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Jon was advised to be nice until plan B.
The book explains that Jon knew he was being lied to but he didn't say anything.
He also lived with an active affair (like you).
You really need to read that section of the book again.
Personally I think you are headed for separation. You need to leave as pleasant a memory as possible. When she leaves you the OM will be expected to meet all of her emotional needs. You want her to think fondly of you and miss you and want to return (like Sue). Eventually their relationship will self destruct. Very few affairs last more than 6 months following exposure.
I wouldn't engage her. I would offer her a cup of coffee and walk away. Keep repeating "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our emotional needs are met".
You want to hammer this message home. Like the drug commercials in the 80s. They had a egg and frying pan and said this is your brain on drugs. Remember those? I do because they played it over and over.
You want her to remember 1 thing when her affair blows up - YOU ARE WILLING. Then you can discuss the conditions when she returns (like when Sue called Jons IM and begged him to return home)
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 09/24/12 09:09 AM. Reason: Editing quote
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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Thanx for the vote of support, TE and Viper!
2L2L, you seem - like many other tremulous BH's - to have listened and digested only half of Plan A, the missing part being defined by "and stick of Plan A." Being Super Hubby won't do it by itself. It might actually be counterproductive, as WW will transmute your grand behavior NOW into continuing through dissolution.
You have to give her the clearest possible choice between 1) the newly energized, thoughtful, caring and loving husband she still may have, or 2) a barren landscape of ashes and desolation, which is what you will planning to leave for her if she chooses poorly.
Plan A without the stick is Plan Buttboy!
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Um, please take it from me, as I still humbly try to teach others NOT to make the mistakes I did... I did the "good cop" part of Plan A only for 3 months -- drove the vets insane (still sorry, gang  ) -- was afraid to use the stick, only used the carrot. Thought I could just 'SuperHubby' my way to killing the affair -- talk about limbo, death by a thousand cuts, and messing up the children! You must do ALL of Plan A -- carrot AND the stick -- for this to have a chance. Take it from someone who has lived this, and was 'tremulous' -- apply the stick. It works.
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How is 2little avoiding the stick of plan A?
He has exposed the affair.
2little I would also rain down hell on OM. Do you have his phone number? For $5 you can have him get wake up calls at 3am in the morning. For $25 you can have him get wake up calls for a week, every hour at night. You can find Indians and Chinese that do this service on fiverr.com.
When your wife asks you (because OM complains ) just respond "What? I don't care about his problems. He is a low life individual. Would you like some coffee?"
Last edited by HDW; 09/20/12 07:47 AM.
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HDW,
If I missed that, then I apologize (trying to follow too many posts too early in the morn...)
Have a great day, all!
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How is 2little avoiding the stick of plan A?
He is doing nothing to give WW the true picture of what the divorce will be like. Sh'e so fantasy-riven that things like economic/residential dislocation and disruption are not getting through to her.
He has exposed the affair.
??? Yeah, okay, we give him his props for that, but that is so one-week ago! He needs to amaze her with the superb opportunity to build a life with the improved 2L2L v2, while keeping her aware of the dessicated, empty, existence she will have if her desired divorce is completed. He needn't WIELD the stick, just REVEAL it.
Remember all carrot and no stick to a donkey-WW leaves you with a fat....donkey.
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I don't think he's exposed to OM's family. Seems there was some difficulty finding OM's mother but, as you said, that was so one-week ago...which isn't a good thing.
Me (BH)
FWW
Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2
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I think that's just what I was rushing in to assist with -- because, like a fool, I actually lived it, accepted it (what a dope I was...)-- dangling ONLY the carrot of plan A, and not WIELDING the stick of Plan A, of which you can't really call it a Plan A without the stick portion of the program...
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Her response:
"GD-it, quit trying. What M are you talking about, we're getting a D, what are you talking about?"
"Do you want to do this the nice way or ugly way?" Ignore what your WW says. Do not engage. Ask her if she'd like a cup of coffee. Have not responded yet. Ignore? Call her bluff in Neverguessed's way? I start talking about getting nasty and that's exactly what she'll do. Is that really how I want things to go this early in Plan A or do I just ignore this as was mentioned a few posts back. You need to go apply for child support and spousal support from the welfare office, and start looking for a lawyer to file for divorce or legal separation (for the sake of your kids). You meet her Emotional Needs, yes. Leave her a love note or buy her a card. You avoid Love Busters, yes. You don't argue or make selfish demands. You also let the full consequences of an affair rain down on her head, right down to filing for child support, changing the locks if she decides to move out, etc. Plan A lasts 3 - 6 months (pick how long you think you can do this).
BH (me), age 30. Plan D final 1/1/13
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***EDIT***
No non Harley resources, please!
Last edited by Ariel; 09/24/12 09:12 AM.
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 09/24/12 09:13 AM. Reason: TOS: non Harley resource
BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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***EDIT***
Last edited by Ariel; 09/24/12 09:14 AM. Reason: TOS: non Harley resource
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Um, please take it from me, as I still humbly try to teach others NOT to make the mistakes I did... I did the "good cop" part of Plan A only for 3 months -- drove the vets insane (still sorry, gang ) -- was afraid to use the stick, only used the carrot. Thought I could just 'SuperHubby' my way to killing the affair -- talk about limbo, death by a thousand cuts, and messing up the children! You must do ALL of Plan A -- carrot AND the stick -- for this to have a chance. Take it from someone who has lived this, and was 'tremulous' -- apply the stick. It works. The stick of Plan A Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.Done,No OM contacts successfully found, WW family useless, workplace exposure minimal effect. Overall Exposure a failureNot apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused. Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Plan A is often misunderstood as "acting nice"
excuse me acting "nice' in the face of an affair makes me want to puke
Plan A is taking control of one's self ...it is NOT "acting nice" ~as if~ there was no infidelity eating away at your family .... infidelity hurts like battery acid poured on your skin
am I right?
heII yes I am right
so you scared and panicky betrayed ~~~> SPEAK UP
tell the truth
"This affair hurts me. This affair is going to destroy our family. Let's get help."
If your spouse does something really thoughtless ... SPEAK UP.
"What you just said (did) hurts me terribly."
"I feel wounded by your affair."
"My heart aches for the love we used to share."
But be careful ... don't get needy or whiney or weepy ... those are love-busters
it's a fine line between telling the truth about what hurts ... and staying away from LB behaviors
ASK for help from the board
if you are unsure if what you are doing is correct... examine how much self control you have at any given moment ... and if you are feeling in control of yourself ... you are probably right on the money !
if you feel yourself losing control ... step away and re-group Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous. Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
If we experience no consequences when we mess up ... there is very little motivation for us to change our wrong behaviors that have become a habit
do the infidel a favor
do not stand inbetween them and their consequences
show respect for the infidel by allowing them to feel whatever their behaviors have earned them
be it
shame
embarrasment
fear
whatever they have earned
let it be
unpleasant consequences are what motivates changing habitual bad behaviors
let it roll Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders. Need more here, when, how, how often, specific examples?Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family. Am I missing something of the Stick portion of the carrot & stick plan? Some I've done or am doing, other parts need help with (see above).
BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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Also, do I continue to confront her on things I think or know are lies regarding the ongoing A? Not likely to get the truth anyway so is it best just to avoid it and the ensuing fight?
Last edited by 2little_2late; 09/20/12 04:49 PM.
BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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How is 2little avoiding the stick of plan A?
2little I would also rain down hell on OM. Do you have his phone number? For $5 you can have him get wake up calls at 3am in the morning. For $25 you can have him get wake up calls for a week, every hour at night. You can find Indians and Chinese that do this service on fiverr.com. I don't see this being very effective since cell phones are easily silenced at night. Might work a time or two, but then he'll just shut off the ringer. I like the idea though, any others? Desperate to F with this guy but don't want to do anything illegal or to make me look bad if/when this all goes to court re: child custody
BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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2L2L, if I were you I would march myself to where your WW works and get IN HIS FACE. Tell him if he thinks you're going to just stand aside while his worthless [censored] tears apart your family he's got another think coming (or whatever you want to say). Announce your love for your wife loud and proud (just loud enough so that the others in the office can hear) and let him know you'll be bringing hell to his doorstep if he interferes in your marriage any longer.
You wanna F with him? Then try the direct approach.
Every man I meet is in some way my superior; and in that I can learn of him.
-Ralph Waldo Emerson
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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HDW,
If I missed that, then I apologize (trying to follow too many posts too early in the morn...)
Have a great day, all! No, Dad - you're spot on. Good call.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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HDW,
If I missed that, then I apologize (trying to follow too many posts too early in the morn...)
Have a great day, all! Meaning what? He has exposed the affair.
He needn't WIELD the stick, just REVEAL it.
Remember all carrot and no stick to a donkey-WW leaves you with a fat....donkey. How is this done? In a calm, straightforward manner? And in the long run, isn't it best for my daughter for us to be able to get along and do things together like birthdays and such? Not that I would want to, but if it gets to that, I want my DD to be as least affected by all this as possible. How does one handle that?
BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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