Yeah - agreed, especially to the last point. There are other things grief-related going on that would personalize this all too much. I have always had difficulty letting go of people in my life and XWH knows this.

I was pretty depressed and tired (for other reasons) and despondent when I wrote the above. Most of the time I don't think that way. For anyone who knows about depressive illness (as opposed to situational depression), they know it causes you to think about making stupid changes in order to change anything at all in one's life.

I did decide to take a break from the R for a while, until both of us can get our act together. It's difficult. It's a strong love and probably wouldn't have made it this far if it hadn't been. But my NM (new man) is dealing with a difficult illness and sometimes it interferes with our communication, as does my depression. I have directed him to Dr. Harley's materials as well though, and though we are apart, I think it is helping. Our situation demands that we live apart though we are still committed - that is, he is and I am when not depressed.

I have more recently been overcoming my problems with trust and now feel more secure about the R than the first few years. That said, I know I will never ever feel complacent about it. I was complacent with XWH and only my nightmares told me something was amiss until XWH's confession. Before that, he should have won an Oscar!

But the depression is really the problem. It comes and goes but it sure makes my past grass look greener than it was and current grass browner than it is. My NM's illness causes similar things with him, only not as severe.

But when we both feel well and rested, it's very clear we love each other and want the relationship to work toward an eventual marriage when we're older.

I don't feel it's mature to try to control other people's behavior that you have zip/zilch control over. To avoid it would be to avoid my siblings, my grandchildren, my children and all the people I have grown up with. That's just plain bitter and silly. Should I lose the rest of my family by trying to control THEIR actions?

No, over time, my reactions have become less and less toxic to me and I believe they will continue to do so.

If you chose to lose your links to family in your situation, and that "makes you happy" then good for you. Though I can't say you appear particularly "happy" to me, from what I have read.

I will not do that. I already lost my adult son because of the divorce. I will not give up being loving and supportive of others in my family (other than XWH and W2) as well. I am already better just in deciding not to do that. I have been through counseling on this and made that decision.

Again, it is not really so much that it >currently< makes me that unhappy. It is more a matter of curiosity of it being "weird" of him/them at this point.

sigh...

MFF, I am not suggesting you control the behavior of others, but your OWN behavior. There is nothing mature about continually placing yourself in stressful situations and then complaining that you are depressed. THAT is silly. You seem overly obsessed with your long gone husband and I think your continued contact keeps that false hope alive.

I have completely excised my XH and his OW from my life and have never shut off contact with my family so I know you could do it too if you really wanted to. I suspect you don't want to cut off contact, though.

You do know that Harley states that if an affair is not over in 2 years, that the probability of marital reconcilation is about NIL?

That was very snotty of you. I took time out of my life to post to you and find the above very ungracious and disappointing.

Well that may be. Mostly I find your approach to discussion rather toxic to the idea that I should share any more with you. You don't feel "safe to share with" to me, and that's just the way it is. I can see you probably wouldn't take any responsibility for that...

I took "time out of my life" to answer you as well.

From the past, many people take different approaches to "helping" others. I have known those who really have compassionate caring and actually listen to others well. I have also known those who interrogate other people in the guise of helping them, mostly because they are trying to fullfil something in themselves. Even when a person wants "help", it means that certain approaches make that help more amenable.

Someone may desperately need a shower, but that doesn't mean they are going to welcome (and not be harmed by) a firehose spray...

Have you considered that your own approach might have something to do with your own sad lot in life? When I see someone who is so deeply bitter and hostile, it is not a surprise that they have pushed away so many people in their lives.

Your behavior on this thread reflects much more about you than it does others, madam.


But, you came here seeking help. We didn't seek you out. That makes you a rather ungracious individual, wouldn't you say?

**edit**

You do understand that your presence here is completely voluntary, right? There is nothing holding you here.

It seems to me if you feel so hostile that it would compel you to make snide, unkind remarks to the people who took time out of their day to post to you that you might want to rethink your presence. Just a suggestion..

I have attended support groups where each person speaks and the group listens.
But this is an advice forum for a specific program.
I would make sure that your son knows there is help here.
I read your post on forgiveness. I agree that it is noble to forgive. I think
Of persons like Nelson Mandela and he forgave his guards; yet as President he had a Truth and Reconciliation Commission to ensure that "just compensation" was made.

Lincoln issued a full pardon to Confederate troops.

And in the Lords Prayer we pray "Forgive us our Sins and we forgive those whom sin against us"

However some people chose to become martyrs and it's important to examine yourself and ask if that is what you choose.

Just in case it is not clear:

I do not have contact with the XWH and W2.

The situations I spoke of were not of my own doing. They were unasked for instances of being informed of visits XWH made, photos (along with other family members), and messages of his which were responded to where I did not see the original message... ie.
"@George - yes I thought that was funny".
I
*I would have liked to move on to my current life in this conversation, but harping on things I did not say and extracting inaccurate information does not help that occur.

Granted the betrayal and divorce *worsened* my depression (at times), they are not the cause of it. It is biological and I doubt everyone knows and understands biological depression and it's results. I would say to view the movie **edit** as that is a clear indicator that no one "asks" for depression, and how it affects the view of one's life >while it is in the biology< but not constant.

**edit**

I came here to settle that last tiny bit of a question within myself and I am done with it. When I am not in depression, I really don't want to go back to the old life either. Depression though, demands "an answer" to one's dark feelings - any answer will do, however irrelevant - and sometimes preposterous.

**edit**

**edit**

Please don't disrupt this forum with endless complaints about other members. If you have an issue with another member, please notify the moderators and let us handle it. Complaints about the forum should be addressed to the administrator rather than complaining in the forum. If this continues, we will lock the thread.

Um... as I understand Plan B, it is to avoid all contact.
I haven't had any direct contact with XH or W2.
I have no contact with them now.
In the past, it was the indirect contact that bothered me.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I've been trying to be mature for five years running. No, I can't say that I have done this for that long. I spent four years running around trying to tell everyone else why they shouldn't be communicating with XH. I spent four years trying to control the situation.

This last year, I decided to finally work on letting go. THAT brought quite a bit of relief almost immediately. No, not everything went away -- but when I gave up trying to control other people's behavior with XH, it got better.

It is ONLY during (some) moments of depression that there is any sadness. That is what depression does and has always done - even before the divorce. Even before i was married. Even while I was a teenager. Depression puts on the dark glasses and whatever you see through them looks dark. Anything but the current reality looks brighter looking backward.

What *works* is for me to recognize the difference between reality, who I am, and the depressive illness.

I'm sorry that I came in here wearing the "mask" of depression, but I had just gotten through 30 days of exhausting caretaking of an elderly family member, some difficulties with NM, and finding out a female member of my family has a very serious (possibly fatal and definitely debilitating) illness.

I realize I haven't said anything about how life has changed...

Before and after the D:

I wasn't driving - I drive across country now.
I didn't have my own financial accounts - I do now.
I couldn't buy anything without asking XH - I make my own decisions now.
I didn't have or use credit or debit cards - I do now.
I was nearly completely selfish - I care for others now.
I wasn't following any spiritual path - I am at present.
I was only participating in one (limited) group - I am in several now.
I had never purchased a house on my own - I own one now that I wish to sell and get one here.
and
My relationships with several siblings, nieces and nephews, and one of my two children and a parent are definitely improved.
I am a stronger person.

Had XH stayed with me, none of that could have taken place in that amount of time. One of my resolves is to look over this list more often.



PS. I guess I'm trying to detail a whole five to six year span of time all at the same time in separate messages and this is what is confusing people? Aside from the initial posting which was semi-garbled, the result of exhaustion, stress and depression and not at all what life has normally been for me...

Also I think I will move to the dating forum, since the initial question about XH has really been answered and.

MFF- no communication means no communication, not even a pleasant interaction. I'm no stranger to depression since my life as I knew it was blown apart by infidelity. If my WH even said "hi" I went into depression. You tried to be friends with your xWH's new wife!!! Maybe you should read the thread on how to plan B correctly.

You really shouldn't be dating unless you're fully recovered in my opinion. You're just bringing your old baggage into your new relationships. Not trying to pretend to be an expert. I leave that to the veteran MBers. FWIW I think you should be single for a while until you're fully recovered.

Good luck to you.

That was more than a year ago!
I hadn't even heard of any of this a year ago.
I haven't had contact with them since then.

I'm getting "advice" based on inaccurate assumptions and bits and pieces of information - some from the very distant past and mixed up with current information. I was operating under very different principles then.

I'm sure my boyfriend of four years will be not be happy to hear that people here think I should break up with him and dishonor the time and effort we have put into our relationship and that we cannot be together until I am "perfected". I am sure that either of us - who have accepted each other as we are -- will not be okay with missing each other's presence and partnership in spiritual pursuits for the rest of our lives because we have been injured by previous spouses.

I don't think he will be happy to hear that because I get depressed every so often that I should completely dump my relationship with him. With that advice, I may as well go to the nunnery!

Is this what Dr. Harley prescribes?

We have to be completely 100% totally over and beyond all the hurt of losing the previous life before we can >ever< be with anyone else? I have read elsewhere that it takes one year for every five years to "get over it". I'm on year six just now after a 30 year marriage ended.

I'm in my late fifties... How long would you all want me to wait before attempting to find love again? Sixty... seventy... eighty years old?

But wait -- I've found someone already. We have a four year history and still love each other. I should dump him just to meet your requirements? Please, Dr. Harley - tell me this is not true! That I should break his heart and mine because so many of you think I'm "not ready"?

Well I have tried to provide more data. It hasn't worked.
Here are some of the misconceptions

Some answers keep operating on the misconception that I tried to be friends >recently< and several are not reading the corrections that the attempt was more than a year ago and no contact since. I couldn't "Plan B" a year ago, because I didn't even know about it. Actually, immediately after that I did the Plan B steps and read about it later. In other words, it was ONE attempt ONE year ago and nothing since.

Another misconception that doesn't seem to be able to be corrected: I am not depressed about the divorce. It is intermittent depression based on biology. It comes and goes. It is not "triggered" by anything, except perhaps hormones, or stress. I have always had that.

Trying to make the actual conditions clear to people who seem to not be reading everything I have said is also stressful, and thus, depressing. Having to correct every little misconception upon which pronouncement are based is completely unappealing.

Does it matter that persons here have a misconception that I am somehow chasing my XH around currently? I certainly think it does if I am wanting to move toward receiving advice on my current relationship. Because based on those misconceptions I am being told not to be in a relationship with my bf.

I know that's gotta be wrong. There are a number of reasons why we are not holding hands in this moment, but none of those reasons lessen our love and care for each other.

I think the stupidest mistake I have made this week was coming here and posting when I was stressed out and exhausted from care taking and having temporary communication problems with bf. It is at such moments that depression takes over and dumb thoughts are thoughts are thought and doubts about courses of action are verbalized.

And I made the mistake of verbalizing a moment of fantasy life to a bunch of strangers who took that for my day to day level of thinking...

Nearly all the subsequent advice given was based on a moment of doubt - a stupid question in my head prompted by depressive feelings. What's been expressed is that I am unworthy of any relationship because I am not always 100% absolutely positively clear of any wondering about what could have been.

But I say - if I had taken that attitude about my recent years in college, I would not have graduated WITH HONORS. Because there were many moments of doubt, in those years. If I had dropped out because of those moments, I would not have earned my degree.

Depression can cause doubt in anything the person might be doing. I'm not talking about simple sadness; I'm talking about pervasive questioning of one's life no matter how perfect it might be...

Like the song says:

"Ain't about how fast I get there
Ain't about what's waiting on the other side
It's the climb"

And now, after exhausting myself trying to see into other people's heads why their reactions are so distressing, I'm going to bed and dream.

Well, it seems I missed a great deal of rancor and anguish last evening/night, but you wanted answers to specific questions and here is what I have to offer:

After all this time, should I even be thinking about this anymore?

SHOULD you? No, obviously not. Thinking about painful things perpetrated on your person by folks from whom you might have expected care and support (WH, family, etc) will, if anything, exacerbate your naturally depressed emotional state. But WILL you? Yes, you obviously will, without taking hard action. Whether or not your condition is the direct cause of your marriage's failure, it most certainly is now part of a toxic symbiosis (depression feeds memory/consideration feeds depression, etc). You need to interrupt this cycle, Ma'am, to escape the pit you are in.

I know how "most" affairs end, but why does my ex have to be the one countering the statistics?

Well, generically it would be obvious that even a 99% certainty leaves the 1% exception. More specifically, however, it could be posited that the BH's ENs are being satisfied in his "affairage" to the extent that the detractors, such as any residual guilt surrounding the illicit way in which their union came together, are not sufficient to end the relationship. I would also point out, friend, that had you been on this site five (?) years ago, our advice (well, MB advice; I was not here, either) would have provided you means to prevent the easy acceptance of the POSOW into your family's good graces.

I'd expect it from my kids -- but parents, siblings, and more?

They are obviously responding - right or wrong - with the behavior to what they see from YOU'RE behavior. You have (attributing the cause to your emotional condition) preferred to accept the affairage with a certain degree of equanimity. That is HIGHLY unusual. Most BWs hate with a white-hot flame, the existence of the new "couple". Your tacit allowance of what is as "okay" gives them the license to expand on their interaction with them.