair. She was texting him non-stop, all day every day, in front of me, or not, though usually trying to not make it obvious. Typical stuff (from what I've read), she told him how she was unhappy at home and of course he was there to listen and compliment.

Backing up a bit, when I first realized there was way too much texting going on (and she saw my curiosity this one night), one night I went to her phone to see what's been going on, and conveniently all here texts had been deleted except a few from this guy that came in after she deleted the prev. ones. Confronting her with it the next day she said she knew I was going to look, and didn't want me to infer anything from them that wasn't there and that I shouldn't be snooping. My response was there shouldn't be anything to hide or a reason to snoop anyway. The next day, I got to her phone right after work and discovered the texting was going on all day long. So this was the first guy, who was nothing more than a source of attention, and before I knew how bad things really were getting in our relationship. I told her, stop texting him like that or it's not going to work between us. And I thought it had. Well technically, it did, but that's because the next guy was in the picture now.

So before I know about the EA, she sits me down and gives me the "it's not working" speech, only this time it was serious. In anger and tired of hearing the same thing over and over I obviously got angry, especially since I had been consciencely (sp?) doing things to make her feel more loved. More pda's, paying more attention to her, just being more intimate. She said she could tell, but it just felt empty. Like it was too little too late. Two days later, we have a non-hostile talk and agree that this time we are actually going to get counseling, and work to save our marriage. I'm ecstatic. This was mid afternoon. As we start getting our daughter ready for bed, she told me she was going to call her Dad real quick downstairs. So down she went, meanwhile, my daughter wanted to wear something that was downstairs in Laundry room. When we get down there, my wife seems a bit odd, and claims she's talking to her Dad. Ok, so we go upstairs, put our girl to bed, and she says she has to go make a call.

So anyway, she goes makes the call and comes back upstairs we go on about our night, everything is fine. Later that night, after she'd gone to bed, I went looking for her phone. The day before she had hidden it and I never found it. So the next day, I spotted the phone hidden in the bathroom drawer, and she knew I saw it, so once she went to bed, I was curious if she had left the phone there or hid it. Well, it wasn't where it was earlier, and wasn't anywhere in sight, so yeah, she was hiding it. Why? Shouldn't be anything to hide. So furious that she's still hiding something, I got to thinking, I wonder if it was really her Dad that she called. So I checked our phone providers website, which will list every incoming and outgoing text time and date and of course phone calls, and find out that she had lied to me and in fact did not call her Dad, but some mystery number. So I check the text message page and find that she'd had over 900 ingoing and outgoing messages with just this person in what I later realized was a hair over two weeks! So I started checking the other number (the first guy) and find that there's been a couple thousand texts to him over the last 2 or 3 months as well!

So upstairs I went, woke her [censored] up, and she told me she wanted to talk to him, he's giving her help regarding our marriage, making her feel better. Really? someone you've known for 3 months (was how long I was told and/or thought they had known each other at this point, later realizing it was really 2 weeks) So, again, even more furious, I left the house, in total shock, severe pain, and just f'n lost! I wanted to never come home again. I just walked a couple miles in the middle of the night before deciding to return home.

As soon as I opened the door downstairs (so she wouldn't know I was home), I checked on the computer again to see if she'd been texting him, and sure enough, basically the whole time I was gone, she was. Big fight, bad things, harsh feelings, the works all happened. Said she was confused, didn't know who she was, or what she wanted, wasn't good to anybody and didn't want to be in any relationship. Got an hour of sleep or so, and a bit after waking up, I told her if she has any hope for us, she has to stop all contact with him or we won't survive. She fought me on this, got terribly upset and mad that I was making her make a choice. I didn't care, I knew if we were going to fix us, she couldn't still have this guy pouring it on, telling her everything she needs to hear. Well, she reluctantly agrees to stop any communication with him. And from seeing phone records, she did.

So the next two days were great, in the face of losing my love, and realizing what I've been ignoring all these years, I was severely hyperbonding. And she actually like it. In fact I saw her smile, a smile I had not seen her do in YEARS. That felt good. But the next day (last Monday), she woke up and seemed rather short, probably resentful. She had made it very clear earlier that she didn't want to stop talking to this guy, but did. I found that a good sign. I schedule us for counseling, which was set for Wednesday. Monday evening, things between us were great, very close, not forced but genuine (at least on my side). Again, the next morning when I woke up, she was acting pissed about stuff, we had some relationship conversation via text, but was the kind of stuff that was best to not discuss until we got the counselor. She just seemed to be slipping away, I told her let's just stop trying to figure things out and get in front of the counselor.

So, our first session was yesterday. We spent a good portion of the time going over typical basic knowledge stuff about our family and childhood life. The kind of stuff you expect, but with only one hour to try to work things out I just wanted to talk about our marriage and her depression. In the end I didn't really find anything from the session helpful. Really, the only thing I took away from it was that my wife has to make a decision between our marriage or this other guy. Asked how much I wanted our marriage to work I answered 10 out of 10. My wife's answer was, if she answers with her brain, and 8 to 10, with her heart, she'd say a 2. She's already told me that too before, so it was no shock, but certainly hard to hear. She's said she knows what she was doing is not right and if she used logic (her brain) she would of course choose her husband, but her heart tells her, the other guy. Which blows my mind since it's a 2-3 week relationship. After counseling, my wife says, if she's going to be forced to make a choice, she chooses nobody. She confirms she's had no contact with the OM, but he has attempted contacting her which she just ignores.

Phwew, that's long, and probably not even 25% of it. but I'll stop this post here and in the next reply write out the latest feelings, questions, and seek advice from those of you who have been through it on what I can do, what I should/shouldn't do and how to cope with this most horrible feeling. I went through this type of stuff in my first marriage, as I was cheated on multiple times, always going back to "work it out", only in the end to find out she wanted a divorce, she'd found someone new, who afaik, didn't last very long. But this time it hurts so much more, as we've had a very long, trusting relationship, and now a child involved. Even though the physical affairs are absent this time, I think it hurts more because I wasn't already "used to" being cheated on as in my first marriage.

Welcome to MB.

Have you read this?
A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

I know you felt the need to get that all out but it's way too long to 'read and digest. It's like a wall of text. We need the cliff notes version.

She needs medication for her depression. My wife does well with welbutrin.

She is having an affair. Skip the counseling and spend the money on marriage builders.

I've started. and fully intend to read it all. Just having a hard time right now and wanted to talk to someone. I have a support group of one, and he's little help as his similar situation went on for 5 years before he couldn't take it anymore and pulled the plug, only to find out she was cheating on him all the time.

I've got more to talk about, but have to leave for a while now. I'll finish posting later tonight though.

Thanks

I'll see if I can narrow it down some. Sorry

She has to want it to work, and right now she doesn't.

What snooping techniques do you have in place?

just checking phone website, but now she's changed that password. My snooping driving her crazy and "doesn't need me or any man" any more. Just gettin' evil today.

That's a typical wayward.

Read this. Carrot and Stick of Plan A

When you get your Intel come here and tell the board.

More reading.
What are Plan A and Plan B?
Exposure 101
Thread to Help Newly Betrayed Spouses

This was as far as I needed to read.

2l, this is your problem. Your wife is having an affair with a co-worker, which is the oldest story in the book.

You need to find out who this pig is. Also, understand that your wife will need to leave that job.

Don't let her know about any snooping that you're doing. I know you may see things like texts that will infuriate you. Come here with those things. You need to find out who this jerk is so you can blow this affair out of the water.

She asks you to hold her when she's upset and you say you don't want to hold her when she's bitchy.

When you have a baby, and the diaper stinks, you don't want to change it but you do it anyway because it needs done. So even if your wife sounds stinky, hold her anyway. Understand?

You have a lot of work to do. It will seem overwhelming at first, but hang in there and do it anyway. There is a lot of reading. You will be told to install spyware, keyloggers, etc. Do it. Don't let her know your source, don't tell her about this site yet. Listen to the vets as they walk you through trying to salvage your M. MBs has a plan and it works, you just need to trust it and carry it out.

I know this hurts, it's hard, we've all been there, hang in there.

Step up your snooping and find out who this guy is and come back. If you can, get spyware on her phone. A good spyware program is eblaster at spectorsoft.com

Oh, I know who he is, name, phone and address. No other WS.

Since d-day, I told her we can't fix us if there's still an EA going on, and I told her to pick one. She told me she wouldn't contact him anymore and he'd figure it out. At the time I still had access to the phone records, and I saw that he would text, but she wouldn't reply. Was angry about not getting to talk to him, sit-norm I see, but had not contacted him, but he was still trying to talk to her, she ignored (supposedly).

So Thurs, she changed the password to the phone account, When I asked her why she would do this, she replied:


And.

So tonight, she was supposed to be going out with a friend. This is the very long time friend she knows and has never been or will be that type of issue. I know she'd been talking to him about all this stuff, and he even knows that about the OM. I think his stance on all this is basically "well, you sound like you've made up your mind" or something to that extent. (so much for exposure help from him?).

As much as I wanted to believe her, and can't stop feeling like I know she was really out with the OM. When she came home tonight after going out for drinks with her friend or OM I went up to investigate her purse. This is when I found out she now has her phone on password protect, so I can't check for text there and she shut down my phone account access. And I found a receipt for her drinks tonight, and just so happens she was at the same bar that her co-workers go to all the time. Would be odd for her to go with her friend there I think, or uncertainty is just getting the best of me.

Our circle of friends and family is really very small. Each of us only has like one friend the we really ever talk to, and both them already know about the EA, I think her sister already knows, and her Dad knows as of today, so really all that's left for exposure would be her Mom and work. So is exposure really still needed if most of our circle already knows? If I do exposure at her work place, I don't want any fallout to her job. She's got into a good company good pay and benefits, that is close to home and at a time when jobs are hard to come by. I'm sure they wouldn't fire her for this, but I don't know if she would want to continue to work there. We are a one income family (I'm SAHD), so if something happens with her work we'd be in big trouble, regardless of relationship status.

I've been reading, here on MB. It's all I've been doing when I get the chance. But I'm really struggling with her hiding stuff now. I know it's normal for WS to do this, but that sure doesn't make it any easier. Am I supposed to gain intel, keep cool about it, and do what with the anger? How is it possible. Do I confront her about last night, since I have no hard evidence? I can't believe anything she tells me at this point, unless I have proof.

We're still at a EA stage as opposed to a PA, I just don't think I can R if she takes it physical. GRRR this sucks...

VERY good point, and I sure wish I'd listened to that now, but at the same time, when you kick a dog every time he lay next to you, pretty soon he won't lay next to you anymore.

I found the following list of pro's and cons she had listed out. I'll write it here. Not sure when I was made, I suspect not more than a few days ago.

Pros (for divorce I'm assuming)

[list]

[*]"out of love"/ not in love with him
[*]trust not there (investigations). not even sure there at all in trust respect
[*]guilty/ guilt trips
[*]feel bad overall for so long
[*]baggage/history- Things I feel I can't shake off: Took too long, hospital, weight issue, nada when needed most
[*]Feelings for someone else (I believe this is in the context of it must mean something that she was able to have feelings for someone else, as this has been said by her.)
[*]Role modeling what exactly for him? Persistence + Committment versus following the heart? "out of love"/ not in love with him

CONS

[list]
[*]Our daughter
[*]established life style and integrated everthing
[*]comfortable, secure companionship
[*]Don't want to hurt him (me)
[*]Harder on own
[*]awkward coparenting life
[*]financial

How do I react when I'm so hopeful to pull her out of the fog, when she says stuff like there's no hope for us. I don't know if I can ever love you that way...bcuz everytime I hear it, it is the worst feeling in the world, physically and emotionally

Whom have you exposed to on OM's side?

If they still work together it's like the affair is still active. She needs NC for life.

Read this. Read my lips. NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT

Ignore this, 2L. This is pure fog-think. Concentrate on ruining her high. You have a daughter? Does your WW know that she will not be getting custody of your daughter in the event of a divorce? Does she know that you will not "be friends" after a divorce?

Its only needed if you are interested in saving your marriage. If not, then skip this step. Most of us that have saved our marriages exposed the affair. You should expose the affair to her sister, mom, workplace, the OM's parents and family members.

Does the OM have a facebook page?

As far as her job, she will have to find another job if you want to save the marriage. I would expose the affair wide and far and then demand that she end contact with the OM by leaving her job.

I have zero info on this guy other than where he works, name, phone number and address. How do I go about finding out more intel?

You realize this was not a list given to me, but one she wrote to herself. I guess it could still be fogbabble, just to herself?

I don't anything about what will happen custody wise. That's further down the road than I want to think about right this second. Since we do have a child involved, it will be hard to do for me, but the intention is to remain "friends" for our daughters sake.

I really need to know what do I do when I think she may have been lying or I snoop and find stuff I don't like. Do I store the info, or confront her. Because her seeing that I don't trust her makes her feel like I'll never be able to trust her again.

You DO NOT confront her!!!!

She knows she's having an affair. Why give away the small asset you have of knowing of her affair WITHOUT her knowing you know?

Start putting together the ammunition package of evidence to prepare for a full nuclear exposure. You're going to be working under the following gameplan.

Oh, yes, mention NOTHING to WW about MB, either. Put a smile on your face, and act like the dumb BH she's hoping you'll be. Meanwhile take care of steps 1 - 8 below:

NEVERGUESSED'S BETRAYED HUSBAND SURVIVAL KIT

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put a spy program on any cell that she might use. ("Eblaster" can cover #4 as well.)
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take "personal" calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and "on" whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife's contacts, to the tune of: "I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333"
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM's contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Try these.
Whitepages.com is a fabulous resource
Trying to Figure out identity

But you shouldn't trust her. She is untrustworthy. So it would be silly to pretend like you trust an untrustworthy person. If she says "YOU DON'T TRUST ME!!!" Just tell her "no shytt, Sherlock!!"

And then tell her you will give her an opportunity to EARN your trust if does certain things.

Trust is EARNED, it is not an entitlement program for undeserving wayward wives.

Yes. Of course. The first person a wayward has to brainwash is themselves. Otherwise she couldn't maintain the fantasy. I'm not asking you to consider issues like child custody right now. I'm telling you to line these statements up and be ready to use them. That you WILL go for full custody. That this will NOT be a friendly divorce. That you will NOT remain friends in the event of a divorce. Be ready with these statements when she starts flapping her gums about divorce.

Her fantasy requires that you cooperate, and a big part of your 'cooperation' is to agree to a friendly divorce and to hand her anything she wants. Be ready to let her know that reality is going to be quite different.

This is a gold mine of info, 2L! Google all of it and see what it brings up.

Also try:

www.intelius.com : This site brings up names of people who may be associated with him.

Search his name and address at your county auditor's website. If he owns a home, it will bring up his tax card. See if a woman's name is on the tax card with his. That would more than likely be his wife.

Think! There are a million sites on the web that are potential sources of intel. A simple google search alone will likely bring up a Facebook page for him, since just about everyone on the planet is on Facebook. If you can get his Facebook page, you have access to his friends list.

Come on,2L. Put some thought into this.

The first step to restoring your marriage is KILLING the affair.
This is WAR against the affair.
Read Exposure 101 (on brain hurts post above)

Alright, well its update time.

Yesterday I placed a audio recorder in the car for when she went out for "Me time". And, of course, me time translates to time with OM. So now I have the proof of what I suspected since D-day, that she has continued to see the OM despite assuring me she has stopped.

So, now some questions, in no particular order.
First, some things to consider. I am SAHD, have no car of my own, no income, no where to go to live, and of course my daughter who is about to start pre-school in 2 days.

I always drive my wife to and from work as it is close and that way we save on parking costs and I have a car to be able to go places. Do I continue driving her to work? If my daughter goes to preschool, I can't work, and therefore can't start Plan B. Do I tell my wife we arent' doing school and we need to find a daycare for our daughter?

I have been essentially been doing plan A, though have not done an official exposure as I had no proof. I've been focusing on being my behavior towards her and been working on being a better spouse. It's been working as a few days ago, she told me she didn't expect me to try, and that before she was asking for 70% and now I'm giving her 110%. Also she said that she was hoping for 70% from me, then expected 0%, then divorce, and now..... (she either changed subject or didn't finish sentence, or was incomplete thought). Point is she seemed to be coming around and realizing maybe a divorce is not what she wanted.

If the EA has gone PA, I can't live with that, and wouldn't be able to continue our marriage, as I was cheated on multiple times in my first marriage before finally being left for another man (hmm, history repeating itself, oh yea! : ( . So do I attempt to find out if she's been physical with him before doing anything else?

It was all I could do to not rush upstairs screaming and yelling and going crazy tonight when I heard today's recording, but if she's in a fog, and there is still a chance for us to survive, I don't want to do the wrong thing.

The problem is, she will know something is up, that something is bothering me, as I cannot hide it very well, and she can even tell by the change in my voice.

Do I act like I don't know anything and continue trying to WOW her with me "new" self?

Sorry this is all jumbled up, but that's how my mind is right now since just an hour or so ago, I got to hear proof that my wife was lying to my face repeatedly and that she actually left her husband and daughter home all day to go out with another man.

Another problem is that she has started drinking as this is how she met the OM, a bunch of her co-workers drink often at Happy Hours. In our entire 12 years together, she drank maybe 10 times total. Now she's out drinking quite often. Says it makes her feel good. When she's around our daughter and she is being a kid, my W can get very frustrated and say she needs to drink. Also heard the POSOM say that he drank a bloody mary first thing in the morning the other day. Really?! She wants to be with someone like that?!

What do I do?

As for exposing the OM, his last name is pretty much the most basic last name in the US and finding info in terms of his friends and family is basically impossible. His last name would be similar to something like "Brown" or "Jones", so alot of hits on his last name.

I know there is no other spouse. About the only person/people I could expose on his side would be his boss.

Do I go on being the new and improved me, giving compliments, and being how I should've been all along? I certainly don't feel inclined to do that right now. I can't even stand to look at her right now.

Ok so your first priority is to expose this. We will work out the details later for when and if you need Plan B, but first you need to find out whom OM is.

Can you afford a PI? He will be able to get the goods. Does your wife have facebook? Is he on there? Do you have a number for him? Can you try and look up info on his number?

In the anger. I know it's tough but you have to be Plan A Mr. James Bond. If your anger is too much leave and go for a walk or get away. Call a friend or family member.

Let's find out the goods on OM so you can kill this affair.

First off, whether it is an EA or PA, you have to kill it. You can decide later if you want to remain married to your WW, and a lot of that will depend upon her becoming remorseful and accountable. A wayward makes a lousy parent, as you've do doubt noted, and regardless of who gets custody (personally, I think as a SAHD you have a great shot at that), she will still have some level of involvement in your DD's life...and you don't want that involvement to include OM.

Second, on the drinking. During my own adulterous relationship, I drank a lot. For me it became another way for me to disconnect from what I was doing. I would sometimes drink an entire bottle of wine a night, by myself, sitting in front of the computer. Drinking was something else that had to go for me. I didn't realize that until I was out of my affair fog.

You should familiarize yourself with the divorce laws in your state. Is adultery grounds for D? You should also be able to get spousal support as she is the supporting spouse. While you are being James Bond, start getting those ducks in a row. Plan A while you are gathering intelligence will confuse the heck out of her, which is precisely what you want.

I know his name, address, phone number and where he works, they work in same building, different floors.

Problem is, as stated above, his extremely generic last name does nothing to help find any contacts on his side. There is no other BS. He has no FB page. My wife has one but is very inactive on it and has only 12 friends on there. He is not on there.

So, I'm supposed to act like I know nothing and continue being the ideal spouse?

So how do you guys do it?!? How do I be the ideal spouse, do plan A, all the while I know she is continuing to see the OM?

I already had my suspicions, but now that I know for sure she has not stopped seeing the OM, it's a wild rollercoaster of emotions that I'm really trying hard to suppress. For example, tonight she was texting until I came and sat down on the couch, then she decided to go to the bathroom (with her phone) and camp out in there for a while. When she came out I just went downstairs. I could hear her get up to go get her phone. So I waited a bit, and came upstairs fast, and sure enough, there she is texting. Sure she could've been talking to someone else, but I highly doubt it. I just want to ask her if she is really willing to throw away our 12 year relationship to be with the OM, but I'm sure the answer would be one of fogbabble. By far, the hardest part of all this for me is realizing how F'd up my daughter's life will be by not growing up with both her parents being together. It's really the most horrible feeling. I'm so scared for her. I don't want her hurt.

I believe if my W can get out of the fog, we can work to make our M better than ever. But I just get so scared that won't happen.

Today we went to buy plants for the house, and she was talking about buying plants for the yard to improve one of her rose gardens. Why would she do this if there's a possibility we won't even be at this house very much longer.

I'd just really like to know how you people that have done it, survive 6 months, 1year... knowing she's (he's) still seeing the OM/OW? I feel like by being the ideal spouse as outlined in Plan A, I'm actually simply enabling her cake-eating. How is it not?

It ain't easy, but this is when you learn how to stop LBing, how to start meeting her ENs, and become someone she really doesn't want to lose. I've been doing it for 5 months. Get ready--if this marriage lasts, you'll be doing it the rest of your lives.


I feel for your pain. But focus now on becoming the best dad you can be. You have the opportunity to make financial arrangements, research attorneys, etc. if things come to a bad divorce. You'll have the upper hand.


She plans on continuing the A and the marriage side-by-side.

Start gathering hard evidence.


I am under the impression she is supporting you, not the other way around--the only cake-eating here is that she's getting to experience you meeting her ENs.

Find hard evidence, figure out how to expose. You may need to hire a private investigator. Spend the time to do it right, since you've waited this long.

Quick question. I'll be picking up a copy of SAA today. Should I keep this to myself or is it better for her to see that I'm reading it and hope she will look into it.

Affair still active and I'm not ready for exposure yet as still have intel to gather.

A side note, her Mom who is full Korean, thinks she has never been free (we got together when my W was 18, now 31), and she has been dealing with alot of heavy things weighing on her mental state and to just trust her and let her do what she's going to do. By "trust" her, I feel she is saying to trust that in the end she will do the right thing. She also says that "pushing" her to do anything will, by her Korean (and her own) nature, just make her more defiant and make her do exactly the opposite, which I agree, knowing her as I do. Her Mom was furious that I put a recorder in the car the other day, saying if I can't trust her, our marriage is done and I could never have another serious relationship without the trust. Her Dad thinks, based on her personality, that the exposure would be sure death of any chance for R.

In what sense of the word "support" do you mean? She is actually the financial support of the family since I closed my business down to stay home and raise our daughter until she goes to school. So as not to have strangers raising our daughter while we both worked.

That is shocking to me 2L2L. Your WW's Mom wants you to let her daughter continue to be an adulterer because WW has things weighing on her? Have you told MIL how shocked you are?

It's funny how beginning to live your life in a respectable manner will cure depression and the weight of the world. Respectable and honorable people are generally happy people. Liars are angry and depressed.

How many marriages has WW's parents saved? They are advising you to live plan doormat. And since they know her so well I guess that means that they were not surprised to find out that she is stepping outside of the marriage.

Doing nothing looks like you don't care.

Be strong 2L2L. Your WW is becoming more entrenched in her affair as you sit back and plan A with no stick.

You ask how we do/did it...by keeping our goals in mind. Have you read:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2296184
and:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583

There is a LOT more reading on this site, but those would be good places to start.

I didn't understand all of the stuff about why not to expose, but you should regardless of culture or race, no exceptions.

Real quick,

I have solid proof from last Saturday that the affair has continued. WW does not know this. There was another incident last night, where I'm certain she was seeing him again (went to work out for an hour, returned home 2 hours after the gym closed and 4 hours after leaving). When she came home I confronted her with some "evidence" and she denied it. The way I "confronted" her on it was out of anger and likely a LB, but the anger got the best of me. My question is, when I feel like I know she is seeing OM, do I push the issue, try to find out info, or act like nothing is wrong and go about my business?

It was hard to act like nothing happened last night, as it is unlike her to disappear for 4 hours with no contact on a work night. She didn't get home until midnight and she's usually in bed by 11 for work next day. Acting like nothing was going on would've been weird on my part.

Started reading SAA, and wish I could just read cover to cover non-stop.

Was told last night, what I think happened didn't, but she want's me to think it did so that I move on and let her move on. Fogbabble, but very painful to hear.

Have you exposed?

No not yet. Need to acquire more proof, and his contacts. But the way things are going it's getting very easy to want to do. She just left minutes ago, again, to "go drinking". Lyihg all the way and it's all I can do to not call her Bull-s and tell her I know exactly what she is doing. Was really hoping to stop this before it gets physical or too physical.

Every time she's home now, she can't wait to leave. Super stressed at anything our 4yo DD does. Been wanting to drink to make her happy. She prob is going drinking, but I know she's either going to the OM's house or to the bar with him.

This is F'd!

2L2L, what is your proof of the affair? It takes MAX about 2 days to get proof. What is your intel and when will you be exposing?

There you go! Do you have a tail on her? Are you getting pictures?

Ok, now I am confused. You have proof. So why have you not exposed? And why doesn't your wife know you have the proof?

What is wrong with this picture? Do I smell a little conflict avoidance going on here? I see you have been here 3 weeks and you haven't exposed?

That means something is VERY WRONG here.

This is called ENABLING. Your wife runs around like an alley cat in heat and you say nothing? ARe you serious? That kind of complacence reflects a lack of CARING. Do you realize this?

If you are not going to follow the advice we give you, then this is hopeless. We have been telling you for WEEKS to expose the affair and you have done nothing. How many times do we have to tell you?

Are we just more serious about this than you are? Because it looks to me like we have wasted a lot of valuable time telling you to expose and it still has not been done.

The only "proof" I have is an audio recording which I can only here when they weren't driving fast. There's very little there, however, he obviously wasn't supposed to be in the car, as she was having a "me day". I was told earlier in this post to not let her know that I know, something to the tune of "why give her your best asset"

Given his basic last name, I haven't been able to secure any contacts on his side, though I was able to narrow down that his Dad's name is on the mortgage, and one of the sites listed probable relateds, but still haven't gotten FB's, ph, or email for any.

I'll admit, I'm back and forth between exposing or not, but every day that goes by, especially after last night, I see I really have no other choice. I'm actually scared to do it, but again, I've got nothing else to do, and the majority here can't be wrong. Everything she is doing is textbook A-ery, so I'm hoping that following the textbooks will net me the result I'm after. What's to say it doesn't just push her farther? To become NASTY when it comes time to divorce because of the exposure. I'm worried about losing our only source of income in a time where jobs are hard to find.

This is why I've been looking through posts to find motivation and tips on exposure. Also, desperate to get through SAA which I just picked up yesterday.

I don't have money to be buying gps units, her phone is not a pc phone, so no keylogger poss., she doesn't FB at all-but has page with 12 friends. Certainly no $ to hire a PI, and when she goes out, I'm home with DD and no car.

This is some amazing complacence on every single level. First off, it doesn't take weeks to get the information and it doesn't take weeks to expose the affair.

The fact that you are "scared" to expose the affair indicates you don't take this seriously at all. That might explain why you don't have the goods in all these weeks even though it is obvious to even a MORON that she is out catting around.

What kind of a husband puts up with that?


How about looking for "motivation" to save your marriage? Are you motivated in the least to do that? If you refuse to follow the advice here and aren't serious about saving your marriage, there isn't a damn thing we can do for you.

And isn't that all so convenient since you don't want to expose anyway?

Not a matter of convenience. A matter of can't afford. I only just proof the affair was still on 3 days ago. Can't very well expose without some kind of proof. And I still haven't found any of the OM contacts. Now that I have proof, I'm working on it.

So I can confront her and tell her I know she was with him Saturday, and last night, and tonight? And I'm supposed to do it Plan A style?

These are all EXCUSES. Even the poorest BS can scrape up a $100 for a GPS. Radio Shack has one for $99: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=13089009

When a person is willing, they find a way.

Just been trying to learn before leaping. Trying to do this as fast as possible, as right as possible. There is so much to learn, I can read all these great posts with info in them, all the MB free stuff and the books at the same time. Trust me, if I could I would be learning this stuff 24hrs a day, but my job is from when my daughter wakes up to when she goes to bed. It's hard to find the time to ingest all this.

Yes, you can expose. If you know the affair is on, you EXPOSE it. You don't have to possess a video tape.

Just the fact that your wife runs around like an alley cat, should be a CLUE to what is going on. I don't know of any married man who would tolerate that.

You're right. Thanks for your direct, stern approach ML, I appreciate it.

But some are not excuses, I cant keylog her phone as it's an older style regular phone, no software. She also has it pw'd as well as the phone carrier account online.

Is there a read here on how to do the confront in a calm and cool method and what should / shouldn't be said?

I'm sure I saw it here somewhere, probably in Dr. Harley's articles. I'm going to look for it. In Plan A?

You need to get moving, my friend! Be proactive and get to work. The time is NOW. The longer you are enabling her the worse it is going to be. You can't afford to put this off any more.

No. You do not need to read any such thing. Use your judgement and be FIRM and STRAIGHTFORWARD. You should DEMAND that she end all contact or this will lead to divorce. You don't need to read an article to do that.

But your confrontation needs to be backed up with some action or she will know you aren't serious. By action, I mean a hellacious exposure that starts with the workplace.

How does your wife have money to go catting around and you don't have money for a GPS unit?

You need to write your exposure letter and post it here for review.
Follow the Exposure 101 link. Below MelodyLane name.

On D-day, before I found this site, I told her she had to stop seeing him completely and that our 12 year relationship at least deserved a chance. So I monitored her cell phone usage for the next 5 days I think and as she said, she had not been texting him. He texted her, but she did not reply. I don't have access to her work email either where they may have been communicating.

I don't think she was talking to him at first, because day 2 and 3 she was very bitter and edgy. And told me she didn't want to have to choose and shouldn't make her. Eventually, I suspected she was back at it, but had no proof. Was going on what her Mom was saying, figuring if anyone knows her and how to deal with this, it would be her Mom. Mom's basis was she raised good daughters, and WW may be acting crazy, but to just trust her. Well, after last Saturday, when I trusted myself, I put the recorder in the car and sure enough I was right. So, this was only 3 days ago.

Guess I should've looked into the GPS sooner. Do I still do it now that I have one piece of proof? I also have printed one day, which was our anniversary, all the texts to and from him all day that day----our anniversary. I'm assuming those are useful. I wish I'd printed out all the pages and pages of texts when I had access to the phone records. Guess I figured she wouldn't change the PW if she wasn't hiding anything.

What good does that do when she already wants that anyway. Just yesterday she said she wanted me to move on and let her move on. If I tell her to end it or we get divorced she'll just say "Ok"

Yes. You are correct. Your wife will want divorce.
That is when you plan B.
Currently she is having a couple needs met by her affair partner, and several more by you.
In plan b (separation) she will need to have all of her emotional needs met by her affair partner. Most affair partners can't meet those needs.

In fact most affairs die within 6 months.

The quickest way to kill an affair is through exposure. This needs to be done tomorrow. Can you commit to exposure tomorrow?

The good it does is tells her the truth, that if she doesn't end her affair this will lead to divorce. You should DEMAND she end her affair.

What happened to doing plan A for up 6 months? I take care of our daughter, WW pays the bills. Don't even know how I'd do plan B. Haven't read up on it yet really as I was thinking that was a down the road kind of thing.

You should be very clear that she cannot stay married to you if she continues her affair.

You have not even STARTED PLAN A. You are in Plan Buttboy. You need to do PLAN A for a while and prepare for Plan B.

Our circle of friends and family is rather small. Her parents both already know and her Mom will be of no help, her Dad just says to start preparing for D by talking to lawyers and figuring out custody and such with WW.

Her sister is out of town, due back soon, she would likely be a great ally. WW FB friends and work. I'll have to do some homework on getting work info, as I can't just walk in, a keycard is required.

You need to expose tomorrow and you do that in plan A.
Plan A is being nice and meeting needs while at the same time DEMANDING the affair ends and your wife follow the MB recovery plan.

Your family needs you to act to save your marriage.

She already doesn't want to. Typically fogged WW. Is this a psychological tactic, as I see no benefit. I've already told her this and obviously she went back as most WW's apparently do.

For workplace exposure you mail a certified letter to the company.
Sample letters are in melodylanes link Exposure 101.

You also need to expose to OM family and married friends. You can usually find them on Facebook

Gather up all her friends and family's email addresses and do a mass exposure. Don't try and pencil whip this exercise or blow us off by saying "they all know." No, they don't. Send them out an email like the template in my thread asking them for support in ending your wife's affair.


You don't have to go to work to expose. You send them a letter. You can send an email to all those other people.

Can you think of any more objections?

You need to get your letter written and post in here when you do.
Can you do this tonight?
It takes about 15 minutes

Thats fine. You can tell her again. It is not a "tactic". Unless you are willing to stay in a marriage with 3 people? Are you?

and so what's my response to be when I demand her stop the affair or we will end up divorced, and she says "Ok". How do I respond to that (calmly)?

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

Say thank you!

What is your plan if she won't end her affair?

Calmly??

That's one of the problems, I have not been able to find info on OM's contacts. His last name rhymes with "with" and starts with an S, so you can see how that makes the search more difficult. I'd really like to find out his mom's info especially, since I was reading exposing to them is often instant A death.

Try doing a cross reference on his phone #. What have you done to solve this "problem?"

If you are too "calm' you are going to come across like you don't give a damn. Who is "calm" when they are being assaulted? That is not normal.

How do I contact her FB contacts? I don't have a FB page. Do I need to establish one to do this? Use hers?

Just last night I was able to find that it is OM's dad on the mortgage and verified this by the site estimating his age at around where it should be for his son's age. But I don't know where to find the ph numbers or emails. Search FB for all the contact names and none I found panned out.

Calm doesn't mean you can't be serious or matter of fact or show feelings. Just don't yell!!

Didn't say I was going to be able to keep calm, but trying to follow protocol here.

here

There is a big difference between being "calm" and having angry outbursts. No one is asking you to have an angry outburst. But being "calm" is unnatural and phony. It conveys a sense that you don't give a damn.

And be assured that you are supposed to make a DEMAND when it comes to ending her affair. That is not a selfish demand. I don't know if that is why you keep posting that paragraph.

It is very difficult. But, really, if you think about it, you can't control her decisions. You can't make her love you. You can't make her stop seeing him. You can't make her choose you. You can't control anything that is her decision to make. So, just "let it go" and relax in that fact!!! You just can't force her, so you don't have to rev up for a fight. You just have to draw your line in the sand. She either rises to it or she doesn't. You can't make her. So, if she doesn't, you have to decide if you deserve better. You have to decide if that treatment is worth you moving your boundary lower so she can walk all over you.

Go on her facebook page and copy all her contacts into a word doc and save it. See if you can find the OM on there. Then start up a facebook page of your own.


OM's dad on WHAT mortgage?

You need to create a Facebook account. That takes about 5 minute.

I'm not saying I'm not going to do it, but can you explain to me the benefit of doing so, when that's exactly what she wants. And what is my plan if she continues to see him? Do I go straight to Plan B then?

Where do I go? I've got only one friend whom I could stay with, but not my daughter. Her parents live next door. Can't really go there. Does she leave? She's the money. I can't just jump into this without looking. There's been so much to learn, so much to deal with, and I just want to do it right so I don't do the wrong thing and ruin the chance for R.

The goal is to FORCE HER to end her affair. That is what I am trying to help him do here.

You need to get your Facebook account set up and get your exposure letters out.

Your daughter needs her father to fight for her family.

Yes, it is beneficial to be honest. Your marriage will not withstand an ongoing affair.

You would plan on going into Plan B in a few months. In the meantime, you should be getting a job and preparing to support yourself. You don't have to move tomorrow. You have time to prepare. But you have to be proactive.

DONE
No luck, he's not there. And searching FB came up with nothing on OM.
Do I have to use my real info? I don't want my parents to know. I haven't talked to them in 2years and they will just say "told you so". Bad juju between them and WW.


OM's dad is name on OM's house mortgage, not OM's. But OM lives there and not his Dad.

She wants the "fun" she is having living a fantasy fog with OM. She isn't living in reality. Who wouldn't want to stay in la la land to avoid real life when OM is meeting needs and making her feel good? She is NOT thinking clerly!!! She should move to her parent's. She will have to provide spousal support. Is there an advantage in your state to filing first? Here, filing first gets you the house, the kids, etc..... until things are hammered out if divorce. If you don't kill the affair, there will be no recovery. She will get over the being mad. There is not getting over anything while the affair is still going on.

Use your full name and upload your picture. When you send out the exposure messages you will use your full name and phone number. And of course you need to tell your parents! You need their support.


OM's dad is name on OM's house mortgage, not OM's. But OM lives there and not his Dad. [/quote]

So you know where the OM lives and know his name? Did oyu find his dad's contact info? Where did you look?

Melody, you are right. I thought that it what I was supporting. Yes, he has to force her. I didn't say that right earlier. I was responding to him saying what if he forces and does all that he can and she still chooses other man. Sorry for not being clear.

Have you been to the house to bust them?

Yes you use your real info on Facebook.
For your profile picture use a picture of your family

Oh and print out and mail te workplace exposure letters tomorrow

So is the plan to
1. confront and demand
2. expose
3. wait for affair to die and deal with anger
4. if affair doesn't die from exposure, move to Plan B?

Moving to her parents won't do much good, they live next door. If I tell her to stop or divorce, and she says ok, then I feel she'll feel its game on and take her A to the sexual level, which hasn't happened yet.

No, it was only Sunday AM I found out this was still going on. She kept telling me she hadn't been in contact with him. Obviously, now I know she was lying.
Also, when she's gone, she has our only car and I'm left home with our daughter. Her mom isn't going to come over here to watch daughter while I go spy on her daughter. She was totally furious of what I did on Saturday (recorder in car)

She is already shagging the OM and it has already gone to the "sexual level." You have to stop being so fearful and tell her you will not tolerate her affair or you will divorce her.

As it is now, she doesn't believe you have any conditions.

When you do that, paint a very ugly picture of what it will be like. Tell her you will sue her on grounds of adultery and have that RAT hauled into court to give testimony about his affair. LEt her know yo will sue for full custody and possession of the home.

Have you been to the OM's house to bust them? What about calling the dad?

Our little girls first day of pre-school was today. That was hard. She's never been in daycare. If I have to go back to work, she'll need to go to daycare, which we can't afford. We scrape by, broke at the end of every two weeks.

You need to get on the stick and get this figured out. Drop the kid off at your wife's parents and have a friend take you there. Surely, you can think of a way to catch them?

And if you know the dad's name, why haven't you called him?

Listen you can't control your wife's actions.you can only control your actions.

She may get mad and have sex with OM.
My wife told me that after divorce she was going to cover herself in condoms and have lots of sex with lots of men.
Nobody can control another person.

Oh and whatever you do DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOUSE

I only just found out last night about his Dad being on the mortgage. There was no number attached. I guess I have to buy that info.

I literally know only one person who I could ask to do that. Orchestrating that may be tricky, as I usually don't know she's going out until it's happening. And again, I've only know for sure she was still seeing him since Sunday a.m. Not trying to make excuses here, but coming up with a plan is one thing, implementing can be another challenge.

You couldn't figure out a way to make this happen?

Surely, there is someone you know who can come pick you up and take you to the OM's house!!! A friend can watch your little girl if WW's family won't!!! Just get SOMEONE to take you over there!!!

And what are you doing to find his dad's #? Have you looked it up? On whitepages.com, pipl.com or any of the many other websites?

Ok, now I'm getting even more confused. If I have proof (audio) do I still need to catch them together? And when I do?

If she is over at the OM's house, wouldn't that warrant a little visit from you?

For now I would focus on your exposure letter and getting that done tonight.
The letter also needs printed out and mailed to the employer tomorrow morning.

Hide that audio in a place where she will not find it. Hide anything you gather, so she can't take it. I think you were told before that you have enough to expose.

I've been looking on Whitepages, Intelius, FB, linked.

Also you need to do a background check on OM.
You can do this online for about $29.
You need to make sure OM isn't a pedophile etc

Another way would be to go to the company's website tonight and send an email to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and both their supervisors. That might be the simplest way.

http://www.veromi.net/processor.asp
Checkmate dot com
pipl.com

Go here and find out the names of his neighbors: http://www.whitepages.com/reverse_address

http://www.peoplefinders.com/

She's home, going to confront now.

Well, confonted. She's had sex with him, recently. She tried to lie about last Saturday until I confronted her with facts.

"What does it matter anyway, I already wanted a divorce."

Much more, I recorded it, but right now I have to go die (figuritively, but how I feel)

No Sir.
Right now you need to get your exposure letters done.
Do not leave your house.
These exposure letters need to go out.


I'm very sorry that your wife has done this. I've been there and I know the horrible pain. But you need to stay focused. Follow the instructions and guidance from this forum and work the MB program. It is your best chance at saving your marriage.

You have had the best of MB posting here to help you. You have the rest of your life to die.

Now is the time to man up and get the exposure done.

Melodylane has never steered one wrong. She gave you perfect exposure letters, use them now.

She gave you intel websites use them now.

You need and must kill this affair now or you marriage will definitately die. Exposure is the life support that is needed.

By you not doing as guided here you are pulling the plug on the life support machine.

Stop listening to this babble. Of course WW will say that because that is how she justifies the whole thing in her own mind. But she has not filed and is still at home.


You need to expose because that will burst her little fantasy that she can leave the marriage and tell everyone that her and OM got together AFTER you separated/divorced. That is HER plan 2L2L.


Waywards live in a fantasy...exposure and the light of day is your most powerful weapon in killing their little fantasy. It forces them to face the reality of their actions.

I would also start looking for a job or ways to earn income at home. If your DD is 4, then she will be starting school soon and is old enough to handle daycare...start looking for a good one.

Women love strong men who take control of their own life and destiny. They LOVE them.

Trust me, any reluctancy in doing the exposure is LONG gone now. It's game on now! I've lots to do today.

My question, after finding out it's gone sexual, and the angry blow up I had last night at her, how do I act around her now. I want to say everything nasty that comes to my mind, and make her feel terrible for what she's done. Plan A says to meet her EN and be the good, annoying habit free, ideal husband. How the hell does one do that or maybe when is more accurate after finding out your W just shacked up with OM?

Took my ring off last night. I've kept it on this whole time, while she was of course not wearing hers. Don't know what I want in the end, probably still R, but do I continue to wear my ring? Would she see not wearing it as yet another sign to go crazy with OM?

Good job on confronting her!

Focus on doing your exposure and avoid lovebusters. This is not the time to pretend like you are calm and worry about your words. Focus your attention on killing the affair.

If there's a house, there's property tax being paid.

Many county websites have links to where you can search for property tax bills and other info. Check yours and, with the address, it'll give the owner's name. If the owner doesn't live there, there may be another address where he receives the bill.

Check it out, shouldn't take but a minute and you might get an address for the dad.

I had previously found that info on the county website, but it doesn't show anything I don't already know unfortunately. Think I'll need to purchase the information necessary. Problem is, how can I be sure I'm buying info for the right person/people?

So what about my case? Single income (hers).

In your case you expose.
Pasted below is a statement Dr Harley made to a similar poster :

You need to get your exposure done TODAY

Can you live without her income?

My WW quit her job (independent musician / bartender / barista / person who books live shows), as that occupation is a breeding ground for affairs and alcoholism.

Trust me, I'm trying for that. The quicker I can get it started/done, the quicker it pops their F'n bubble.



I'm sure it could be done. But she has enormous school loans to pay for, I have back taxes from my business which the IRS has said to take 25% of my wages when I do work. So it would be tough. Idealy, we'd both work I guess, at this point.

Qoheleth, you JUST exposed a few days ago. How'd it go? Hows things since?

If you don't get your exposures done today, you are going to fail. You have begun this process and to give up now is going to achieve absolutely nothing.

So, please stop posting about your doubts, stop blogging, stop making excuses and put all your efforts into exposing at the workplace and every place else just like I told you. GEt ahold of the OM's father TODAY. SEnd out exposure letters to the family like I told you.

So far, you brought a pea shooter to the gun fight with your confrontation last night. If you don't back it up with a TSUNAMI exposure today, you are going to get your [censored] shot off. Don't STOP.

Get to work!

Instead of looking for loopholes and ways to avoid conflict, how about writing up your exposure letter to the workplace and gathering the email addresses of 3 key authorities at work and sending the email?

It should take about 30 minutes to complete this process and here you are and still haven't done this.

Got it. I believe I've tracked down his mom and her phone number. Going to get the letters done up and continue working. Thanks for the motivation and keeping me on track!

Good man! Stay focused and don't stop until you have unleashed the gates of HELL on the affair!!

If I'm having difficulty finding contact info for POSOM, is it a good or bad idea to ask (for example) POSOM Mom to spread the word? Or ask her for contact info, or just tell her and get my own intel?

I'm quite certain I've found the Mom and phone number. May also have found sister.

Weird thing is, sometimes his dad's name shows up, but with OM's age. Other spots shows up his Dad's name with the appropriate age. I think the OM's first name is Dad's middle name. Making it harder to find S* out.

First ask the mother for her help in ending this crap that her son is doing. You can then ask for his contact info. Odds are she won't give it for fear of his getting his [censored] kicked, but you may be surprised.

If you have an address for the sister as well, send her a letter, too.

Human Resources Executive or Director?

Both.

Send it to as many people as you can.

Is this a paper letter or email? If email, follow it with an individual letter addressed to each target.

What if I can't find out POSOM work contact info. I don't even know what dept he works in. Only which floor. Is it enough to contact WW boss and HR director or executive assuming they will trickle down to POSOM?

Whatever I can find. It's a constant search for info. First I had to find the HR dept, now I have the names, now I need to try to find the contact info. Having to do this for everyone and it's taking a while.

Now I have to go get me DD from school. Will continue to work on this when I get home and all F'n day. So much to do, just hope I can get it all done in time to do Full Nuclear all at once.

My opinion?

Send the exposure letter to everyone that you can find a name and address for that has the slightest chance of knowing the OM.

I'm talking about sending it to the higher ups on down to the custodian if need be.

And emails really need to be followed up with a mailed letter to every person. Emails get missed, sent to spam, deleted without being read. It's rare these days for people to actually get letters so they have a greater chance of standing out.

I forget how many I sent to where my OM worked--think it was 40 or 50.

Intellius will give you the names of relatives if you search a name. There is a small fee involved.

starting to come together. Stopped by main office of workplace, have email for her boss and HR manager. Other contacts starting to fall into place. Continuing efforts.

The content of Brad's letter seems to focus on the fact that what they are doing is taking away from the company and really says nothing about what it's doing to our relationship. Is this the appropriate "tempo" for a workplace letter? Should I not say something about saving my marriage and family and so on?

They probably don't care about your relationship. It is obvious though that it is destroying it! Send this letter as it is to the employer. I think your exposure letters to family and friends should say, please help and that stuff. I know that someone will correct me if I am wrong!!

I would agree.

My advice to send the letter to numerous people in the workplace had in mind a letter that asked for help in breaking up the affair.

It may be appropriate to send a "formal" one like the template to the company officers with a separate "help us out" one to any co-workers that may be able to intervene.

ok

Northwood just said it right. Follow up formal letters to those who might be more influential or able to help is the way to go. So, will you get it ready and send it NOW? I wish I could hit the send button for you!!!! Taking this out of the darkness of secrecy and shining a light on the deceiptful adultry is the right thing to do!! It cannot stay hidden!!! She'll be mad. So, what? What about you and your family? What about your feelings and needs? She is in the wrong, now she will have to face the music.

Workplace Exp. letter:


Few changes, basically used as is. Good?

NOOOOOoooo problem doing this now. Just taking time to get all the info together for the all-at-once approach. Trying to get this done as fast as possible. I can wish it were done and ready to go now, but reality is, it unfortunately does take time to prepare the attack.

Looks good.

Send it to more than one company officer, adding a "cc: Bill Smith" or whatever at the bottom.

You want each recipient to know that others got it so that it's not easily ignored. Drop a paper copy in the mail as well.

Do I expose as I get certain areas ready? Or wait and do it all at once, but still within the day? I could send the workplace now, but don't have the FB stuff ready, and still trying to finalize POSOM's contact attack.

My understanding is to do it all at once. Yes? NO?

I would do it all at once.**




** "Do it all at once" means that I'm thinking you'll do this in the evening or morning after looking up crap on the internet.

But, to keep up your momentum with WW, go ahead and send it. Follow up with the rest of your targets tonight.

Please listen to northwood, he is giving you great advice! And be sure and shoot out a mass email to her mother and family members using the letter I gave you.

Keep up the good work!

Good to go

Doing otherwise gives them a heads up that something is coming and allows them to formulate a defense:

"Hey, Earl, there's this nutjob that thinks I'm fooling around with his wife. Ain't that a laugh! Anyways, he's liable to say just about anything so just ignore it."

NW, here is the problem with him. He is a conflict avoider and if he can't find info on one person, he will put off the entire exposure. That is why I think it would be better for him to roll with what he has. Otherwise we wil be sitting herein the same position atChristmas.

He will tell us in 6 months that he couldn't expose because he is still trying to find contact info on grampa festus in crapwit, Utah and northwood told him to wait until he could expose all at once.

This dude needs to expose NOW, on the heels of his first confrontation.

Well, I was thinking that he meant tomorrow but if "tomorrow never comes" then I'd agree that he should go with it.

I don't think I have the patience to follow another circular thread.

Lol, my blood pressure can't take another conflict avoider delay! tomorrow never comes with a conflict avoider!

Whoa now! Y'all leave me and Grandpaw Festus out of it!

I'm going to go edit my response, add an asterisk or two and hide the evidence!

I'm not avoiding any conflict. I only have to picture one thing in my mind, quite unpleasant, and it's more than enough to kill any hesitation. Not avoiding conflict, just going by the book with the "all at once" approach. I don't want this S* going on any longer than it needs to. Time is of the essence. Still, it does take time.

2l, you are doing great! Run with what you have. You have enough now to inflict some serious damage. And be sure and send out a family email TODAY,describing her affair and asking them allot talk to her.

You guys/girls are brutal. But I like it.

K. Going to get the peronal exp. letter drawn up now. Will post here shortly.

Doing good! Just stay the course, my friend..

quick ?,

There's a few coworkers of hers (cubicle neighbors) she's been talking to about the demise of our relationship. Some of their "assistance" was re-assuring WW that our daughter would be fine in case of D, because she is so young. This makes me furious. These people have met me, and they are nice, good people, just think they are giving advice based on biased info. Don't know the extent of what exactly she has told them, but I'm sure it was biased in her favor. I doubt she told them there was OM involved. ? is, do I tailor the personal letter to include something along the lines of "I know you have heard WW's side of the story, but here is what is really going on..."

Basically, do I need to shed an accurate light on things or just let the standard letter do it's thing?

That might be a good idea. See,now you are really thinking!!! And ask the coworkers to use their influence to persuade her to end her affair. You might get a snotty response from them so just be prepared, ok?

Definitely target any co-workers that you can identify. Just send them the friends/family letter that ML posted on page 8 of this thread...


Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the life of xxxx. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As as a friend of ___, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

Ok, so here's exp. letter to WW's contacts:


Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of WW and I. As some of you may know, WW has recently asked me for a divorce, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a coworker named POSOM who resides in xx. The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference. I would be happy to provide evidence to anyone who asks.

She refuses to end the affair. We have been together for 12 years and have a beautiful 4 year old daughter who could be deeply affected by this tragedy. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on WW, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, I want to keep our family together, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with WW to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

I've only been able to get contact info on POSOM for one person, his Mom, which is the best one to have, but is one going to be enough? I'm assuming he will hear from the HR and/or his supervisor, but can't say for sure.

Searching for contact info just on OM just keeps going in circles. His assumed sisters ph number is the same as the mother. There are 12 addresses, but not sure how to figure out current one.

His mother and HR are excellent targets. Run with it and if you find more tonight you can add it.

ok. here goes.

Could use tips on dealing with aftermath. I know I read "I'm sorry you are so upset, have a cookie", but this can only be said so many times when she keeps asking me why I did it. Do I tell her I'm going to do whatever I have to to fight for my family and wife?
Avoid her, go someplace else? I'll try to read up on it, but could use help here.

oh, real quick, any reason I should use my unknown (to her) email or just use my normal account for the emailings?

Use your normal email and sign your full name with phone number.

I would get the keys and tell her she can't leave you home alone with no car again she can go cat around. That is unacceptable.

When she attacks you for exposing, don't make excuses or justifications. Don't fight, beg or plead. If she keeps it up, just leave the room.

Phone script for POSOM's Mom:


Is the "kind of person he really is" part going to be too offensive to the mother? Essentially attacking the type of children she's raised. Will this not just piss her off, and blame my WW? What do I do if she turns it around and puts it all on my WW?

You are wise to not insult her son to her. Just ask for her help and ask her to speak to him.

HR, coworkers- exposed.

Need to call OM Mom and do FB exposure. Should be easy only 9 contacts on WW side. Still unable to find one for POSOM.

Waiting for email on WW Sister. Parents know now their daughter is not the type of girl they thought she was. First place I went after last nights confrontation was to their house. Her mom seemed shocked and thought WW said she had sex w/OM out of anger. I will print them out a letter and give it to them to make it official I guess. Likely they (or at least her Mom) will be pissed about making this public. I dunno.

So, her mom didn't have a problem with her daughter having sex with another man b/c she was angry with you? It doesn't matter what you have done/not done or that she is angry/resentful at/of you!!! There is NO excuse for her to handle the problem(s) by turning to another man and having an affair or having sex with another man? Turning outside the marriage will NEVER fix the problems in the marriage. So, what did you say to her mother when she said that?

Already got two replies back from the cubicle mates.

One response:

The other:

No, she just didn't want to believe that her daughter could do such a thing and maybe said she had sex with OM out of anger. Her Mom thinks she didn't raise "trashy" kind of women. I told her emphatically with swear words, that is F'n true, believe it. She's not the daughter you think she is.

Good for you, 2 little!!! Take a deep breath!! Stand tall, she's gonna blow her top and blame you every way from Sunday. Don't listen to her fogbabble!!!! No more hiding behind secrecy! Killing the affair is your first and primary objective!! Her responses to your demands are hers and hopefully, you will be strong enough to deal with them as they come. Stay strong!!!

Really need to figure out exactly how to deal with the approaching storm. What to say, what not to say.....

OM's mom - just got VM. Leave one? Didn't, but should I?

You don't need to fight!! You don't need to justify your actions! One thing you can say is that you want to give your marriage every chance to recover. There can be no recovery if she is in a active affair. Tell her that her secrecy enabled the affair, so shining a light on it gives her a choice to do the right thing now. Tell her that you are done enabling her. You deserve better. Your children deserve better. She has a choice to make as she can't have him while being married to you. Tell her if she chooses him, she is on her own. She is going to be steaming and not really a person who can be reasoned with, so if you can, just think of her as in a crazed state and that you don't have to get emotionally invested in the argument. Just don't. It is matter of fact. Later, you will get emotional.

While that sounds good, it also sounds like justification, and I know her response will of course be fogbabble. I guess I'm looking for the one or two sentences to reply to "WTH were you thinking, why did you tell everyone. What do you think you were going to accomplish with this" type of questions.

So far, I've read "Sorry you are so upset, heres a cookie". Think I've read something to the extent of I'm going to do whatever it takes to fight for my wife and family, and another I think I read was something like "if the affair is such a good and wonderful thing, you should want everyone to know about it."

Really wanting short answers here, as obviously there will be no reasoning with WW nor calming her down. I'm planning to just disappear I think for the night. Bummer is, I have to go pick her up from work in about 2hours.

Why should you disappear? You've done nothing wrong and you need to stand firm and not leave your house or your daughter.

"I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage."

Rinse, repeat...


Good Luck!

Primarily because it would force her to stay home. I feel fairly certain she will just run to OM first chance she gets. I dunno, maybe not. Every time we have a serious talk or fight, first thing she does is get to texting or calling him.

Secondarily, to avoid the wrath.

No, don't disappear. Just tell her you were spreading the news of her affair and ask "is there something wrong with that?" Tell her you won't be keeping it a secret and leave it at that.

Don't overthink this. There are no right words when it comes to dealing with a WW.

Did you speak to her mother? Did you expose to her family yet?

Don't give her a heads up about your exposure to the OM's mother or human resources. Let her find out on her own.

Hide the keys.You don't get stuck home as babysitter with no car while she cats around like an alley cat in heat. If she wants to do that, she can walk or take a cab. But you and your child should not be left carless so she can go chase some scumbag.

And if she starts texting or calling the OM, tell her to "take your affair conversation out of our home. This is our home and is no place for our affair!"

exposed to Sister, and parents last night. But to parents was immediately following the confrontation and realization she had sex with OM. Oh yea :rolleyes:

Honestly, right now, I don't want to look at her, see her, hear her, ......

And what was her parents response?

Well, it wasn't really a formal "exposure" so much as it was "your daughter F's other men" and telling her Mom that she was dead wrong in the "Trust her" ideology. I wasn't there physically or mentally long enough for it to be a real exposure. I plan to give them a copy of my letter tonight. I don't know what they will do, I'm not holding my breath though.

Left VM on what I hope is POSOM's Moms voicemail. Said I was looking for her (name) and hoping she had a son named POSOM that lived in Tacoma. If it was right number, please call me back. Haven't heard anything. REALLY hoping it's her, as the only one on POSOM's side that I've exposed to is the HR department.

Hand them the letter and say with heartfelt sincerity: "your daughter has admitted to me she is having a sexual affair with Joe Scumdawg. I am asking for your help - for your grandson's sake - to persuade her to stop her affair. Me and son need your support. Can we count on you?"

Does the mother have a facebook page? Do you have her home address?

So glad to hear of your exposure. You are in great hands here.

2L2L. Exposure is about asking for support and help in stopping WW from her destructive actions. Don't make it mean and spiteful. That will only be turned against your own character.

pokerface is exactly right, 2l2l. I would suggest you apologize to them for your angry outburst. They are a victim, just as you and DS are.

You're going to have to face her, stand your ground, and not avoid this.

I second ML's hide the keys. Or better yet hide the car battery if you can't get the keys.

These quotes are perfect, although I never suggest the 'have a cookie' thing - it sounds dismissive. Other than that, let her know that you are AT WAR; not in those words, but using phrases like "I will do whatever it takes to save this marriage." You're not going to be able to reason with her. She's an addict. Stay solid and strong and let her no that there is nothing you won't do to save your marriage.

WWs mother is trying to avoid some misguided sense of responsibility for her daughter's behavior. Reassure her that she is not responsible for her adult daughter's choices and ask for her support.

Wouldn't she have left you already? Obviously there is a reason why she is staying with you, or she would have left you by now. There is a reason she is not running off to OM. That reason right now is probably your DD. Make sure your WW knows that she will NOT be taking your daughter ANYWHERE. Your daughter will be staying WITH YOU.

Let her know that you will file for divorce and go for complete custody of your daughter. You will not allow your daughter to be around OM. You will request the court to grant you child support.

Let her know that reality bites when you're a wayward.

"I'm sorry that you're upset about others knowing of your affair, but I'm not going to get into an argument with you over it."

Then leave the room. Whenever she tries to start something, just call out the behavior and tell her that you're not going to let her drag you into a fight over it.

You did great, by the way!

Stay home! If she wants to leave, fine, let her leave.

Yes, that is true, but considering it was less than 24 hours ago that I found out my wife of 12 years let someone have sex with her, a month after they met makes me sick to look at her and be around her. Went to pick her up from work, and she acts like everything is normal. Not the slightest sign that she feels bad for ripping my heart out. Especially when she knows that my ex-ww did exact same thing to me 3 times. Only this time it's worse, as we have a child together, my ex and I never did, THANK GOD!

Anyway, made her drop me off, her and DD went to store. I didn't want to be around her. Not one mention of any exposure, so I guess nobody has talked to her yet. Kinda bums me out actually.

Told her last night after demanding to stop the affair, and she just stated she wanted a divorce anyway, I said that I was going to sue her for adultery, subpoena him, phone records, email accounts, and go for full custody. She replied with a surprised "Are you threatening me?", to which I simply replied, it's not a threat, it's what I'm going to do.

I went over there, basically pissed because against my better judgment, I trusted WW Mom about the whole "Trust Her" (WW) thing. First thing I said to her was "You were wrong. She's had sex with him".

Probably not the best time to have gone over there. I literally went from the confrontation, next door, and told them about it, and then left. I was in no state of mind to be doing a "exposure" at the time.

Right way to do it, probably not, but I expect they should understand considering the wonderful news I was just given. F'd thing about it is, they haven't even called to ask me how I was doing since.

perfect!

Now, where is your wife tonight?

Is that a LB? Acting, well it's not acting, but not wanting to be around her so soon after discovery? I don't think so. It was kind of nice being so busy getting exposure done all day today, kind of kept my mind off of the "news", but now that - that's done, it's sinking back in again, and F'n painful.

SAD

They (WW & DD) went to the grocery store.

I understand completely.

and to think, if I'd listened to her Mom and NOT put the recorder in there last Saturday, she'd still be lying, trying to convince me I'm crazy. One of the best feelings ever was when I asked her about Saturday, she lied, and I confronted her with the facts. Gloves off at that point, and it was only then that she started telling the truth. So glad I had that proof!

So WW is just walkin' around like nothing ever happened. Finally, I couldn't take it anymore and asked her, "how can you just walk around like nothing's happened?". She replied, what should I do, how am I supposed to act? To which I said "well, showing some remorse would be nice" > "I've already done all my remorse" and some other BS that I didn't hear due to the lack of compassion.

Is this just the person who is not my W speaking? I'm sure it's likely normal, but while I wished I was in a coma all day, she's runnin' around just fine as can be.

Sorry for your pain.

If I see her, it makes me sick, I can't stop envisioning things I never thought I would. If I avoid her, isn't that just giving her what she wants. All the free time to text him at will. She had told me a few days ago that "what i think happened didn't" and that "I kinda want you to think that so you will move on and let me move on"
I don't know my point, just trying to deal with this BullS***. Been just about 24hours since I found out. F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Brain. At least someone can apologize and sympathize. I know most of you here have all probably been through this. As have I, but god, that was 13-14 years ago (ex WW), plenty of time to heal and forget how it feels.

You need to think of it as an alien walking around in your wife's body.
It looks like her. But it's someone else.
Try to view it as being a character in a movie

It hurts just as bad no matter when you find out. We've had posters find out years after the affair and it's just as painful.

From a legal standpoint I need to tell you DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME!

My wife would spend nights away because she hated me and wanted to be with OM. During custody evaluation, the court looked very unfavorably upon her leaving the marital home and named it as one of three reasons for granting me full custody during the divorce process.

Courts look at what parent is most stable for the kids. And they should. Leaving your home is not stable for your kid. Your kid needs you. Children know when there is marital conflict and it's like WOrld War to their lives. Please be an anchor to your child.

Remember to take care of yourself.
Eat and drink regularly.
Stay away from alcohol.
Use sleeping pills if you need to and visit your family doctor and tell doctor what is going on. They can perceive meds for any anxiety/ sleep disorder/ depression

At this point you also need to have a hidden voice recorder on you at all times.
Sometimes women will falsely accuse men of rape, assault etc to Get them out of the home. In your case, assume her parents may be willing to lie for her.

I would encourage you to stop discussing any strategy with her parents.

Do not tell anyone about this website

Brainhurts reposted this good post from '08 in another current thread, I found this disturbingly familiar:


Funny, that's exactly what I felt last night. I told my WW, "you see that?" (pointed at the floor), "Do you see this?" (pointed at myself), "this is what it looks like when you rip someone's heart out, throw it on the ground, and stomp it into the ground."

She started listening to this statement looking right at me, but by the time I got to the "...rip heart out...." she looked had to look away from me.
____________________

One thing I thought of, what should the reply be to "how many people (or who all) did you tell?" [regarding exposure]?

I've been following along and you are getting great advice.

Just wanted to chime in here as I experienced a similar avoidance (as other BS's have). I expected a screaming wayward, but instead got... pretty much silence.

After exposure my WH text me a bit of a tantrum threatening D ASAP. Over the coming weeks he kept texting me that "we needed to talk". However, he avoided me like the plague (pretty easy since we are in different countries), and when he did phone he would discuss everything but the A; what was on TV, work, the book I was reading, even the WEATHER Never the A or my exposure. So don't think your WW is doing anything out of the ordinary.

When a wayward changes their beliefs to suit their actions... they will not feel remorse. IMO, this is what the fog is. Sacrificing beliefs to justify actions.

Many women never express empathy.
dr Harley explains this is SAA

When she asks about exposure.
And she will ....expect her to be angry.
Stay calm.
Say something like "OM is a danger to marriages and married people have a right to know so they can protect their marriages from him"

Or "I am willing to work with you to create a loving and healthy marriage where both of our needs are met"

At this point you don't get into further conversation. Conversation about the affair results is massive Love bank withdrawals.

Posters will advise you to offer her a cookie and walk away. When I was first advised that I thought it was a joke. But I started doing it. I would offer her a glass of juice. Example:

Wife "I can't believe you betrayed me by contacting my friends on Facebook. This is between us, not them. "

Response: "I just bought some vegetable juice. It's the store brand but it tastes like V8. Would you like a glass?"

Don't get drawn into discussions about the affair. Another statement you've probably heard 100000 times:

Wife: "I don't know what you think you're doing. I'm worried about your mental health. You are imagining that in still having an affair. "

Response: "would you like a glass of juice?"

Or

Wife: "you can't stop people from being in love."

Response: "NCIS is on tonight. Would you like to watch it with me?"

Hey my brother in pain. Just wanted to say I get what you are going through right now. DDay for me was March 2011 and I will never forget the day my heart was ripped out of my chest.

I too struggled mightily to regain my sanity, stability and just come to terms that this is reality. Some days you just don't know which way was up.

Unlike you, I didn�t have this forum with others which I could relate to. I felt so isolated in my pain not knowing if what I was experiencing was �normal� under these circumstances or not. Was I crazy??? What the hell is going on with my mind and my body??

Truth is my friend, you are experiencing emotions that you have never experienced before. Some days I would set a goal to just get through the next 2 minutes, then I would go for 5..then most of the time back to 2. I had been married 14 years with 2 children when I found out about my W�s adultery. We have been together since early 1992. I was just floored and absolutely devastated.

I would encourage you to read in the recovery forum about false recovery stories. This might help you gain some perspective in your current mental state to hear what some of us would have done differently when we were where you are at now. I would have done several things much differently right after dday if I would have had this resource to better understand what works and what doesn�t work.

SAA was a god send for me. Staying close to my family and friends helped. Please try to eat and sleep right now best you can. If you can get to the gym or exercise at home, this might help too. I tried AD�s early on and they didn�t agree with me so I backed off. Wish I would have asked the Dr. to prescribe something else like Wellbutrin.

Focusing on yourself right now is my advice. She is crazy out of her mind. Hopefully her sanity will return but for now an alien has abducted her.

Good vibes your way ~~~~

Hidden Voice recorder

Find one at radio shack or walmart

Protect yourself

The lack of remorse from a WW is incrediblly mentally painfull

Think about AD, Welbutrin does work, first hand experience, takes a while and not too many side effects......

Its just to get you over the early stuff, I needed it about 3/4 year.....

Not wanted it, needed it

Take care of yourself, eat, sleep, offer cookies or juice when the wierd stuff comes out of her mouth!

Oh dont leave your home, lawyer said you will never get back

And sleep in your bed, it is way more comfortable than the couch!

I want to add a couple of thoughts for you.

Never give up hope. Never give up on yourself.

However this turns out, you can grow in ways you never thought possible. After dday, I thought my M was over. We had a 9mo FR but now we are almost 10 months into R and our M has never been better. Yes, it is a very difficult struggle for us. Yes, it is not all Skittles and Rainbows..R is HARD. Very hard. Good days, Great days, Bad days. Yep. We get them all.

However, MB has given us the tools to create a marriage environment I never thought possible. Following this plan is allowing us to have the M we always wanted. It can for you too.

There are no guarantees in this. You don�t know how it is going to turn out. I think that is the scariest part. The fear of the unknown. Following the vets advice here will give you the best chance. ML and others can guide you through.

I encourage you to STAY STRONG. Do not bend and enable her. She has stabbed you in the heart, kicked you in the face and done despicable deeds. Don�t roll over and let her continue to do so. You must be strong now in a kind and respectful way. As HARD as that is..it is the right thing to do.

There is hope. Don�t let it fade.

You can't believe anything she is saying at this point.

If I'd have been asked that, I'd have laughed and said something along the lines of "Is that all you're worried about?" while walking away.

Please read all of this and the other link that's in the thread. Watch for the same things.
False Recovery

I remember times in the height of my depression sitting in the living room with my kids (wife had been kicked out of the house) and all of us SCREAMING at the TOP of our lungs trying to release anxiety�.the kids thought it was funny�.little did they know the reasons why. There can be so much pinned up anxiety that we all have to find ways to release it. Actually, screaming did help. lol. Although the neighbors probably thought I was insane!

Thanks for the posts 20. I appreciate them, as I do from all of you who are helping me through this, the WORST time in my life.

Still ZERO fallout from exposure. I think POSOM may be out of town, he apparently travels (regularly?) for work. In her work, they are right now in the process of the busiest time of the month or quarter. I don't know if HR, and bosses are going to do nothing, are waiting for busy time to be over, or if they are just formulating an action plan.

Speaking of action plan, I've been in contact with one of her co-workers I exposed to and he has been asking questions. But I told him our marriage can survive, and we can have a better M than ever before, and that this is not just some pipe dream, that I have a plan (MB). So, forgive me for the stupid question, which I think I already know the answer to, what's my plan? I'm assuming following the SAA book to a Tee. I just imagine this co-worker coming back and saying, so what's your plan. I don't want say uh, umm, .......

Aside from killing the affair and NC letter, is there a short version of "the plan" that can be or should be conveyed?

SOOOOooo much reading to do. All these 1000's of threads, the books. Don't know where to start. Feel like if I'm reading one thing, I should be reading something else.

Is there anywhere that lists in a basic outline format with ideal timelines the recommended process of SAA?

More questions.

So because I'm such an unloving husband, I always would go to the store just because she wanted something a snack or a drink. I'd make her lunch and breakfast for work. Cook dinner. And alot more, small, caring things that I always thought showed I Love her. My question is, since I'm Plan A-ing it, and only 2 days ago I found out she's been sexual with POSOM, do I continue to do those kind of things. Wouldn't not doing them be LB's? Or is doing them enabling her affair. "Have sex with him, I'll still make you breakfast"

On the way to work today (oh I also always take her to and pick up from work), she was mumbling about really wanting a coffee. So I dropped her off, dropped off DD at school, and went got a coffee for her. She came down to get it and was thankful. Just don't know how I'm supposed to act around her right now. Looking at her hurts so bad. I know how I want to act, but it would do nothing but push her to POSOSM. MIght as well just drive her over there.

To start, you don't have to answer to the co-worker so put that at the bottom of your list. "My plan is to get this POS OM out of our lives and I'd appreciate your using your influence with WW to make that happen."

Still no answer at POSOM (assumed) Mom's phone number. Left a message yesterday which may have been a huge error on my part since I left my name. But nobody called back. It may not be her though. If it is his Mom, she probably would've called him to ask "do you know who this "BS" is? Bcuz he called her asking about you". If that happened POSOM would've texted my WW about it and I assume I would've heard about it. Just tried calling again, and got answering machine again. Going to try again later today but *67 my phone and see if that works.

You've discovered that Plan A really sucks for a betrayed spouse. You want to Plan A, eliminate LBs and be an all around nice guy to live with BUT making sure that she knows that you will not chose to stay married to her if the affair continues.

MelodyLane posts a nice list of "Things that will make me stay married to you" that she suggests to many BS's. Maybe she'll post it for you, I'm having trouble finding it.

So, keep up with the Plan A until you cannot do it any longer. You'll know when you're there, and I don't think you're there yet.

Give exposure a little time. Have you covered all of her friends and family, directly asking them to intervene? OM's family, mother or whoever spawned him?

I'll post the link that Pepperband posts about the carrot and stick of Plan A.

Ok, my theory was, the more info he had, so long as it wasn't bashing my WW, the better he would be able to help. I know she has already been talking with him in the past about our M, so figured I might benefit from him knowing more of my side of the story. His response, which I posted a few pages back, was at first, that he didn't want to get involved unless she came to him as it's a very personal matter. So I don't know if that's changed, but he's been the only one I exposed to that has been talking to me about it. This morning, he asked how do I know, did WW tell me? Told him I had plenty of proof and yes, she admitted it.

Read this on how to act when she's at home...

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...&Number=2296184&nt=11&page=1

Keep trying OM's mother. Your supposition that your WW would have heard about the message seems correct. Mother may be out of town.

Gotta go now, DD pickup at school, be back later. Thank you!

If she appreciates these little gestures, then continue to do them.

One thing though, have you read Chapman's "Five languages of love"? They are kind like Harley's emotional needs, just broken down a little differently. One the love languages is "acts of service", which it sounds like you enjoy doing for her. Only one problem, it might not be HER top love language (or emotional need).

That's what happened in my situation, I for years tried to show my ex-wife love by doing acts of service, cooking great dinners, caring for the kids, doing the housework, making her life as easy as possible so that she could devote time to the kids. But guess what, none of that was filling her love bank. What she really wanted was conversation, admiration and affirmation, and affection, which I didn't provide much of because I was caught up in acts of service.

Oh, I thought he was asking how you were going to save your marriage.

Short answer is the same--use your influence to get OM out of the picture and here is my proof.

He's not another OM is he? You sure as hell don't want to create one while trying to get rid of one.

I bet the coworker is trying to get intel for your wife. Might be fun to feed him some scary stuff about having them "watched" , etc. Just be creative!

Don't forget to follow up that exposure email with a real paper letter delivered to them. You can skip the ones that have already responded, but I'd make sure to get those out today.

Emails get missed sometimes. Letters with envelopes clutter desks and are harder to ignore.

Wow, good point.

You never know so it's probably best to toss some misinformation in there as well.

Stay strong, 2little_2late. Become a detective: figure out your wife's top emotional needs. What ENs did the OM meet? Zero in on those.

For the first few days after exposure, nothing the WS says will make a lick of sense. It will get better day by day.

Eliminate lovebusting behaviour to the greatest extent possible, regardless of your own emotional state.

Have you been spying on the last 4 years of my life? That's exactly what I was doing right and wrong at the same time. And most likely the exact same EN's not being met. I know she told me felt unappreciated, unattractive, and unloved. There may have been a few more mentioned or probably even a few she didn't. Me with my head stuck in the clouds never took the comments for what they really were, and argued that I was doing things that should make her feel loved. Just needed to find this site before this S* went south. Too late for that now.

No, I know this guy, have met his wife and family, they are good people. His is def. not a OM.

She already thinks I had her followed last Saturday though, so that was good.

Just went to pick up DD from school and met with WW to go to farmers market to have lunch. All was pretty much normal, but sitting there eating with her, got me thinking bad thoughts, and she could tell, even though I wasn't doing or saying anything either my body language or energy made it obvious. Then she had the nerve to be mad at me for being mad/bothered about "that" which we both know it was about. (if that makes any sense.)

How could you be mad at me for being mad at you for doing what you did to me!?

Tips on accomplishing this? Without asking her directly, or doing Harley's questionaire, which I doubt highly that she would do right now.

I think he was just there to listen when she started telling him how "troubled" our marriage was. Started dropping compliments and such. Then, that "sparkley" feeling (from new relationships) happened and she wondered why she doesn't get the feeling from us any more. I immediately told her because that only happens in a new relationship, which you are in. This was 3-4 weeks ago on D-day.

Decipher me this: Maybe a week or two before D-day, she initiated another of the "this isn't working, I'm not happy, you don't love me" conversations. I got pissed and said fine, if you don't want to be with me anymore fine. A couple days passed and we decided to work it out. She wondered why I wasn't going to fight for us. I told her I was just angry or whatever. But what really stuck in my mind, was when she said "even if cheated on you (sexually) you'd still give me a chance wouldn't you?"! My reply was no. Even though inside, I wasn't sure.

But why would she even say that? Is that her way of feeling ok about doing it. testing the waters so to speak knowing I'd still give her a chance? Why would one's W ask that?

It sounds like IC and admiration were what OM was meeting?

Then those sound like 2 of her top 5.

Rule #1 in Wayward Handbook: When confronted with something that you did, don't accept any blame. Deflect and turn it on the accuser.

Normally, I'd ignore it. It's pointless to ponder such ramblings. But, when she persists, it's best to call her out on such things and close the conversation: "I'm sorry you're upset that others know about your adultery, but your trying to start an argument over it isn't going to work with me. We'll talk later."

She's wanting you to actually fight for what you want. To care. Apparently, you gave the impression that you didn't give a damn about what she did...

BUT

...it's best to stop the investigation right there because she's wayward and will do or say anything to put all of this squarely on your shoulders. It's her mission, really, to look for opportunities to blame this on you.

Answering "no" to the sex question was the correct response...even though it's a completely asinine question to begin with.

She talks to this male co worker because she has extremely poor boundaries around the opposite sex. In fact she and him may be developing an emotional relationship. I would be very wary around this man

Many wayward spouses will entertain and encourage the concept of an "open marriage". For example, Newt Gingrichs ex wife went on national television and said he wanted an open marriage so he could have affairs.
Closer to home, my former wife also would drop hints that I should get a girlfriend (I thought she was joking). Then she actually proposed an open marriage and suggested I find a sex partner for sexual fulfillment. (I refused)

There is a poster that encouraged his wife to become a swinger.

This is COMMON regular wayward babble. That's why I mentioned newt. It doesn't matter if a wayward is President Bill Clinton or your local mailman or your wife. They all seem to act the same.

I know this is a difficult time. I've been there.
I survived it through prayer and MB forum.
I encourage you to act like you're on camera. Like the wife is an actor. Play your role.

Oh one thing that helped a lot for me was keeping a journal. Write down your feelings and think about them. Remember you don't have control over the actions of others. You can only control how YOU respond to them. Take the high road

So, some developments:

Today, when she got home from work, she started getting ready to cook dinner. She had mentioned wanting to go outside to get some sun for a bit. So I told her I would do the dinner if she wanted to go outside. She asked "why are you being so nice?" I didn't know how to respond properly, so I don't think I said anything.

So I started cooking dinner, and a few minutes later, I gave her a hug, she said
"what are you doing, well besides giving me a hug?"
"I just needed a hug"
"I love you, and I still hold hope for our marriage"
"But why, don't you, I thought you hated me?"

I explained that we all do things we regret, and I still believe we can save our marriage. Eventually, I will find forgivenss. She replied with something about so much hurt, and me not being there for her for so long, not helping her with her depression. Neglect basically. Which does have truth to it.

"I don't love you like that any more, I'm not IN LOVE with you anymore" "It's just not there" "Obviously, if I did what I've done then I don't love you right?"
"So did you do that just to push me away?"
"No, well maybe a little" "Doing that would definitely be a divorce maker wouldn't it?"
"There's reasons you did what you did, we can fix our marriage and make it better than it ever has been, but it's going to take work on both our parts"
"I'm done with relationships, I don't want to work on anything, I don't want a relationship, I just want to be me." "I told you I already felt this way long before this happened [POSOM]
"So you just want to go out and do anything that moves?" "Well you're already in a relationship, you're in TWO relationships now"
"No I'm not"
"Having sex with someone is a relationship"
"No"
"Going out on a date to the (place they went last saturday) is a date, that's a relationship"
"No, its not."

"I've been hurting for so long, I just don't feel it any more, I don't love you like that."
Finally, I said "well, I don't want to talk about this anymore, except to say, I love you, I love our family and regardless of what you say, I still hold hope for our marriage."

I think there was more, but unfortunately, I didn't have my recorder on me. So I had to do all that by memory. I'm sure I forgot some.

I know the obvious answer is this is fogbabble, but what if it's true. What if there were so many years of her hoping for me to meet her EN's that the bridge is burned now. She's given up hope on our marriage, doesn't want to work on it, thinks we'll be able to co-parent our DD and she'll be JUST FINE so long as we can do things together and be in the same room in a friendly manner.

And to top off the day, the emails I sent to her HR bounced back, still haven't been able to get a hold of POSOM assumed Mom. Her sister obviously hasn't said anything to her or me, though she may be waiting to do it in person. AFAIK, her parents haven't said anything to her, though on the way home, she was listening to a rather long voicemail which is unusual for her, even since all this S* has been going on, but she didn't say anything or react to whatever it was she was listening to.

So I spent the rest of the night, trying to remain calm, no LB's. Just before I went downstairs for the night(as she was going to bed (couch)) she was talking about putting up the canopy in our DD's room, and what bed we were going to get for her. Stuff that wouldn't be done if we are D'ing or even separating.

She already has a handful of things she can't forgive me for, I feel that exposure may just be one more to the list, and put the last nail in the marriage coffin. Then again, maybe I've got nothing else to lose at this point. She clearly has a hard time forgiving me for a handful of things she's resentful for that have happened the past few years.

And this just minutes ago, since she was texting right next to me for a good part of the night.
You been talking to him this whole time?
"Who, XXX, idiot?!" (XXX being a long time friend, not a OM)
Just asking you a question, don't have to call me names.
"You just assume sht. And even if I was, who cares."

It's S* like that last sentence that makes me want to just say F it, this aint worth it, pack up, and disappear. If I didn't have a DD, that's what I'd be doing right now.

This sucks. Any help here much appreciated. Thank you all again for being there. The last time I went through all this (XWW), I had nobody. At least this time I've got all you people who have done this already. Just can't believe someone who I knew loved me immensely and unconditionally, can now be so evil to me on top of the GREAT news she delivered 2 days ago even.

Should I not be asking anything about the A or POSOM? Now, later, not at all?

SO what's to say, that when the WW is confronted with people who I've exposed to, that she won't just do what she did to me, and convince them that she just doesn't love me anymore. And that she's doing what makes her happy. Since the people exposed to are already on her side since they her friends, that they won't just say, oh well maybe you're right. You have to be happy.

This question was asked about 2 months ago, when trouble started rearing it's ugly head. As I said, she started in with another one of her "I'm unhappy" talks, "this is working" to which I was tired of hearing, feeling (incorrectly) like I was doing all I could do considering her incessant bitchiness.

Trust me, she knows that her unspeakable act deeply affected me and she clearly knows that I give a damn. Though, doing Plan A, makes me feel like she see's me as a pushover. "geez, I can screw someone else and he still loves me." "I can walk all over this guy" Just feel like it doesn't put me in the best light.

There is a time to talk about the affair. Now Is not the time.
Now you need to stop talking about it.
Stop listening to her.
Get the exposure letter to the employer

Some toxic friends and family will say that. Some will support adultery.
Others will not.
The reason for exposure is that affairs thrive in the dark. (think of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinski). When they are exposed and brought to light of day the fantasy of the affair quickly crumbles

Please just focus on following plan A.
Be polite ; no talking about the affair (she will bring it up on her own and when she does offer her a cookie. Affair talk withdrawals love bank

figured out why the emails bounce back. Receptionist who wrote down the HR email address made her "h" look like a "k".

Anyhow,

Should I add this line to the standard workplace exp. letter? Without it, the letter seems only to be a tattle-tale type of letter instead of a letter asking to help stop the affair.

I would not add the line. I would follow the template. It was developed by an atty and has been used numerous times.
You want the letter to stay focused on what affects the company - resources.
And it is tattle tale. Many company's have anonymous "tip lines" to report theft etc. there is nothing wrong with tattle tale

No, and we've all heard similar crap from WW's before.

The affair is the problem right now.

Get POS OM out of the way first.


"Well, I care, for starters and you're not going to be carrying on with this adultery right in front of me and [child's name]. You need to leave if you're going to be doing that!"

I'd really follow-up with her family re: exposure, telling them that she's texting all evening to her adultery partner right in front of you and the kids. Tell them that you both respect their opinions and really need your help in this, asking them to use their influence to get WW to stop the affair.

2little,

I'm glad you detailed the conversation you had with your wife last night. I hope I can help explain what's going on and some of the pitfalls you can avoid.

First of all, no more talk about the affair or your relationship (unless she is breaking no-contact and needs to be confronted). Deep relationship talk will only lead to the same circular discussion you had last night (i've fallen out of love, don't think it can be reclaimed, not interested in trying) and more blame shifting on you. Rewinding this same discussion over and over just leads to love bank withdrawals. If relationship talk comes up again, just repeat "I know we can build our marriage to stronger than ever," then change the topic. Don't try to convince her you have a plan, don't argue when she disagrees, and she will.

That being said, let me help sort out what she told you last night. First of all, don't be so quick to write everything off as "fog babble". What she said is 100% her perception of the situation and how she is feeling, so that perception is reality. She is deep within a state of withdrawal.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3600_state.html

Withdrawal comes from years of not meeting each other's emotional needs and can become quite entrenched, especially when magnified by the blame shifting that accompanies an affair. In withdrawal, one or both spouses are completely cut off emotionally, see no hope of regaining love, and are not motivated to even try. Basically, the love bank is shut tight and is not even accepting deposits.

This kind of withdrawal is very difficult to break free from. This is why divorce rate is over 50% in the U.S. My ex-wife was in the exact same state, my fiancee' was also leading up to her divorce. Recovery cannot begin until this wall of withdrawal is either slowly pried open, or busted down.

That's the beauty of MB's, it is one of the few programs that gives you the tools to breach this wall. Even though her love bank is closed, a sustained and consistent meeting of her emotional needs, avoiding lovebusters, and 15+ hours of undivided attention will slowly erode this wall and her love balance will begin to build.

Other situations need some dynamite to blow the wall down. This dynamite is plan B, where the spouse gets a stark look at life without you and forces them to make a conscious choice to commit to recovery.

Sometimes the wall is too entrenched and never comes down. Dr. Harley claims a high success rate WHEN HIS PROGRAM IS FOLLOWED, but it takes two to make it happen and the program is typically not followed when one spouse is deep in withdrawal.

But, you cannot talk her out of withdrawal with reason and promises or by rehashing your past history.

My suggestions are in blue...

Do not bring up the affair or the other OM. Talking about it is Love Bank withdrawals for both of you. It also puts OM on her mind. You don't want her thinking about him, do you?

Do not engage in angry outbursts.

Do not try to reason with anything she says or use logic. Instead, focus on saying things that will meet one of her emotional needs. Be attentive to her emotional state. Talk about something that interests her. I spent an hour talking about tattoos two nights ago.

Finish the exposure as soon as possible. Do not talk to her about exposure one tiny bit, even if her friends/family get angry with you. Do not show her the messages they send you. Do not complain to her about her family's reaction.

2little,

Have you had all your questions answered? If so then you need to stop asking.

Please listen to this fantastic show where Dr. H tells the BH to "stop talking about the affair". They are also going to move. Tell us what you think.
Radio clip
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Brain,

Are you thinking of rrr's thread where they are moving away?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2661269

2little still has an active affair on his hands.

So early on in this it is extraordinarily difficult not to bring up the A.

At 10mo's into R I finally got it. I have a very hard head.

What I want is all thoughts of the OM OUT of her mind. I want it to be a fading memory. I want that POS out of our lives in every way, shape and form.

What I get now is that every time I bring up the A�POS LIVES AGAIN. Not just to me but to her. How can that POS die? (the legal way that is).. By not ever bringing it up again.

Hard as hell. Yep. But weigh the consequences.

No the show was KGaa12 and his wife.

Oh ok, just some momentary confusion over here.

It happens!

Have you done exposure yet?

Thanks Brain, I listened, and it does shed some light on the matter. Though, they are in a much different situation than I am since my WW affair is in full swing, whereas the couple on the clips have already committed to NC and fixing their marriage. So, 1. I just found out this went PA 3 days ago. and 2. I'm sure somewhere I read that at some point there needs to be a talk, a one time talk, where I ask any and all questions regarding the A. Now is probably not that time to do that, so I must listen to the advice and not bring up the A right now.

Exposure was done, but emails bounced back from the HR dept, and two of the co-workers I reached out to I believe are only there in support by means of "thinking of you and hoping for the best" type of thing. I have to do more work and get the word out to some more people and talk to her Parents about them persuading her to stop this.

On the way to work the morn. my WW seemed down, and in thinking mode. Not sure why. I just tried to strike up some neutral conversation and that seemed to work. Last night, before the text "who care's "fight"" I had gone to the store to get her medication for her and this morning made her breakfast for work. I was surprised when she texted me "Thank you for getting my med's and making me breakfast". Don't know what it means, but I take it to mean she see's that even in light of what I know, I still show I care. Thoughts?

And Brain, I am 100% sure that I have not had all my questions answered yet. I thought that was why this board is here. Now if I am asking the same questions over and over again, I can only assume it is because I am either slipping into the doubt side of things and/or need reassurance. I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions, but as I'm sure you and we all know, it's a difficult time, and questions come up constantly. I appreciate everyone's help.

I'm reasonably sure that Brain meant "have you had all of your questions about the affair answered by your wife" and not stop asking us questions. Meaning that, once into recovery, you get all of the affair questions out and done with instead of repeatedly revisiting the subject and reopening the wound.

Obviously, you aren't quite there yet but I'd hazard a guess that your WW is more open to reconciliation than some others on here. She hasn't left and is, it seems, just open enough to receiving $LB deposits from you to the point that it's making her guilty/uncomfortable in doing so.

Keep up the Plan A and wrap up this exposure. The emails/letters went to HR, correct?

Yes that is what I meant. Once you're both committed to recovery.

Oh, yeah, that makes more sense. But no, we haven't got to that point yet. In the meantime, I'll stop all talk regarding OM and A, but I'm terrified of the next time she decides to "go out" as I will be sitting at home horrified that she is/will be having sex with him. It's like Indecent Proposal, only I'm not getting a million dollars, and she actually went through with it. Is it normal for a WW to continue to have sex once the BH knows that she's already done it, or do they feel too guilty to do it again? Don't know if I really want to hear the answer though.

This helps me be optimistic in this trouble time. THANK YOU! Oh, and yes, new emails went out this morning, letters going out today. Need to reach out to a few more people. As I said before our circle of friends and relatives is very small. And I've had ZERO luck finding anything on POSOM.

Also 2little is she still in contact with her OM? How is she doing this?

Workplace exposure successful:

Well, JUST received a text "Really? You want to screw with my job? I'm supporting your [censored]."

ugggh

suggested response?

"You probably spit in my b-fast too huh? You're a [censored]."

Just replied with "I'll do whatever it takes to save our marriage and family"

Not expecting a warm inviting response.

I'm sorry that you're upset that others know about your adultery, but I'm not going to let you drag me into an argument over it.

Then hang up, leave the room, whatever you need to do.

Good freaking job, by the way! I wonder what they said to her!

Just remember the first Wayward Rule--

When someone catches onto your schemes, make up some random bullsh*t (like spitting in breakfast) to deflect and make it all about them having the problem.

Make sure you have that voice recorder handy for when she comes home.

If she starts getting hysterical, ask her to leave so that she can calm down. Don't forget to call her parents and report her behavior at home, saying that you're worried about her and would appreciate them talking to her about ending this mess with OM.

He's a coworker.

response:

"like effing get me fired or ruin any chances of climbing up? This hurts any chance for promotion [censored]"

I want to reply with "you should have thought about that before getting into an affair with a co-worker, but that's probably not the right thing to say.

ohhh, it's going to be a LONG weekend.

I'd text her this and then turn your phone off:

I'm sorry that your adultery has hurt your chances for promotion and that you're upset that others know about your affair, but I'm not going to let you drag me into an argument over it. Got to go, talk to you later.

Do you have any family members that can come over for supper tonight?

"It is your adultery that may affect your job and career. Not the truth"

Remember, her anger you can deal with. It is the having a 3rd person in your M which you cannot.

Stay strong! Now is not the time to bend.

Not necessarily. You just act like you did nothing wrong, act pleasant and cheerful, do some Plan A type things, take the kid somewhere for a few hours this weekend, inviting WW to go as well. Just do "normal" type stuff.

When she acts up (your WW, I mean) just calmly tell her that you aren't going to argue with her about her adultery and disengage. Rinse and repeat.

You'll be fine. After a few dozen attempts to start a fight with you, she'll probably back down and just retreat to her side of the house.

You did very good!

Refuse to engage in a fight. Instead, continue plan A. If she tries to start something, change the topic. "I'm sorry this incident has had negative repurcussions for you at work. Would you like to go and get ice cream?"

When she is spewing venom..just remember SHE is the one that brought it on herself. You cannot (and should not) bear her pain and consequences of her adultery on your shoulders.

Step 1 in killing the affair = complete. Check.

Do not let her bully you one bit.

Like NW says...just be Mr. Cool. The reality of her actions are now really hitting her.

Should I reply to this? Or just leave it alone until tonight?

I like this, but worry it will just create more anger

Yes. Reply with

I'm sorry that your adultery has hurt your chances for promotion and that you're upset that others know about your affair, but I'm not going to let you drag me into an argument over it. Got to go, talk to you later.

and then turn your phone off if you cannot help responding.

Your not immediately responding and getting into it with her will do two things...

1. Help you avoid getting into a fight ($LB withdrawals)
2. Show her that you aren't going to play her games. She's looking for a fight, looking for you to do something, anything, to justify her cheating on you. Don't give it to her.

Everyone is different. I didn't apologize at all for exposure. Why should he?

I think he needs to show some backbone and just stand tall by his decision to expose by NOT apologizing for anything.

what are the chances of someone who has had depression (untreated) for many years, this exposure driving them over the edge and doing something horrible to themselves.

SHE betrayed YOU my man.

Why do you give 2 sh*ts if she is mad right now. Look what she has done!! She is just now feeling the sting of HER decisions.

DO NOT I repeat DO NOT get dragged into her drama. NO reaction to her negativity. Just be positive.

Just be as nice as humanly possible on all fronts. Give her NO ammo to shoot at you with.

That's not apologizing for anything, in my book. It's telling her that it's her adultery that got her into this, that he knows that she's trying to start a fight about it, and that he's not playing that game.

I sure as hell didn't apologize either!

Change the "I'm sorry" to "It's unfortunate" and go from there.

That's a distraction, 2little. Depression didn't cause her to cheat on you. Piss poor boundaries with other men did.

If she starts going off the deep end at home, call the police and inform them of the situation.

Did you decide to make her have an A?

Did you force her into making these decisions?

Have you forced her to do ANYTHING?

No. You cannot force her to do one single thing. What she does from here on out is her decison. Just like everything else leading up to this moment.

You cannot hold her pain on your shoulders. You cannot hold her hand through this. Time for her to put on her big girl panties and face the music.

I say WAY TO GO! Great job.

I know we are on the same page.

It is interesting that some BS's especially men lose all their strength at this time of exposure. They think they should apologize to the WS�s for telling the truth. F- that.

Hopefully we are giving this guy a shot of adrenaline he needs right now to hold his head up high and be STRONG.

2L,

I got the same advice, and it worked like a charm. W went batxxx at exposure...a Thursday or Friday, I think.

Anyhow, stated canned response NW and others are suggesting...thought the weekend was going to be a nuclear war.

NOPE.

Took the kids to dinner friday night, invited W to go with....she did. (Incredibly, now that I remember it, she said NO at first. had already left driveway, leaving development, and she called me to come back and get her).

Saturday, when to services in the AM...W went too. that night was a little chilly...W stayed on 'her side of the house'.

Sunday, took son to bball game...W went with. She had a looong talk with DD, alone. We took walk, went out for a bite that nite.

Seems like Monday the at least the beginning of the beginning, sorta.

Doing this does a few things:

1. shows you will fight for the marriage and family
2. shows you will not get into the drama, and can handle the situation with care and calm
3. allows the weight of the "relationship" going public, the consequences, to fall on HER

You are doing great!

Yeah, I'm hoping that he stands strong this weekend.

My FWW never quite went completely nuts at exposure, but I think the key is remaining calm and pretending like you're doing just fine...even if you're pissed purple on the inside.

...and to NW's point (I think it was Melody or marital that really helped me with this one)--

after a few times of my W 'threatening' to hurt herself, etc. becasue of exposure, i calmly stated -- "the next time you threaten any bodily harm to yourself, I will call 911."

It stopped.

The more mad she is=exposure was a bullseye.

Stay strong and listen to these fantastic posters.

Amen, NW...exactly (although easier said than done...but it can be done!!!)

This is very true.

I'd be more worried if she hadn't reacted at all.

Just stay strong, let her go pout in her corner and YOU go on with life as if everything was normal. Come here and pound the keys and cuss and scream if you have to, just don't do it in front of your WW.

Website traffic gets a little slow here on the weekends, but I'm sure we'll all drop by from time to time to see how you're doing.

Patience and restraint are extraordinarily difficult. 2 traits I don�t inherently have. They were very much learned traits for me during this and vital to survival. Still work on them every day.

Don�t know about your FWW, but is seems like exposure not only kills the A but after a little while it is a component of them hitting rock bottom which at least for my story was a critical step to hit...the pit was the beginning of her rebirth.

Absolutely...

Again, the vets were right on -- the reaction to exposure seems to be in direct proportion to the damage done to the affair.

When my W went batxxxx, I remember being almost giddy (nervously) and thinking "damn, this xxxx is going DOWN!"

And I think NW is on target: there is almost a tangible feeling after an A is exposed, that THIS marks the beginning of the end of the affair.

For me, it was just a moment where I was sick and damned tired of being s & d tired. At, what, 33 or 34, I was too freaking old to be fooling with that kind of childish behavior from another adult and think that she finally got it. That this wasn't going to happen or, if it did, that I sure as hell wasn't going along for the ride any longer.

It's akin to when your children are misbehaving and you just have had enough and tell them to STOP IT...and they do, because they know you're serious this time around.

Funny how these exposures always seems to go down on Fridays.

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. I don't know what else to say.

I do tend to avoid conflict, so I'm sure that's why I worry this will be hard for me, but you all are giving me great advice. I just need to be able to remember it all when the time comes.

I have to say, I'm a bit surprised her text's have not been nastier.

Dad, thank you for your post above, I'm happy to hear how your weekend after exposure went. I hope mine can go similarly.

I have not replied any more yet, than "I'll do whatever it takes...."

but her last text read: "by screwing with my work and making it so I cant get promoted? Thats logical"

Funny, well not really, sad actually, that she's more concerned about promotions than she was the well being of her H and DD.

2L2L,

what are the chances of someone who has had depression (untreated) for many years, this exposure driving them over the edge and doing something horrible to themselves.

Lower than the chances it would happen if she destroys her family, moves in with OM and ends up with OM cheating on her.

Ask her how could she do this to her children, and how could she associate with an OM who would do this to her children.

God Bless
Gamma

Ok. The last thing I want to happen from me exposing this is to have her hurt or worse herself. I see what you are saying about the alternative though.

Her basis (regarding our DD) is she (WW) would rather be D than miserable the rest of WW life for her (DD). This, I assume, is her detached, hopeless emotions speaking and not wanting to work to make things better instead.

Nope

I heard the exact same thing and guarantee that others have, too. It's textbook and, outside of an affair, may be actually worth considering. But she's having an affair which, generally, means that she'll say nothing positive about your relationship.

Please try not to get bogged down analyzing what she says. The OM is the first problem here that must be taken care of now. After that, y'all can work on all of the things that got you here to begin with.

One thing at a time. Don't go borrowing troubles.

I really think you need to respond to this with something dismissing this as a natural consequence of her behavior. It's not a "I'm going to get the last word in" but YOU standing up for yourself here and refusing to play this game with her. It tells her that you know that the blame for all of this lies on her shoulders and that you aren't going to take that burden for her.

Or tell her in person. Either way, she needs to be informed of your line of thinking.

Then you go about your evening as you normally would.

Done, used "unfortunate" and ended with, let me know what time to pick you up.

Well, S*, I should probably get to figuring out the next steps for either direction this could go (does or doesn't end A).

If she wants end A and R, I need to have a plan. I know it's here, I've got Doc Harley's SAA here, but stopped reading when it got to the point of R.

I'll need to read up on that. More suggested reading on establishing a plan for either direction this thing goes? Been spending all my time reading on dealing with whatever current situation is. There's so much good info and things to read it's hard to get it all.

WOW, her response was only what time to pick up. Hmm

Here, read this:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583#Post2566583

Go down toward the end of the first page where MelodyLane has a post called "The Aftermath".

Start there.

Her non-response to your shutdown text is good. Anticipate that she'll regroup and go for round two, however, but just stay above and out of her drama and you'll do fine

Here's her post...

When she says "So if I don't do that, then what?"

You say "If you continue with your adultery, then this will end in divorce." Get up and walk away at that point.

Does it ever happen, where the WW gets such a slap of reality, and maybe her coworkers talked to her about A and told her "that is a man who loves you" (for doing the exposure and the will to save marriage), that the WW is ready to R and the fury of exposure was dismissed as knowing it was what she needed to happen?

I get the feeling that maybe she needed to see this kind of action from me to prove to her my love. She did tell me a week-week1/2 ago that she "never expected me to try".

A BH who does a big exposure does show by his actions how much he loves his WW and wants to save his marriage. It's the enabling BH that the WW has no respect for.

Good Job 2little.

ok, maybe a dumb ? here, but the night she told me the EA turned PA "recently", I took my ring off. She hasn't been wearing hers since our one and only MC. I've been wearing mine because that's how I want it to be. Anyway, even in the face of things that have come to light recently, and following Plan A, would not wearing your ring be a LB? I think so, thought I'd ask you pros

Do some of them (WW) see it that way, for what it is?

I think wayward husbands are somewhat easier when it comes to stopping affairs and coming back hat in hand.

My FWW was the opposite, and I'm sure many WWs are. She was pissed for about a week over having others telling her what to do and being treated like a child (her words). That her fantasy was destroyed really hacked her off

It takes time, but I think you can be optimistic if she'll end the affair.

The job would have to go immediately, sorry to say. And, yes, we've heard all of the financial reasons why such a thing cannot happen but it's just a fact of life. Mine quit that very day without notice.

Ask helpfordad about a WW staying at the job where the affair took place. It never works.

I'd wear it as it would seem to be a mixed message otherwise.

Trust me, your not wearing a ring is not going to be a lovebuster. She isn't invested in your relationship enough to care about it.

Your Plan A is going to turn that around, though.

From what I've read of other former WWs that post here, I'd agree with Brain's statement.

EDIT: Of course, right now, that's not what she's thinking. But I've read where recovered waywards voice that sentiment. It's all in hindsight, like nearly everything else.

Well, that might be an a tough one. Yeah, all the normal reasons here maybe, but they are true. She just got this job a little over a year ago, in that year she already learned her job enough to be able to train other newbies, which is unheard of in this field and office. And we all know how the (US at least) economy is. Took her a long time to get this job, and it works out because it's only 5 mile from home vs. the 35 before. Now yes, I've read a bit about the reasons NOT to continue working there, just saying, this will be a tough one to get figured out.

When they are foggy they don't see it, but when they come out of the fog and start to show true repentance then yes WW will see it as loving and trying to save your M.

2L2L,

Then get OM fired rather than having your WW quit.

Turn up the heat on OM.

God Bless
Gamma

It sucks and I've been there as well.

Not much else can be said, but that's one of the consequences.

Poop always flows downhill, you know.

?

End A?

Yeah.

How is this going to end if she refuses to end the affair?

2L2L,

Anyway, even in the face of things that have come to light recently, and following Plan A, would not wearing your ring be a LB?

Nope you never broke your vow and you have no reason to take your emblem of fidelity off your finger. Take it off only after the divorce is final should it come to that.

Taking your ring off because your WW did is sorta like having an affair because your WW did, lowers you to her level.

God Bless
Gamma

Plan A - Plan B I expect. Don't know how long I can Plan A it though knowing she is doing what she shouldn't be doing. I honestly don't see 6 months. I think I'd be doing good to get a month or two out of Plan A. I don't know, hopefully, it won't come to that, but of course there's that possibility.

Good point Gamma. Guess I was looking at it from the viewpoint of she betrayed our marriage and thus the ring. I never wanted to take it off, just felt weird wearing it after I know she did the unspeakable. I've put it back on now. Going to get hers cleaned at the jewelers so when it's time to put it back on it will be nice, clean and shiny.

2l, I would tell her today that she will not be able to keep that job if she intends on staying married. Start planting the seed that she will have to quit so she needs to start Loki g elsewhere NOW. I would also advise you to start looking for a job.

Oh, yeah, the vets helped me with this one...

The OM was fired within an hour? of his union hall, general contractor, and the hospital getting my exposure letters.

Then, he proceeded to throw my W under the bus and LB her like mad...

That hit home -- so much so that OMs mommy called me, trashed my W, threatened to get HER fired, and demand an apology from me and I call OMs boss to get him his job back.

THAT, I believe, was not only a shot across the bow that I was coming out swinging..but, looking back, I think it really did kill the affair that day. Shedding the light of day on the sordidness -- if it doesn't end immediately, it truly is the beginning of the end.

I regret that I putzed around for almost 3 months....WTF was I thinking?...stubborn, scared fool...

AND 2L2L, to this day, without discussing the affair itself, my W out nof the blue, in a card ot text, still THANKS ME for "fighting for our family and SAVING ME" (her words).

Oh, and to further what Mel is saying...

Just so you know -- things got MUCH better after OM was off the job..

BUT -- W herself quit a few months later as the workplace where the A occurred is simply too much of a trigger.

We currently are feeling the financial effects of this whole thing...it aint pretty, but our family is intact...priceless.

2l, the ring that is on your finger is YOUR public announcement of YOUR commitment to your wife. When that ring went on your finger, there was probably a vow that went with it, yes? "For better or for worse"? Well, this is the worse. If you're still committed, keep that ring on your finger.

I wore my ring until about 6 weeks before final divorce.
At that point ww had left our family and was living with OM.
I felt that she broke our marriage contract and I wasn't really interested in reconciliation at that point anyway. I was angry, sad and disgusted with her.

I replaced my wedding ring with a fraternity ring on my right hand.
Now I don't wear any rings.

But there is no question. In plan A or B you wear your ring. Until divorce. It is a statement and I assure you that she notices it daily

I too think it's important to start looking for a job. You need to prepare because she will have to leave her job if you want to make a go of this and if she won't, you'll be getting a divorce and need a job!

Your child is old enough to go to daycare now. She's not an infant. I understand wanting to have one spouse home and my husband and I did have him stay home for a short time when our two kids were super small.

Even though we agreed on it, it wore at me. I felt very alone as the sole provider. The stress was intense and this could be a factor in the deterioration of your marriage.

Show her that you are in the game with her, creating financial stability for your family.

Also, it will even out the parenting energy. Your WW will have to get more involved in taking care of her child and her home. Then she might look back and understand just how much you contributed to making her life more functional.

This is not the reason to do it but it might be an added benefit.

Well, I don't know how effective the workplace exposure went. She claims her two supervisors don't care and the HR person isn't going to do anything either.

She waited until we got home to start spouting off. It started by her saying "you guys have dinner, I'm going to get a drink". She asked am I really surprised she doesn't want to see me? What was I thinking, what did I think was going to happen, blah blah blah.

She claims I don't care about her one bit if I went after her at work. She feels I've attacked her in her workplace. I just didn't get into it with her as instructed. I think the only thing I said is I had no idea how she would feel.

So who knows, maybe she's pissed enough to get drinks with this POSOM and go have sex with him, I dunno. Claims she'll be back by 10pm. Was trying to get me and DD to go do something tomorrow by ourselves. I don't think she's at all compelled to give the OM the boot. At least they've both got something to talk about now I guess.

Meanwhile, DD has to watch mommy go out yet again. Nice :rolleyes:

What your wife says is irrelevent, though. You need to speak to them personally.


And she got to watch her dad do NOTHING. What did you do to prevent this?

2l2l,

You need to go over the heads of the supervisors and the HR department, I don't know if this is a privately held or publicaly held company. If privately held go directly to the owners and ask why they are exposing their company to a large liability by allowing sexual entanglements in the workplace. If public go as far up the food chain as you can, plant manager, branch manager etc. Start exposing to their customers if that doesn't work.

Oh if your WW is at the bar with OM bring your DD to go see her, and introduce DD to her boyfriend.

God Bless
Gamma

Honestly, I am in shock about your complacent attitude. If my H tried to go out to meet some woman, the keys would be gone. The sheriff would have to come to my house to save his life. And your wife just saunters out the door without a word from you?

How do you expect her to take you seriously if you are not serious?

I'm not.

2L2L,

BTW, exposure sometimes takes effect when the anger wears off and the WW realizes that her ugly doings are out in the open and no longer secret or exciting.

Almost everyone has some concern for their good name, and even more so when the paranoia creeps in and they start to wonder who knows and who doesn't. It's no longer the affair partners who are keeping a secret from the world, but everyone in world who now keeps a secret about what they heard about the affairees, the onus has shifted.

Remind her that if her legs didn't spread neither would scandal.

God Bless
Gamma

You all were telling me not to get into her argument, not to be fighting. Yeah I could take the keys away, but if she really wanted to go, she was going to go.

I don't know what I'm doing, I don't do this all the time. Did I want her to go? No, of course not. Am I suppose to force her to stay home? That doesn't seem very Plan A.

I can't watch her at all times, and force her to be where I want her to be. She was pissed, was going to the store and get a drink. I don't know who she's with.

It's hard to be clear minded these days. I had minimal time to come up with a game plan and figured better to let the angry wasp go than try to hold it in my hands.

Can't see where forcing her to stay home pissed falls into this strategy, which is what I did.

Are you kidding me? You sit there like a lump on a log and say nothing while she goes out the door to go screw some guy?

THAT IS NOT PLAN A!! Plan A does not say anywhere you sit there like a moron while she ABUSES YOU!

I don't view her as the problem here. The problem is your shocking complacence. How would she be able go out to screw the OM if you tried to stop her?

Do you know that women don't respect men they can run over like this? Our love is very contingent upon the respect we feel. There is no way she feels any respect after this.

We can help you do everything to save your marriage, but we shouldnt have to tell you to do things like OBJECT when she is going out to screw some guy! We shouldn't have to tell you that it is crazy to sit there like a lump when she takes YOUR FAMILY CAR TO GO SHAG SOME GUY!!

I am sure you are joking here.

She said she was going to the store and to get a drink. Never said nothing about going to screw anyone. Could she be? Maybe. Again, I cant throw her in a cell to keep her from going anywhere.

Besides, if she's committed to go do that again, she'll figure out a way to do it. Isn't that WW's do?

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

If I were you, I would make some "plans" to get away tomorrow by yourself and let her be the mother for a change. First thing in the morning. Don't announce beforehand, just go. Dump it in her lap. She is a mother, right? She left tonight alone, so you leave tomorrow alone.

Dude, why are you laying down like this?

Man up.

About what? What's the punchline? I followed the advice of NW who has several thousand posts. Figured it was good advice.

Taking the keys away would only cause a fight (told not to get into) and made her leave anyway.

The goal here is to save your marriage, NOT to avoid your wayward wife's anger at all costs. Why in the world would you GIVE A RATSASS IF SHE WAS PISSED???

The goal is not to avoid her anger, after all!!

I did that. She didn't care. Remember right now a D is what she wants.

No, taking the keys away would not cause a fight. It takes TWO people to fight. You didn't have to fight. You could have got off your dead [censored] and taken the keys and told her how upset you are that she wants to go screw some man.

You have confused Plan A with Plan [censored] KISSING.

No, you did nothing tonight. Nothing.

The admonition against arguing and fighting HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STANDING UP AGAINST THE AFFAIR. No one ever told you to just sit there and say and do nothing. All you are doing is giving her the impression that you don't care very much. And I would agree with her!!

What kind of a man just sits there and does and says nothing while his wife goes out to get laid? WHO puts up with that???

Why then have I been reading all over the place stories of A that continue on sometimes for years, and are sexually active? What is it they are all doing wrong then?

Not saying I want her to have sex with POS again, but if she's in the mindset to do it, obviously, she's going to.

And again, for all I know, she really is just going shopping and getting a drink to feel better about what happened today.

Look, not saying I did everything right. Just made the wrong choice. It's F'd I guess.

What happened to not mentioning the A or the OM? Am I supposed to tell her no, you can't go shopping and get a drink, oh just because.

I've already demanded the A end, she obviosly didn't care. Threatening someone with something they already want doesn't make much sense, especially when this demand was dismissed a few days ago. You can only tell a child he's gonna get a spankin (example) so many times before they figure out you don't mean it.

I'm not trying to say you all are wrong, but I'm making on the fly decisions here based on what I've been told. I understand we can't have a recommended response all cued up for every single situation, so I did what I thought was right. Next time I'll do it ML's way.

I think tomorrow, I will disappear for a good part of the day. Something I've been wanting to go do for a while. She'll probably play the DD misses you, I thought you were going to do something with her card.

Sometimes I wish we could sit down for coffee and talk about these things.
Life throws us curve balls and how we swing is what determines if we win or lose.
Marriage and family trumps a job. That's the truth.
If it worries you to death then maybe you should take a lesson from AlAnon and surrender your fears to God.

The job is a non issue at this point. Nothing has come of the workplace exposure, nobody else seems compelled to persuade. Parents and sister are supposed to be over Sunday, maybe they will talk then. Going to suggest to them that happen.

Right now, WW is in furious mode over me exposing her at work. Made her go out to drink. Which I should've stopped from happening more than I did.

SO right now, worrying about the job seems a bit premature.
When I picked her up, she was just as normal as can be, soon as we got home she turned it on. Wasn't real terrible, but she was clearly pissed that I emailed her work about it.

You might want to make a call to the police dept - not 911 - let them know your wife has had a rough day and was looking to drink and you're worried about her driving...

If she gets pulled over, they give her a breath test - she's clean, perfect. If not - then you take care of the second problem in your marriage.

That is complete bullsh**. But if you want to be someone whose wife goes out every night and shags her OM and you sit there and twaddle your thumbs you just be my guest.


For all you know she and the OM are reading scripture together tonight. Key term being "for all you know." The fact that you don't know indicates your level of seriousness in all this.

How about acting like you give a damn? How about causing as much trouble as possible in her affair? How about not allowing her to take your car while she goes catting around like an alley cat in heat? Let her walk to her trysts.

BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE DO SOMETHING!

They are doing exactly what YOU are doing: NOT A DAMN THING.

But if that is what you aspire to be: in a marriage with an affair that continues for YEARS, just continue to do what you are doing: NOT A DAMN THING.

But if you follow Marriage Builders, you will either be in a recovered marriage or separated and preparing for divorce in under 6 months. MARRIAGE BUILDERS DOES NOT RECOMMEND STAYING IN SUCH A MARRIAGE "FOR YEARS." It recommends 3-4 weeks for women and up to 6 months for men.

Marriage Builders plan: a) cause holy hell in her affair in any way you can, b) demonstrate your willingness to meet her needs in the future if she ends her affair c) make plans to separate if she won't end her affair

Thought I wasn't supposed to act on emotions. Disrespectful Judgements?

So then, any time she wants to leave the house without me, I'm to take the keys to the car which is in her name if that makes any difference when/if the cops were called for me holding keys.

Exposure at work is so so because you half burrowed it, half butt it, etc, censor won't let us type half a@@ed it. I hope you got the point.

You now need to expose the affair over WW supervisors and HR head. You ned to expose the CEO, Board of Directors, Owner.

Who told you HR does not care, WW?

Remember you can't believe half of what comes out of WW's mouth.

Also OM can be WW supervisor, supeervisors friend, or HR's friend, or both.

Yes, that's why I said she "claims" they don't care. I think they might since she seems to be so angry about it and worried about not getting promoted.


He is none of those. He works on a different floor. I know who her supervisor are and on up. He's in a completely different department and 3 floors away. HR is in an entirely different building a few blocks away.

You took this to mean you DO NOTHING?

I must be out of mind to spend my time with this. I have already saved my marriage and I don't need the headache of trying to post to someone who aspires to be like other posters whose WS' are in "years long active affairs."

Think I will stop doing this and go have some ice cream and watch TV! so long!

No. I disagree. I say stay with the kid.
I couldn't stop my wife from leaving. One time I did. It resulted in love busters.
In the end it helped me a LOT in the custody battle.
The court specifically cited my wife leaving the home and kids as a reason for granting me full temporary custody.
Consider this ; I wouldn't leave my kid alone with a wayward. They will just be on the phone with their affair partner all day and neglect the kid.

Be an outstanding father. Your kids life in in turmoil Anyway. Try to make it better.

I see why melody is getting frustrated with you.

You are shown why you have to go to the next level and do a complete work exposure.

Your response should be I'm on that ASAP.

Why don't I see that from you?

The odds are she is with the POSOM.
They are probably having sex and think its the best thing in the world.
But please try to stay focused on what you are doing.
You are home with a young girl. Taking care of her. Hopefully reassuring her that you love her.
You can't control the actions of others. You can only control your own actions.

Some people react to affairs by drinking heavily, cursing at their spouse, or having an affair of their own. So far you have taken the correct steps and you just need to stay the course.

As for exposure, send the email to a vice president. You don't want to send it to the president or CEO. They get too much email. Find a vice president of communications or development and send to him. They get fewer emails and are usually more attentive to the ones they receive.
Any pressure on the affair is good.

Does OM sleep good? Pay people in India and china to give Him wake up calls at 3 am. They will do it for a week for $5.

Maybe, but one, I should be able to go do something by myself once in a while. Not that I ever do, but...two, I'm quite certain she is planning to go out with her OM tomorrow as she was pushing to get me and DD to go do something tomorrow, w/o WW. I have a feeling she wants to go to the Fair w/him as it is on now. Don't need a place we've gone to every year of our relationship becoming a trigger.

I don't know, maybe you veterans forget how scatterbrained this time can be. I only just found out my wife was F'n around on me 3 days ago now. I've spending all that time since working on exposure,reading, investigating, reading,caring for a child and doing all the other things I normally do. I've been reading so much and lots of people have different opinions, I made a mistake. So should I just say, well I'm a POS and she deserves better for it? No, I f'd up, I get it. I'm just trying to do the right things, and not do the wrong things in all this. Sometimes, I'm gonna call the wrong play. I'll try harder.

Besides, I know her, if I hid the keys and told her to take a cab, she'd be on the phone right away, just to defy.

I listened to the recording of my confrontation a few days ago, and noticed she said "Love" was is worse than sex. So, basically, she's saying she "Loves" him, a guy she's known for oh, about a month and half. F'n crazy.

I think you're doing a good job.
Remember to take Care of yourself ; eat and sleep well
And take care of your kid, show your child love because most ww are selfish pigs that place their happiness above everything else including their own children

I would document when she leaves the house to see OM or when she leaves for the bar ; keep the documentation hidden

Yes, been doing that for a while now. Been keeping a pw'd journal. And thanks, for saying I'm doing a good job. Today, when she was first angry, then surprisingly calm after the exposure thing, I thought I had her right where I wanted her. Even on the way home, she was completely normal. Until we got in the house, then it was round 2. Really took me by surprise. She started asking all the typical questions and trying to fight, I just ignored it.

Is your wife an alcoholic?

Well, she wasn't. In the twelve years we were together, I saw her drink only a few times (and only like one drink, never drunk), and that was when we first got together and were partyin' some. Only recently, the last 4 months or so, when she started going to her work's "Happy Hours" that they all go to this one particular close-by bar did she start drinking more. And now, when she's stressed out, or had a hard day at work, she says "I need a drink". So yeah, I see a problem developing. Says it makes her feel happier and helps her sleep.

Of course you can't tell her that.

I know how she is, and her Dad said the same thing a few weeks back, you can't tell her anything, she is never wrong. I feel like even with a HUGE exposure, it will not change her mind. She's got her mind set on this A and I don't know what will change that.

Oh I forgot to add that right after I took on the role of sole provider, I started up an EA. I felt entitled to it because I was working so hard and feeling all alone in the stress.

I'm not saying that those factors led me to my EA. I had poor boundaries and suffered from entitlement and a feeling that I deserved some happiness/passion/whatever.

All I'm saying is, the imbalance weakened my marriage. And then my lack of boundaries put us in an even more dangerous situation.

Food for thought...

Wow, guy. I meant don't engage her when she acts like a pouting child, not staying silent when she says she's going out for the night with OM!

Report this evening's booze binge with OM to her parents and family. Hell, I'd call them all right now, at nearly 1 am, asking them if they knew where their daughter was. Ask them to call her.

Tomorrow, you'll need to have a conversation with this woman and tell her just what it's going to take for you to stay married to her. This kind of bs isn't acceptable and isn't going to be happening again. Be prepared to follow through, though, telling her to pack her sh*t and get out. I would go so far as to preface that discussion with a call to her family, telling them that you're sending her to live with them if she refuses to stop the adultery.

Oh, and it's apparent by her reaction that her superiors at work actually did care about your email(s).

So when she says she needs to run to the grocery store, do I hide the keys? She didn't say she was going to see OM. Is she, yeah probably. Even if I had hid the keys, she'd still find a way to go do whatever it is she was going to do. Just would've been LB'ing behavior on my part which pushes them toward the OM, feeling justified in their actions. Whatever, I'm tired of hearing about it. Yeah I F'd up I guess. Next time I'll take the keys, and let you all know how that goes.



Already done that. Threatened suing for adultery, subpoena the OM, phone records, emails and me going for full custody. WW doesn't care. She wants D. She's so lost in this, she's giving up on me and her DD. Spent a whole 15 minutes with DD today, and that's only because we were driving home.

She's the one who makes the money to pay for this place and all the utilities. How can I kick her out, get my DD in daycare and start going to work when I have no car?



Not much good that will do, they live next door.

That's what I'm hoping. Was thinking about calling the HR lady on Monday to find out what is what.

Is there any benefit to knowing if she is over at OM's house right now? Other than just possibly confirming what I already suspect? She's already admitted to all this S*, so do I really need to know that type of info still?

Reason I ask is I have a friend who lives fairly close, I may be able to call him to drive by and see if our car is there. But if it serves no other purpose than to cause me more pain, I'll pass.

Beginning to think only Plan B may have any effect. That or wait it out until the A dies naturally. But I don't know I can go on, knowing everytime she's not home, she's with that POS. Effin F!

He needs to broaden his exposure and you're telling him to narrow it. Exposing to the CEO has been recommended here for years.

However it won't hurt to include VP's.

Well he an send it to the CEO.
I'm simply explaining that typically a CEO and president receives much more communication than the VP.
And the VP oftentimes will actually read their own emails.

Well you know it's an active affair so I wouldn't worry about it. After she promises to end it and have no contact then you would certainly want to be checking on it

The one size fits all approach to fixing broken marriages doesn't always work.

The exposure at her work was the last straw. Her years of deeply entrenched emotional detachment combined with exposing her at work was just enough to convince her there is nothing left between us.

This affair is really just a result of years of poor husbandry on my part.

You may not have been the perfect husband and you are 50% responsible for the demise of the marriage. BUT she's 100% responsible for her affair.


Did she come home last night? Remember she's a foggy wayward.

Because WW is now on the rampage is only an act by her to make you to fearful to expose any further. This is proof that exposure works.

"The one size fits all approach to fixing broken marriages doesn't always work."

Male Bovine Excrement

Stop your crap right now. There is nothing special about your WW affair. Her behavoir is 100% text book. There is nothing unique about your WW affair, or her actions post dday.

Man up and escalate that exposure at work.

So your WW is mad at you now.

Are you afraid to get your WW madder?

What is she going to do?

Bang the OM.

Oh wait, isn't she doing that now?

If you want to stop her from doing the OM the get to doing a full exposure.

It actually does work. The reason why is because people are people.
Heart surgery, psychiatric, pharmaceuticals .....they are all the same science because people are people.
Your wife is not much different than the others.
Have you read Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley?

The truth is exposure just shines light on an affair.

2L, 2L,

I thought the same thing -- and foolishly argued with the vets about it.

I'll tell you from expereince now, NOTHING will work, NOTHING -- as effectively to end an affair as EXPOSURE.


It may seem scary...may seem counterintuitive...may even seem vengeful to some, ridiculously.

Hogwash -- what is is standing up for your marriage, being THE MAN and FIGHTING for your wife, and yes, SAVING HER from the downward spiral her life will become if you don't step in and be her HERO.

At first, I could by into all the MB stuff...but dragged my feet with exposure.

What an idiot! That was the FIRST thing I shouldve done. We're in recovery now, but I hesitated for 3 months!!!

Please listen to the vets as I did -- expose, and this affair, this fantasy, will crumble.

When we chose not to expose destructive behaviors like affairs, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, child abuse etc we actually enable the activity

First..her losing her love for you is a result of poor husbandry. Not her A. You have to realize this. There is a difference.

I too have many regrets for the behaviors in my M that drained my LB balance with my W. That is why it is critical for us BS's to learn from our mistakes and take this opportunity to make positive changes for ourselves. Real Changes.

That is why I encouraged you to focus on yourself right now. You can only control you. Not her.

Your statement above is confirmation that indeed it did take many years for her love for you to slowly die.

You certainly don't expect that to be revived in a matter of days do you? It will take TIME for this ship to go into calmer waters. That is exactly why MB is such an amazing too. It gives you a plan.

Do you have SAA yet? This is a must. GET IT TODAY! Please do yourself a favor and get it. It will open your eyes. If you don't understand the entire plan you are just seeing snipits and are doubting yourself on exposure.

Get the book and it will help you see the entire picture and how each piece fits into the puzzle. Seeing how A's start, end and move to R is critical and it will give you hope.


As you know both of you are overcome by emotions right now. MB will at least give YOU a plan of action while your mind is trying to adjust to this new reality.

After dday, my FWW thought there was no way she would ever fall back in love with me. I almost guarantee your W feels the same way right now and she has no hope for your future. If you are committed to your M you MUST do the right things to first; kill the affair, then she will go through a withdraw phase and then and only then will you be able to start to attempt to rebuild your M.

I too thought I had �special circumstances� surrounding my W�s A. Guess what. I didn�t and neither do you. Trust me on this one.

Just take one step at a time. Use MB and see how it goes. No guarantees. What WAS a guarantee is that your M has NO I mean zero chance of survival with an active A.

And exposure was exactly the right thing to do my man. No doubt about that. Period.

I don't know if she thinks she is in love with this OM.

If she is..it will take time for that reality to die BEFORE she can fall back in love with you. Rairly can a W be in love with 2 men at the same time.

Right now she has no hope. She doesn't think there is any possible way she can fall back in love with you. Exactly what my FWW thought.


This was a harsh reality for me to digest but we have to live in reality with the situation.

Guess what happened? She did indeed fall back in love with me. You can do this too but you must be strong and follow the plan.

What are your other options? Just lay down and roll over?

Marathon not a sprint. Marathon not a sprint.

20 years its great to hear that as my WW is in exactly the same place in that she doesnt love me etc and doesnt think she can fall in love with me again, but i am staying positive and keeping up the plan a work and giving things time.

Right on, 20 Year...

My FWW said/felt the same thing -- she thought the love was dead before, now AFTER her affair??? She never thought it possible.

And -- mixed in feelings for the OM!

You are right -- MB is a plan that works. Rome wasn't built in a day, the marriage didn't crumble in a day...and it will take awhile to right it.

BUT -- your W will eventually realize what love TRULY is, means...and her 'feelings' for the OM, well....the only thing she'll feel worse about is herself regarding what she did to you and your marriage.

Keep at it!

How'd the weekend go?

So, Friday was the day she was talked to at her work. Also the day she "went to the store" and out for a drink. Saturday, early morning, I took the car and went North for about an hour or so. Once she woke up and found me gone, she got even nastier.

Turns out, she had someplace to go. Her Friday trip "to the store" was actually a visit to a Lawyer to start divorce papers. Saturday she was planning to go pick them up. But I was gone. Had an interesting talk with her Dad who finally had the cajones to say alot of things him and MIL have been keeping inside for several years. Anyway, ended up coming home and told WW I needed to sit down and talk to her face to face, in a non-confrontational manner.

We talked for about an hour, discussing where we are at, where we're going and how we're going to get there. Eliminated her wishes to proceed with divorce for the time being, and really got alot of questions answered.

For now, she still wants divorce, but we can't as it just doesn't work on many fronts, mainly housing, and other factors.

Since last Friday or Thurs, we had planned a family trip (her, me and DD) to go to a zoo type thing out here on Sunday, and that's what we did. Ended up being one of the best days I/we've(?) had in a LONG time. We were actually able to get some great family photos which sadly we didn't have since our DD was born almost 4 years ago. Was a good day.

Most notably though, the W I know seems to be back. She is not glued to her phone and carrying it all over the place like she has been. She's been reading like she normally does, and just generally seems to be "back".

I need to continue reading SAA, but at this point, she is convinced that we are done and can never be again. Though, at one time during Saturday's talk, she said something to the extent of divorcing, and who knows maybe in the future sometime we get back together again then we do, but doesn't want me to have hope.

Really not sure what's going on in her mind. As much as I know she cares for our DD's long term well being, and how much I know she at one time (at least) loved me so much, I can't see how she can go through with D and effect our DD's entire future. She's been told by several people that children of D, especially when this young (3), end up just fine. I say B-S. I know better, and she should too.

Just not sure how to proceed. Can't see telling her my plan (MB) for R when she's convinced a D is the only thing we can do. For an unknown amount of time, as of now, we plan to live together, act normal basically, and I guess eventually split. I don't know. All I know is I'm currently applying for night shift work so our DD can continue to go to school, and I can start to provide income. Financial stress has apparently been more of a burden than she ever let on. Thought I was doing right by her and our DD by being SAHD, but apparently I'm the only one in the family who thought that. Good thing about me going to work though is, it will force her to pick up alot of the childcare which I normally do every night when she is home, so she will see just how "easy" that is.

Just trying to run a smooth Plan A. Sometimes it's real hard, and I feel like saying F it. But at the end of the day, most important to me is saving my DD from a life of pain. Just need to convince my W that we can R and have a M better than it ever was.

Asked my W today by text if she wanted to watch a specific show we've watched every season of, kind of an informal "date" so to speak. She replied with a "sure, thanks for asking instead of assuming" which really threw me off. Couldn't figure out why "assuming" we would watch the show together was a bad thing.

One day at a time.

*edit* MIL and FIL both VERY upset about workplace exposure. Felt I was risking our DD well being since WW could be fired over this (which she is not nor will be). Also because it's a private matter and going public with it at her work makes her and me look bad. Either way, it seems to have worked. No withdrawal sadness. During our Saturday talk, WW mentioned a few times that the "relationship" with OM was already crumbling anyway.