Background:

Current boyfriend/fiance' and I have been in a relationship for four years.
When we started out, we were both extremely well, but since then several things have started to wear us down. Not that it reduces our love and commitment - that has grown. But just in terms of our both being tired out and it harder to work on filling love banks.

He has a chronic illness that reduces his energy and ability to think and communicate. I have cyclical depression. It has taken quite some time for us to learn how to deal with this, especially since we each get worse at times of high stress. We have had some big arguments, but have never stayed apart longer than a month. I found Dr. Harley's views on the three states of marriage (intimacy, conflict, and withdrawal) extremely enlightening and helpful!

The love is strong with us and we remain committed to someday having a life together. We have to live apart for financial reasons.

At the moment we are apart, though in agreement that we have things we need to work on in order to come back together under more stable conditions. We will likely be spending some UA time on the weekend...

Is anyone else here in a relationship with someone with a chronic illness - mental or physical?
If so, did you find that your relationship fluctuates with the illness?

Thanks.

Welcome MeForFamily! Have you spent much time looking at MB? One of the things Dr Harley says is that dating should be easy and that if it is not easy, it is the wrong relationship.

The idea is that if you are struggling and fighting now, these issues will become impossible roadblocks under the stresses of married life.

Dr Harley's views on the three states of marriage do not apply during dating. If you are not in a state of intimacy while you are dating, you have a problem. Instead of trying to mend this relationship, you might want to see if there is a better fit elsewhere. My hunch is that depression does not partner well with chronic illness.

So we should just toss away this strong love relationship of four years after finding someone willing to go through this with us?


Neither of us can get married or live together (either with each other or with anyone else) for financial reasons. I'm under a no cohabitation clause and he is on widower's pension with his one remaining child. We are both disabled - he because of illness and me because of depression. Neither of us is on disability and there are many obstacles to that.


I'm not sure this relationship could be properly called "dating". Neither of us is seeing other people or want to. Both of us are committed to working on this relationship and we have come so far from where we were. Both of us believe that this relationship has made us better people.

The principles seem to work anyway, even though we're not the traditional ideal relationship that leads toward marriage. If you think that's wrong - that's fine... Take it up with the courts that have "no cohabitation clause" in a divorce decree for a disabled spouse. We would be married but for that. Would you then counsel leaving? Or do you think people with disabilities not deserve to have love in their life when their former spouse leaves?


I think we are. There's enough evidence that we are both invested in this relationship and that if it weren't for his chronic illness and my depression sometimes getting worse at the same times, we'd be just fine. I was asking for a specific answer from someone with experience on this, not "just a hunch". My question was if anyone else deals with this with their spouse or partner. Doesn't sound like you do...

[
OF course it doesn't. Chronic illness does not partner well anywhere. Neither does depression. Does that mean that no one with chronic illness or depression should be in a relationship? Of course not. I don't see that in Dr. Harley's materials anywhere.

My opinion is that two people with a very strong love have the best chance of wanting to become good partners under those circumstances and not "just anybody". I don't think Dr. Harley's materials are meant to discourage those of us who have major illnesses from finding someone to partner with through the last third of life. It's not the ideal situation -- but dumping a strong love to search for a "better" partner? That's just wasteful of two lives.

So everyone here has a spouse who doesn't have chronic or mental illness or disability, and there is no one in our situation - or even with one spouse with either of these problems... Interesting.

In my age group (mid-fifties and above) that's quite an unusual skewed population I think. How about low income? Any one there?

I had postnatal depression for a year - and, considering I am due in 2 weeks, I would not be surprised if it happens again. So, I suppose that could be considered a "cyclical" illness in that it is not constant.

I suspect Dr. Harley would argue that it takes a very strong marriage to thrive under the circumstances of mental illness and/or chronic illness. There is simply no deviation from UA time, POJA, and other basic concepts. These conditions will wear down and destroy "average" marriages and put to the test, the very good ones.

Remember this - MB does not consider marriages equal. The potential, yes, but "when to call it quits" absolutely exists. A bad marriage, an "okay" marriage, and an awesome marriage are three completely different states of being. MB does not advocate settling for bad or even "okay" marriages. Those marriages eventually fail - only the strong and happy ones survive. Divorce statistics speak for themselves.

MB would not say those with mental or chronic illness should not be happy - but I suspect it would say that they must go above and beyond the already-high bar in order to create a good marriage. If I had an "okay" (let alone bad) marriage prior to my postnatal depression, I'm sure I would be divorced today. "We", meaning those of us who suffer from X, must also be reasonable in that we MUST be willing to accept help (whether that be medical, psychological) so that our spouses do not *sacrifice* themselves to our illness. Sacrifice = resentment = bad marriage.

I understand you have a divorce clause (is this related to alimony? Because you should be allowed to re-marry, unless you are only entitled to alimony/disability if single/non-cohabitating). But that does not equate this relationship to marriage - it is a dating relationship. You said yourself that you guys get into arguments and "never stayed apart more than a month". That is not marriage, that is a dating relationship, and thus dating principles apply.

There are tons of people in these forums coping with depression and mental illness, many whilst also trying to handle young children and betrayal but you are not married, you are dating. That is the difference.

A couple of articles.
What to do with a Depressed Spouse.
Choosing the Right One to Marry #2

I rephrase the question... Anyone here with those problems in a committed RELATIONSHIP?

If we marry each other like we want to, we will both be homeless as well as one of his children? The lack of a piece of paper and a joint home is for survival reasons and no other. If we won the lottery, for instance, we would marry and move in together immediately! No hesitation whatever. We are planning for marriage when of social security age and our "cohabitation or marriage" no longer matters for survival.

It's all just "married" or "not married"?

There is nothing wrong your relationship in the sense that you guys aren't married. After all, this is the dating section.

But part of Marriage Builders means advocating relationships that work well together naturally, which will produce great marriages, and are between two very compatible people. If there are enough problems in the dating stage ("We have had some big arguments, but have never stayed apart longer than a month") then Marriage Builders advocates moving on and dating other people.

It is not about forcing a square peg into a round hole - if the relationship isn't fantastic before marriage, then there is no point continuing. This often doesn't make sense or people refuse to believe it when they think marriage is nothing but a piece of paper and a joint home. Those are what Dr. Harley describes as "renters".

Thanks, yes. My depression is very similar. Comes on quickly where everything is bleak, goes quickly. FINALLY in my life I am learning not to trust it completely and to know the difference between actual discomfort and discomfort brought on by a depressed outlook...

By the way, hope it does not happen to you again.


I agree. That we have been together so long despite the odds is a testament to how strong the love and attraction is. Maybe it's because we have a spiritual basis to which we each return even when separated that helps it survive despite those odds.


I wouldn't say it's a "bad" relationship. Difficult yes - especially at times. But am I correct in thinking that MB also does not advocate leaving a "difficult" marriage if it can be improved towards a "good" marriage?


Ah. Yes yes yes. I believe we are capable and willing to do what it takes, especially considering how hard we have worked to make it work already.


Yes, especially >silent< resentment. That is much of what happened in my former marriage and why XH had A.

Bf is willing to accept help for his illness. Finding it an affording it is the problem, regardless of his "single or married" status.

I have had some help with counseling and was hoping to find a "peer group" here of those in my relationship situation. I would guess there is none from responses so far.


That is absolutely the case for me, unfortunately...


That being said by you, what I have asked for is to talk with those in the same kind of situation who are dealing with the same issues and are still loving - EVEN IF dating principles apply. Neither of us are willing to throw the relationship away, whatever you call it. If there is no one else here in this situation, then I can't have what I requested anyway.

I am the (occasional) depressed person and am getting help. Trying to locate a local support group in the new area I am looking for a home in.

His depression needs to be treated with medication and fortunately it looks like that will be easier in the new area than where we each moved from.

Choosing the Right One to Marry #2 [/quote]

Now this makes sense. We are, roughly, equivalent in energy most of the time. Neither of us want to get out and run every morning. We both do, however, love brief walks in the morning air - especially in secluded forests and meadows.

We differ as to what to watch on tv, but since I don't watch much I will normally be on my computer while he watches his network shows. We both LOVE movies however, both online and in theaters.

Oddly enough, sex is one of the things we both enjoy despite the lower energy than most people have.

The only thing I would do more of is gardening, because at the moment neither of us have a house in which to create one of our own. His home, my home or both would be wonderful. One of my reasons for moving is the dryness of where I lived had not enough >natural< water to sustain a garden without paying for water.

Thank you for your input.
For the questionaire...

The only place I see any problems is #3 - discipline and #9 Finances.

The child in question is his - whom I love - and he (the father) makes the final decisions but asks for my input.

On #9 - we will be taking a financial course together soon as possible after he gets some medication for his chronic illness. So far he likes and agrees with what I have told him from the book I read.

I'm sure it does but MB doesn't generally address medical illnesses that are totally debilitating on occasion. When not struck down by illness, we DO work well together naturally. It took us some time, but we have learned to work things through in spite of illness.

It would be a similar situation to trying to have a major life discussion during a high fever and vomiting. Communication about anything but the pain would be intermittent and hard to understand. In an ill state, he was not able to learn to communicate in spite of great physical pain. More and more he is learning to.

It has been the same with me. I could not separate the effects of the depression from what I really felt. I am learning to.

I am certain our purpose in life at a future time is to be helpful to other couples like ourselves who deal with illnesses that create dysfunction.

Climbing a mountain isn't "easy" but it is worth doing. I realize that most people are not built to work against the odds and ideally take the easy path.
I guess I wanted more of a challenge, as did he.

The love is so strong that it makes all the work worthwhile. It is actually more equal than my former marriage.


The relationship itself IS fantastic. The illnesses interfere with it's fantastic-ness in the same way that homelessness would.

Well people here are telling me I don't have a marriage because there's no piece of paper and a joint home. And though I will allow for their not labeling it a marriage, in my heart and soul (and his) it's about commitment.

Thank you for your input.
You've helped as much as you can...

Again I can see there is no one here in the same type of situation, where you are prevented from marriage for survival reasons and deal with chronic illness.
It's understandable.

Not as many people our age are computer savvy.
and not employed with the time to look
and are in a non-married relationship
and in separate homes
and with chronic illness and depression
and looking for like minded persons on MB.

So I shouldn't be surprised.

Ok. I think I will give up here in this forum. I will continue to look for caretaker and depression support group (or start one) for couples in our situation.

Unless I *start* one, I doubt if anyone in those groups will be familiar with MB principles, unfortunately.

The purpose of being a pathfinder is to make the path easier to find for others on the same path. Some of us have a mountain to climb regardless of the easy way through the valley. I like looking back and seeing how far we've come as well as anticipating how much better the view from up top.

FWIW;
I equate the MB methods as a good backpack with tent, sleeping bag, and cooking gear. If you're going up the mountain anyway, better to take it with you. We are definitely climbing this mountain!

By all means, start a group that uses Marriage Builders principles.

By the way, have you listened to Marriage Builders radio? Dr. Harley mentions depression frequently. He ran a chain of mental health clinics for years and dealt with a lot of it.

People don't have to be in your exact situation to know what Dr. Harley says about your situation and pass his advice along.

Some of us have listened to Dr. Harley for thousands of hours.

Have you ever heard about Dr. Harley's personality test?

I have not dealt with an illness but do agree with your general premise of the other things you mentioned. If one party does not want to deal with the situation any longer (whatever the reason) he/she is free to walk away since there is no marriage.

You mean, like, you traded promise rings, or something? THAT'S NOT MARRIED.
This is waaaay too theatric to not address. You CAN get a house. Your husband and his child will NOT be homeless. You haven't pursued this NEARLY as much as you should have.

What MB have to say about single people having sex before marriage?

In my personal experiences all my relationships that involved sex before marriage did not last. I am aiming for dating for not less than 1 year, short engagement and sex only after marriage.

I was dating a man on disability. We broke up a couple times because his being way to passive, expecting to be taken care of by me..deep inside I was feeling the "man" of the relationship..what goes deeply against my nature and natural make up...red flags all over but we insist in getting engaged and marrying..3 days before we were suppose to get married he had a mini stroke.

We did not get married and decide going our separate ways.

I've learn my lesson. I am not a good fit for passive man, low energy man, at all.