She asks how her lipstick looks?
She may as well ask how her [censored] looks.
What's the difference?

As for divorce, I think you should file because it is a consequence of her actions.
She doesn't want to be married to you. She tells you that over and over.
Do you enjoy being a martyr for your marriage?

It wouldn't hurt to call her again and give her your contact info. The recommended practice is to always offer proof of the affair

Make sure you report your wife also.
Everyone hates the affair partner. They help ruin the marriage. But just remember through all of this that your wife is making these decisions herself.
I suggest you have a friend spy on them when they go out and then call them in for drink driving.
This will also help your custody case immensely.

Filing for divorce puts you in the driver's seat and does not automatically mean Plan B.

I'd do that as she's obviously not prepared at this point in time. Her asking you to sign papers that she got from some online kit tells me (us) that much. She hasn't thought a bit about anything past those signatures, and your forcing reality on her is, I believe, your best shot if this is to be turned around.

Best case, she gets her act together and you recover this.

Worst case, you end up divorced but are better prepared and able to work the process easier.

Ask HDW, that's what he did.

I'd file first, usually they're the driver in how it goes. You want to get your foot in the door for custody, support, possessions, etc. Any dirt you have on OM, give it to your attorney to show why he should not be around DD.

I did Plan A all the way to the divorce court.
Ten minutes after the judge signed the papers I entered into a "limited contact" Plan with my now ex wife.

***EDIT***

Moderator's note: Please do not post links to non Harley resources or other web sites.

***EDIT***

***EDIT***
I have custody today because of the Court Custody Evaluator.

Your wife doesn't even know how to load a laundry machine. She is incapable of Caring for a child and the GAL will recognize that.

**EDIT**

Moderator's note: please do not debate moderator decisions on the board.

Anyhow, there is no way either one of us can afford to pay for lawyers. Don't know what to do. I've at least started doing as advised from some other sites TE referenced today in terms of getting ready and how to find an attorney. Glad I started a journal almost since D-day. It's on the PC, but am backing up on a removable hardware.

Many attorneys offer free initial consultations.
Since you are the stay at home parent your attorney will ask the Court to order your wife to pay attorney fees

2L2L, Getting legal advice can be a great way to better understand your options and rights.

However, if you want to save your M, I would not file or go to plan B.

Dr. Harley is animate about men doing Plan A for 6 months, and women a shorter time.

I am speaking from experience my friend. If you read my posts to you, everything I am sharing has come from my FWW's mouth. If I would have thrown in the towel at the stage you are at, I don't believe we would be in R.

See, she is hurt from many years of your marriage. Mine was as well. As backwards as it may seem, if you want to win her heart back YOU have to prove to her things will be different in the future. She has to come to the point where she sees hope in the future of your M. THEN, you will see the remorse and commitment from her.

Are you angry? Hell yes! Did she stab you in the back? Of course. However, YOU have to do the heavy lifting right now to get her back in the game.

No guarantees any way you go. No doubt. Look, I am almost 10months into R and (not withstanding working through my W�s, A) my marriage is better than ever. She is more committed, happy and enthusiastic about our M than I have ever seen her before in our lives.

My advice? Again, Plan A the heck out of her, NO LB�s, stand firm on your boundaries and MOST importantly..BUST UP THIS A. NOW! By whatever means possible. This is how you will win her heart. Just as outlined in SAA.

You have options here. Make sure you weigh them carefully.

Ok, but every attempt at doing Plan A type things typically makes her angry and seem disgusted, and lately has been ending up with her asking "are you going to sign the papers?" The last thing I want is to D, and from what I've been reading it is advantageous to file first. I don't want to file, I don't want to D, but she seems 100% convinced that she does.

On top of that, according to the carrot and stick program, I'm to tell her (which I did 2 nights ago) that if the A doesn't stop, we will get D, not be friendly, not do things together for the sake of our DD, and will not see each other again after D court. So I laid my boundary. How then, once making the "threat" (for lack of a better term), can I continue on for 5-6 more months in Plan A when I know for a fact the A continues. Does that not show I didn't mean what I said?

Seems like every day her hatred towards me gets worse. Yesterday she was REAL nasty, but not just towards me, towards our DD as well. I'm wondering if POSOM's Mom had a talk with him and muddied up the waters a bit. She didn't say anything about it so who knows.

She also asked me if we should keep the house so that DD at least has one familiar place so as to not change 100% of everything in her life. I did not engage in this discussion, only said I hadn't thought about it. Every time she starts bringing up how the D will go, or what we should do, I'm afraid to say anything as I feel like I should be exercising my right to remain silent until I have legal counsel. She continues to go out, continues to text, and now is avoiding me all together by camping out in our room.

20, the big differences I see from your first post in your story, is that 1. you kicked your W out of the house and a week later she called crying for you to take her back. You did and 7 months late you found out the A was still going on. And she willingly did a 180. My W shows no inclination towards any behavior remotely close to this. She is head over heels with this POS. I feel like the longer I Plan A without result, the closer she gets to this guy.

Running out of ideas on killing the A. Exposure so far has done nothing except maybe push her farther away.

Ok, but every attempt at doing Plan A type things typically makes her angry and seem disgusted, and lately has been ending up with her asking "are you going to sign the papers?" The last thing I want is to D, and from what I've been reading it is advantageous to file first. I don't want to file, I don't want to D, but she seems 100% convinced that she does.

On top of that, according to the carrot and stick program, I'm to tell her (which I did 2 nights ago) that if the A doesn't stop, we will get D, not be friendly, not do things together for the sake of our DD, and will not see each other again after D court. So I laid my boundary. How then, once making the "threat" (for lack of a better term), can I continue on for 5-6 more months in Plan A when I know for a fact the A continues. Does that not show I didn't mean what I said?

Seems like every day her hatred towards me gets worse. Yesterday she was REAL nasty, but not just towards me, towards our DD as well. I'm wondering if POSOM's Mom had a talk with him and muddied up the waters a bit. She didn't say anything about it so who knows.

She also asked me if we should keep the house so that DD at least has one familiar place so as to not change 100% of everything in her life. I did not engage in this discussion, only said I hadn't thought about it. Every time she starts bringing up how the D will go, or what we should do, I'm afraid to say anything as I feel like I should be exercising my right to remain silent until I have legal counsel. She continues to go out, continues to text, and now is avoiding me all together by camping out in our room. [/quote]
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One thing I learned from AlAnon, if you make a threat to an addict you must carry through with it or they will walk all over you.
You did the correct thing. You established a personal boundary. You said you will not remain married to her if she is having sex with other men. If she chooses to continue her affair then she is choosing divorce.

Do not engage with her about further discussions of divorce, keeping the house etc.
Just keep repeating the sentence "I am willing to work with you to create a loving, healthy marriage where both of our needs are met"

As for Plan A : I did Plan A before and after I filed for divorce. And I plan A all the way to the courthouse. I entered a version of Plan B after the judge signed the Divorce Decree.
That process took from December through July. Some divorces last more than two years. So you have plenty of time to file and plan A during the process.

One thing I want to stress is to you is the importance of not throwing yourself under the bus. There is no point in being a martyr for a marriage that she has trampled all over.

Her actions are a complete deal breaker. It doesn't matter if she's mad that you didn't buy wheat toast or that you don't clean the toilet often. She is responsible for her own actions. Now she is going to bars and possibly driving drunk. She is spiraling downwards fast and it's important you protect yourself and your daughter from her self destructive behaviors.

Her parents live next door and she still goes out? Where the hell is her mom, taking the keys from her and telling her to get back in the house? Are her parents at all concerned she may become a useless drunk in life?

You are seriously contemplating picketing the boyfriends house because your wife I hour out to bars with him. She needs to face her own consequences and being served with divorce papers can be a big wake up call.

If you read SAA, Sue had to move out and hit absolute rock bottom before the affair died. Only then was she willing to meet Jons conditions for marital recovery

I won't disagree. Everyone here has a different story yet they all have the same moral to the stories. WW�s are WW�s. Different, yet all the same.

I took a very strong stance from day 1 and never backed down. Still haven't. I think that impressed FWW and now she looks back and sees I fought for our M while maintaining strong boundaries.

I didn�t have MB upon dday and would have done things differently then knowing what I know now.

What I am trying to do is give you different perspectives when you weigh your options. There are no guarantees any way you go here. No guarantee you�re M will survive.

Dr. Harley encourages 6mo�s Plan A Carrot/Stick approach. Only YOU know what you can do and not do.

What I do know FOR SURE is if that A isn�t busted up you don�t stand a chance in R. Here is why;

Her LB balance with you. It is getting drained right now. If she continues her fantasy relationship, the LB balance will go to zero. And it should. Once that is gone..most likely you will just be DONE and walk away. Totally understand. You have that right.

At some point..the A will run its course� and she may want to come back. Pre-D or Post-D. Either way, chances are you will have moved on with your life. Too much damage will have been done.

What I can tell you is that I fought for my marriage. I had strong boundaries and never have I one single time bended. Now, was she still lying? Yes. If you read my thread you will see how that all unfolded and how we got to where we are now.

Now-

She THANKS me for saving her from herself. She THANKS me for standing by her at her lowest lows. She THANKS me for giving her a second chance.

A�s are an addiction. You know that right? Treat it as such. Break the addiction FIRST.

Make no mistake. Upon dday, my FWW was head over heals for POSOM too!

Told me she loved him. Guess what? Total BS. She wasn't in love with him. She was only in love with the FEELING.

Huge difference.

I found a way to make her fall back in love with me during our FR. Crazy writing those words. Sounds nuts I know.

Not ideal. BUT, anything is possible. Nothing is off the table right now. She is knee deep into her addiction. That is why your only priority is to find all means and methods to destroy it.

Plan B? maybe. Plan A carrot stick? maybe. File for D? maybe. Only you can make that call.

You have read about cake eating on this site.. right?


If not, I would be doing some research on it here. There are ways to deal with that.

"Well, me and DD are staying in the house. If you want to leave me and DD for OM, then that's your decision to make." Keywords there are "and DD" as it points out that she isn't just leaving you.

[I had the same conversation, by the way]