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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane

BUT, you are not a psychologist and we are here to get Dr Harley's opinion, not our own personal opinion.


True enough smile

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Every BW I know that did plan A longer than 3-4 weeks ended up with near breakdowns and they will admit they were in Plan A waaaaaaay too long. They did not want to let go and second guessed whether their Plan A had been long enough, good enough, etc. The bottom line was they did not want to let go. Plan A became Plan H and they suffered greatly for it.

Six months for a BH? Seems way too long for me but I also wouldn't have done Plan A for 4 days much less 4 weeks.


BW - me
exWH - serial cheater
2 awesome kids
Divorced 12/2011




Many a good man has failed because he had a wishbone where his backbone should have been.

We gain strength, and courage, and confidence by each experience in which we really stop to look fear in the face... we must do that which we think we cannot.
--------Eleanor Roosevelt
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I think Harley suggests 6 months for men because they are more able to bear it than women.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Rocketqueen, I have been here a long time and I have encountered women that I know would have had nervous breakdowns or committed suicide if they had not gone into Plan B quickly. When they start going down, it happens FAST. We have women here who suffer PTSD and suffered terrible emotional and physical problems due to an overly long Plan A. It is a horrible feeling to see a woman who is brought so low by the affair.

There is a sense of urgency about getting them into Plan B. I will never ever play around with the time limits for a female in Plan A because of what I have seen here. Not so with most men. They do seem to last much longer without repercussions.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I wonder sometimes if I will have any long term effects (PTSD) of my plan A because of my waaaaay to long plan A. Should I have gone the 362 days of plan A? NO. Would I have gone longer if Mel didn't tighten the screws on me? Probably, plus I probably would had a nice soft room. Listen to the vets and the Plan A time frame. Plan A is not supposed to be Plan endurance, you do not get an award for it.


"Get busy living, or get busy dying"...... The Shawshank Redemption.
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What is plan H?


Me BW: 30
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Plan Hope, I think. AKA Plan C. Plan Confusion.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: HDW
[

He has Told some callers they can be in plan A for long periods of time, evn after divorce
It's up to the spouse how long they want to. He makes it clear that it is a personal decision.


You mean MEN can Plan A for longer periods, right? Because he doesn't tell women that. He tells women to stay in Plan A no longer than 4 weeks. And of course every thing is a personal decision.


I've listened to something like four years worth of radio shows. (I know ML has, as well.)

To me it sounds like Dr. Harley almost always encourages men to Plan A longer than they think they can, and almost always encourages women to stop Plan A sooner than they think they need to. And he is quite serious about it.

If Dr. Harley has a woman call in who has been enduring an ongoing affair on the part of her husband for more than three weeks, he just about always tells her to go to Plan B, even if she has never heard of "Plan A" and "Plan B" before.

Hearing Dr. Harley talks about what happens to women when they endure a prolonged unsuccessful Plan A makes me feel very serious about making sure that wives get to Plan B when they need to. An affair is the worst suffering that can ever happen to someone, male or female: I can't imagine being responsible for putting a woman through more of it than she has to go through. It would be like collaborating with her wayward husband and sharing some of the guilt for what happens to her.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Update time,

WW continues to carry on in her A. Leaving the house pretty much every other day. I've stopped doing Plan A type things. I've stopped having hope for recovery. I can't stand to be around her, and when I am, even though I am neutral, she is very hostile towards me and even the most innocent question or statement from me is met with total hostility, which really pisses me off. If anyone should be hostile, it's me.

I'm working on getting back to work, but there are some steps I need to take to get there first, and am working on those. In the meantime, I'm preparing my D paperwork, packing some things and waiting for the day we don't have to live together anymore.

Something's happened in my mind since last weekend. On Saturday, WW, me and DD all spent the day at the pumpkin patch we've gone to for the last 3 years. Was a fun day, though WW and I were more distant than we have been on past "family" outings.

The next day, she "had to go to a couple stores" only to come home without anything. So something just clicked and since that day, I've lost all hope of R with her. Even if she came to me and said it was over and wanted to work things out, at this point, I honestly don't think I can. I can't stop thinking about all the lies, the fact that she's had sex with him, the fact that she's put this POS in front of me and her DD and I just get sick.

I was able to overcome cheating from my XW on multiple occasions, probably because it was always discovered when the cheating was already done and over with and she was remorseful. My WW now, knows I know, doesn't give a S and just carries on like she's met the man of her dreams and to top it off acts like she hates me.

I just don't care any more. I wanted it to work out so badly primarily for my DD, but also because I loved my W, but she's walked all over me so much in the last few months, I can't see ever getting back to a state of normality. I feel like anyone who can do this to someone they "loved" for 12 years doesn't deserve me.

Well, I could go on, but suffice to say, I'm not doing anything but Plan D I guess at this point. I can't do a Plan B as we are still stuck living together until I can potentially get the judge to kick her butt out. I really haven't even considered doing Plan B anymore as I don't want her back at this point.

I don't know how people can recover after going through this mess for many months and years. I don't know, maybe I could too, but right now, I don't want her. Let that POS have her and he can deal with her crap when she starts dishing it out to him as well. I pray some day she will feel the same way I do right now. Maybe then she will know how F d up it is what she is putting me through. She actually has the nerve to get mad at me when she can read me and see that I am bothered about everything that is going on.


BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
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I read your post on my thread and your story here as well. Our situations are very similar up to the point where my WW took my kids and fled the country to continue her affair. I'm not a vet on this but read SAA and HNHN and many other threads on this forum and all I can say is this. I know it sucks bad but don't lose hope, show her you lost hope but keep that hope to yourself. Stay stoic and strong and honestly she will come around when you least expect it. The thing about OM is this, they want what we have but don't want to put the work in to get it. When they have to work for it they lose interest cause its not fun.

My WW said hateful things and had my SS do the same because she wanted a reaction from me; an angry one. When I didn't show her that she got knocked off her plan her script for how this will go down. Now she is confused because I know she had sex with POSOM and I know that this fantasy build up she had for it wasn't what she thought it would be that's why she called to talk to me. In her fogbabbled mind she missed me and wanted any type attention from good or bad and wanted to see if I still cared for her. She told me she might have cancer I used my snooping and found out this is true. I told her I care and ill pray so that reaffirmed my love for her. That what's she wanted to hear. Now I'm in a dark plan B and its killing her not to hear from me. She called my best friends wife to get some info about me, what I'm doing, how I'm doing etc. BF wife said I'm not telling you anything.

I guess what I'm saying is this your in the house together and as long as you two are together she can carry on this fantasy life of no responsibities and living in a bubble. When you split up (different homes) she will be crushed by the real world and be very depressed even though she's with POSOM. Look at your D as a Super Plan B. My WW was diagnosed with depression as well and stopped taking meds for it because she claimed I was the cause. I know now she is very depressed even though she got what she wanted a PA and our kids. She is confused and angry at herself because she can't figure out why she feels bad when she got some of what she wanted. This will happen for your WW as well, focus on improving yourself mentally and physically and your DD and she will come around. I'll pray for you brother.

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It sounds like you've reached the end of your rope. If WW isn't stopping the affair and flaunts it in front of you like this, I'd go to Plan B and even see an attorney...getting everything lined out for child custody would be of priority to me. What's the latest on a job?


Enacting life's lessons into positive change... .
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Continue to plan A.
Avoid Angry Outbursts
See an atty

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Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
It sounds like you've reached the end of your rope. If WW isn't stopping the affair and flaunts it in front of you like this, I'd go to Plan B and even see an attorney...getting everything lined out for child custody would be of priority to me. What's the latest on a job?


I have. I'm so done with Plan A. There will be no Plan B other than going dark once possible. I don't want her anymore. She's done and continues to do too much. I deserve better. I can't see ever having a life with her after what she's done.

I have an appointment with a court facilitator later today and in one week an appointment with a volunteer lawyer to get some legal advice and to look over the papers I've been working on.

Pretty sad and depressed, but I can't even be in the same room with her and not feel sick. She's rarely home and constantly leaving us (me and DD) home alone. In the last two days she spent a total of 30-45 minutes with DD and that's only because they were in the car together on the way home from work. Which is really fine I guess, as it only helps my case. Feel SO terrible for DD though. I hate what she is about to go through.

Anyone with tips or advice on dealing with these emotions care to share, I'd love to hear it.


BH (me) - 40 WW-31
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DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
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Oh, on the job, I'm working to get the classes I need to re-enter my previous profession at journeyman level. They changed the system since I was last in and now I have classes to take or I can't get full wage. So not working yet, but working on working.


BH (me) - 40 WW-31
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DD 3
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Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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I encourage you to plan a.
Not to win your wife back but for your own good.

Ive been in your situation. And I did plan a until the day of divorce

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Originally Posted By: 2little_2late
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
It sounds like you've reached the end of your rope. If WW isn't stopping the affair and flaunts it in front of you like this, I'd go to Plan B and even see an attorney...getting everything lined out for child custody would be of priority to me. What's the latest on a job?


I have. I'm so done with Plan A. There will be no Plan B other than going dark once possible.Anyone with tips or advice on dealing with these emotions care to share, I'd love to hear it.


Why no plan B or letter?
Not saying don't get a divorce. Though after doing a plan A how much will it take to send a simple to the point NC letter and that all contact must go through an IM. So find a parent, sibling, friend to be your intermediary. Finish the right way.

This way no direct contact for any reason will happen.

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Originally Posted By: 2little_2late
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
It sounds like you've reached the end of your rope. If WW isn't stopping the affair and flaunts it in front of you like this, I'd go to Plan B and even see an attorney...getting everything lined out for child custody would be of priority to me. What's the latest on a job?


I have. I'm so done with Plan A. There will be no Plan B other than going dark once possible. I don't want her anymore. She's done and continues to do too much. I deserve better. I can't see ever having a life with her after what she's done.

I have an appointment with a court facilitator later today and in one week an appointment with a volunteer lawyer to get some legal advice and to look over the papers I've been working on.

Pretty sad and depressed, but I can't even be in the same room with her and not feel sick. She's rarely home and constantly leaving us (me and DD) home alone. In the last two days she spent a total of 30-45 minutes with DD and that's only because they were in the car together on the way home from work. Which is really fine I guess, as it only helps my case. Feel SO terrible for DD though. I hate what she is about to go through.

Anyone with tips or advice on dealing with these emotions care to share, I'd love to hear it.


I would ignore your emotions and follow a plan. It's natural for the concepts of Plan Aing or writing a Plan B letter to stick in the throat of an angry BS.

Why do they deserve calm, kindness, consideration and offers of love after all they have done?!!?

But that is the plan. A war-like plan of cunning against a deadly enemy.

Stick to the plan, not to your feelings, which will jerk you around daily.

Later, when you feel worse you will be pitched in to the well of 'did I try hard enough?' doubts. Later still, when you are better you will feel proud of your actions in being a beacon for the marriage right till the end.

If she doesnt appreciate your Plan Aing or the Plan B letter, that is her own silly fault. Don't be too proud to be logical.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

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Originally Posted By: 2little_2late
She's rarely home and constantly leaving us (me and DD) home alone. In the last two days she spent a total of 30-45 minutes with DD and that's only because they were in the car together on the way home from work.


Borrowing something that HDW did, make sure you keep a log of when she is home and when she isn't.

It'll come in handy later.


Me (BH)
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Married 2000, DS 8, DD 6, DD 2

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Originally Posted By: TheRoad
Originally Posted By: 2little_2late
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
It sounds like you've reached the end of your rope. If WW isn't stopping the affair and flaunts it in front of you like this, I'd go to Plan B and even see an attorney...getting everything lined out for child custody would be of priority to me. What's the latest on a job?


I have. I'm so done with Plan A. There will be no Plan B other than going dark once possible.Anyone with tips or advice on dealing with these emotions care to share, I'd love to hear it.


Why no plan B or letter?
Not saying don't get a divorce. Though after doing a plan A how much will it take to send a simple to the point NC letter and that all contact must go through an IM. So find a parent, sibling, friend to be your intermediary. Finish the right way.

This way no direct contact for any reason will happen.


Well I had actually planned to do this part of Plan B. But the way I've been feeling lately, I didn't want to write the Plan B letter that says when you're done with your affair, come on back, I'll be waiting. I just don't think I can ever get past all this. I don't want to live the rest of my life (with her) knowing I was second choice.


BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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Originally Posted By: indiegirl

I would ignore your emotions and follow a plan. It's natural for the concepts of Plan Aing or writing a Plan B letter to stick in the throat of an angry BS.

Why do they deserve calm, kindness, consideration and offers of love after all they have done?!!?

But that is the plan. A war-like plan of cunning against a deadly enemy.

Stick to the plan, not to your feelings, which will jerk you around daily.

Later, when you feel worse you will be pitched in to the well of 'did I try hard enough?' doubts. Later still, when you are better you will feel proud of your actions in being a beacon for the marriage right till the end.

If she doesnt appreciate your Plan Aing or the Plan B letter, that is her own silly fault. Don't be too proud to be logical.


Indie, thank you for your response. Your post intrigues and confuses me. I worry and wonder if acting on how I feel is the wrong thing to do. I know recoveries are possible, but with the way she acts like I'm the worse human in the world and she HATES me, all the while doing what she is doing, is just horrible. I know from SAA that John went through the same type of things, and eventually they had a wonderful marriage. I just felt like I reached a point last weekend where I was done. I still feel like that.

I had hoped for so long that she would come to and realize what she is doing, but she only continues to distance herself from us and get closer to POSOM.

I'd been trying to do a stellar Plan A, but feel like I maybe didn't grasp the whole concept of it and may have doing a combination of Plan A and Plan DM (doormat). I've yet to see a well defined list of things which are good to do in Plan A, and things which you should never do, so as not to be in Plan DM.

I was still making her lunch, giving her compliments, flowers, no LB's, no annoying habits (I think?), and so on. But it had no effect.

I just fear if she ever did want to give us another chance, I may not ever be able to get over what's happened. In an ideal situation, I would want us to be together at least for our DD, but not in an unhealthy way.

Last edited by 2little_2late; 10/18/12 02:47 AM. Reason: remove duplicate quotes

BH (me) - 40 WW-31
Married 4, together 12
DD 3
DDay (EA) - 8/17/12
Confronted/admitted - EA turned PA - 9/11/12
Exposed- 9/12/12
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