Pegged you back down, BT. Sorry bud, had to be done.

Look, I get it. We went and bought FWW a "work ring." She works with meat, and her original engagement ring went through the meat slicer. Someone got a diamond with their carne asada.

I'd be lying if I didn't admit to thinking "what's the point, you probably would have banged him with this ring on, too."

That's one of those things, though. Don't matter. Can't be fixed, why bother thinking about it?

I didn't go as far as to committing any vows to her with the new ring. My original vows from September 25th, 1999 still stand, they are intact. It was her who broke those vows, not me.

She did go as far once when stating her commitment to recovery, as to say "till death do us part," I flipped, I reminded her it also said for better or worse, forsaking ALL OTHERS. I was so sickened that I got a humongous pain in my chest, had it not been in the wrong location, I would swear it was the beginnings of a heart attack.

So, let me restate again for you; you shouldn't have trusted her in the first place. Not because she isn't worthy, not that she can't be worthy, but we are all capable of failure. Now, as a BH, I am even more capable of failing. Recognizing that, I have myself on constant high alert and broader, stricter boundaries.

I'm one that has always had very... small(?) boundaries, but they were always rigid where they stood. Through this process, I've noticed that I have holes in my defenses now, so I have had to adjust accordingly.


BT, I think the ring and vow thing you did was awesome, but I think you may have been a tad hasty. This AO has demonstrated that.


So here's a question for you; regarding this blowup, and how things were handled, do you think that FWW is owning her manure? She kind of let you get far into your AO/DJ/SD whirlwind (look, I know she did, too, but this is you and I conversing here)?

No? Then dissect, adjust, move forward.

Yes? Then do something strange; thank her. Thank her for allowing you to express your frustration, apologize for how you expressed it.

I nuked twice last week. After the second time, thanking FWW was the only thing I could do. Truthfully, the fact that she is owning her manure, the fact that she stands in the fire she ignited, has been a huge source of admiration and respect.

Does it do the same for you?

THEN TELL HER.


It's a roller coaster, dude. Hang on, and hold her hand. It's a long fall if you get out before the ride comes to a complete stop.

Well, no I don't feel like she is 'owning her manure.' That's my problem.

We eloped, so the ring plus vows were said before a member of each of our families this time. The vows were MB based, symbolizing a different sort of marriage that I want for us.

I am not in anyway 'giving up' or even considering it. I just don't believe in divorce outside adultery, and since I already 'took her back' I will have to wait for her to cheat again before I will be ok with leaving her. And that doesn't mean I get to be a total loser till she finally chooses to leave me either. I took her back and commited to a new marriage so thats pretty much it as far as I am concerned. I can make those vows and buy her another ring because I mean it.

I am no saint though, I can and will make mistakes, just have to keep trying.

These are just things I think about.

Now the money trust thing, that's a real issue... thoughts on that?

Danger.

�

So I am having a problem.� I dont think I acted when I should have, I meant to come on here and write like, last week, but didnt and now wish I had.

�

Last week I was�thinking about a feeling I had been experiencing, like an ominous impending doom sort of feeling.� Like that feeling you get when you feel like someone is following you, but you look back quick and nothing is there.


It came as small signs.

�

Altogether, it felt like I was falling out of love with my wife.

�

I cant figure out specifically what it is, but the signs are there.� JC (Jennifer Chalmers) talked to us a lot a while back, and in March we have a follow up with her, but she had talked about how painful memories related to a PA are often triggered as a result of frustration at some other need being unmet.� You arent getting need X filled, so you think about the PA and all that entailed.

�

This has been happening.� Its ruining a lot of things for me, I cant look at my wife without thinking about what she did.� The more she professes her love and affection for me, the more I have trouble believing it.� I am reminded of something in FILSIL I think where it said, "How do I know my wife is happy?� Because I make her happy."� I think part of this is I dont feel like I am doing a very good job of making my wife happy.� There is obviously stuff I can work on, though I am not always sure of what.


I guess we havent been doing our reviews, maybe that is a root cause.� Not reviewing eachother needs and requesting feedback on how we are meeting them means I am probably not doing as well as I should be at meeting my wifes needs.

�

I guess it also means she probably isnt aware of how she is doing with my needs, or not doing.

�

Now I feel like I should have done this a week ago, because things have blown up.� I havent spoken a word to my wife in 24 hours.� She came to work to have lunch with me, brought me food and everything.� It was all very nice.� Then as I was telling her about my day, she interrupted me.� I got upset, and she said, "I thought you were done with the sentence."� Since I was actually in the middle of a sentence, I got even more upset, since it appeared not only did she interrupt me, but wasnt listening either.� She asked what I wanted, so I stated that I wanted an apology.� She apologized for being in pain and mentioning it while I was talking.� To me this is not an apology.� Its an excuse preceded by "I'm sorry," so I got even more upset.� It ruined my appetite.� She dropped me off back at work after going to get ice cream.� I was so upset I didnt even get any, didnt eat any, didnt want any, felt like I was going to to throw up.� That night I got home and she didnt say a word to me, and I didnt say anything back.� I went to the gym after dinner and got back around 9:45pm.� I took a shower, folded her clothes and made the bed and then went to sleep on the couch.� She must have come got me at night because I woke up in bed.

�

Not a word again this morning.� I leave�a note for her summing up why I am upset.� Telling her that I feel like she doesnt care what I think about things or how I feel.� That I am upset about something, told her, and her response was, "Its not a big deal, get over it" trivializing me and my response.� I told her if her goal is to make withdrawals she is doing a good job.

�

She responded via email today that "typical BT" everything is about him, told me I am always selfish, that I interrupt her all the time and she doesnt make a big deal out of it.� I emailed her back.

�

I explained again what I was upset about.� She said I expect too much, but all I wanted was an an apology, an acknowledgement.� That she has been professing her love and commitment for months, and yet its not worth a simple "I am sorry."� She had called me an hypocrite for interrupting her all the time, and I said that that doesnt make it ok. I said that suffering in silence is not an admirable quality.� Me doing something wrong doesnt mean I cant ask her not do it to me, just like she can still ask me not to do something wrong even if she has done it.� That wrong is wrong.� I refrained from actually mentioning that "You can still ask me not to be a cheater, even though you are one."� I said that insanity is doing the same thing expecting something different, if she needs something, and what she is doing isnt working to get it, get a new plan.� If she cant come up with one, and doesnt want to talk to me, talk to someone.� She had said she felt "out of love" with me, and I said you let it happen again?� You know the signs, you know the things to do, you know where you can go to ask for help or advice or another perspective, and instead you just sat there and waited till you felt out of love before saying anything?

�

I am very frustrated.� I still feel like I did ALL the work to bring us back from the PA.� I still feel like I have to be the one that makes all the effort to fix things when we have a fight.� That if I dont "offer peace" first, she will just let it drag on.� I am so tired of fighting.� She responded that she will not come on this site because people just make her more frustrated and bring up more things to be PO'd at me for.� That she feels our marriage is crumbling where everyone can just point and laugh, "especially" when I broadcast it on "a forum."� She says she will talk to Jennifer and thats it.

�

Our son turned 2 last Saturday.� We had another fight that day.� I dont know what it was about, but I was, in a civil tone, questioning her about the dispute, and she interrupted me to talk to our son about something else, ignoring me completely.� I about lost it.� I left the room.� I tried to get a handle on myself.� She made a flippant remark about how I'm going to ruin his Birthday since I cant control myself.� I put my coat on and left the house and like an idiot "said" something to her via text messege along the lines of "cant control myself?� I didnt call you�all the stuff I wanted to like" ....... lots of expletives and just generally tore her apart in the most vicious way my rather imaginative mind and expansive vocabulary would allow, as all the things I "didnt" say.� I stopped short of bringing up her PA, but that doesnt make it any less terrible.

�

I think the "someone sneaking up on me" feeling was all this anger and frustration that has been building.� Or maybe its frustration, followed by anger.� However, rather than share it or explode or something, it has just been there destroying everything.

�

Now we havent spoken to eachother in 24 hours, and while I want our marriage to be happy and successful and want our son to have a happy loving family, I find I dont really want to talk to MrsBT.� I find that at this moment I am tired of holding out the olive branch.� Usually if I upset her, I have to come back and grovel and apologize for an indefinate period before she will relent the ignoring cold shoulder and allow the possibility of�a reconciliation.� My arm is tired from holding that branch.� I am having trouble justifying the energy I put into "fixing" things.


This scares the crap out of me.� I dont like this feeling at all, and I am having trouble forcing mysefl to think productively and not just be withdrawn and cold.

�

It seems I am somewhere between Conflict and Withdrawal.� I "want" to be in Conflict because I know that at least then it means you still CARE, but I dont.

�

I guess I dont even know what I want to gain by writing/posting this.� Sometimes just posting it and reading it a few times helps me figure out what I want to do.� Maybe someone has some insight.� I dont know...

�

I feel tired.

BT,

I want to think on this some and get back to you. You so much remind me of my BH that I think I can help. I'm not sure how to answer this yet but I did want to say that I had just been thinking about you and wondering about your situation. As much as I am glad you are still here, I am sorry that your long awaited "update" isn't more positive.

BT, my good man! It's great to hear from you!

You'll be pleased to know that what you and your FWW are going through is very normal at this stage of recovery.

Think about it: both of you have been tip-toeing around, trying not to break this fragile state of recovery that you've been in. You've worked hard to meet needs, you've deposited into your love banks every chance you get, the two of you are recharting your M with hopes for nothing short of great success for your future together.

But something has to give, eventually. You can't stay in a honeymoon state forever - that's unrealistic. Your Takers will eventually pop up their heads and say "Okay, my turn."

And that's what appears to be happening right now. I know - H and I did the same thing.

May I use your words against you?

Have you told your W:


Look at it like this: this business of recovering from an affair is a long-term business. There really is no finish line. (That probably makes you feel even MORE tired, sorry!)

Can the two of you get some time alone, maybe a short weekend trip? Get out of the house and go somewhere - it doesn't have to be anything big. Get a hotel room in the next town, one with a swimming pool. Go out to dinner and then take a swim when you get back. Rent a movie in your room. Have breakfast sent up.

While you're doing all that, can you approach her with your honest feelings? I suspect she's holding things in as well.

Realize that your feelings of doom are fleeting (I'm familiar with them) and work with your wife when you're feeling those.

Ouch. Thank you marital. I am going to try share this perspective with MrsBT, even if she doesn't want to come on here, maybe she won't mind me bringing something up.

Thanks for 2x4.

Sunnydaze, excited to see what you come out with, FWW perspectives are always helpful.

Thanks guys.

((Trying to find my Woody wind up string on my back so I can pull it...))

Don't have time now but I do have this to say.

FWW have takers too. I know I am left with feeling bad about that so I guess sometimes I try to quell it and maybe wait too long. The results are not good.

You are justified in your anger but that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee.

MB's advice is very helpful...simple but difficult.

Maybe ask you wife to find the string for you and help you pull it.

Dude, let me tell you; November and the early part of December was hell.

I kept nuking, even when things seemed to be going well. Kept getting that sinking feeling, started to swirl, and BOOM!

The thing that keeps you afloat is this; it's going to happen.

You are learning to talk a new talk, and walk a new walk. Every once in a while, you are going fall off the line, and you are going to slam your fists down, and say f(*& it!

It's what you do after that, that counts. Are you going to take your toys and walk away, or are you going back to the mat, and back at it?

Beware extinction burst! It's that part of you that says; "Forget it, it's not worth it!"

It's crept up on me. It hit me like a ray of light one day driving home from school; "I could walk, right now and be happy!"

No. That's a fool's errand, and not my goal, nor my commitment.

Clean up the mess, and get back in the fight.

ENQ refresher time again, LBQ refresher time. 20+ hours UA EACH WEEK until things even out! NO TV! REAL UA TIME!

So does that 'nuking even when things are fine' mad under the surface thing ever go away. Cuz its still there right now.

But that's just it. Things aren't fine!

Touche...

I'll say that it's been almost 2 months without a meltdown.

Don't know if that's "gone away" but I'll take what I get, you know?

@BT -

Was rereading Neak's Story and @still seeking had this to say:

Conflict can be a good sign. Now how do you go from Conflict to Intimacy?

I would recommend that you not go to Withdrawal. Withdrawal is a bad place.

BT; are "typical BT, old BT, and/or get over it" statements LBs to you?

For me, the first two are DJ statements, and the second is an SD wrapped in a DJ.

If they aren't, you know. If they are, you have to communicate that.

You need to curb your AOs, but you must practice RH with "I would love it if/I love it when" statements.

@HHH - yes and agree
@the quote from Neaks thread, that IS something we need to do.

Thanks all!!

So it is October 2012, and the last post on here was from almost February 2011.

Just wanted to throw a quick update if anyone for whatever reason was reading this...

I would consider us a success story. We did I think 6 months of phone coaching sessions with Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, and we got to work. We still have lots to do because we are people that have a lot of personal stuff that we need to get better at as well, while being parents and providers and life at the same time.

But, we are working it, and we are making it. We are happy and value our marriage. I havent been getting on here because of numerous other things I have committed myself too, but I still have my log in info and am still eternally grateful to people like HHH and MelodyLane and others that supported me through this lowest of absolutely lowest points in my life.

Take care MB, keep on helping! You are much appreciated!

(updated my sig)

Bravo to you, BTintrouble!!! You deserve all the happiness in the world.

Awesome, bud!


Glad to hear progress is... progressing!


Had worried about you a bit since it's been so long, yet - sometimes success is getting on your own two feet, ain't it?

BT! I was just thinking about you this past week, and hoping that all was well. Thanks for the update!

Well that's funny, I was as well.

BT, I wasn't around when your saga went down, but read your thread not long after I got here. I gotta tell you, the way you handled this when the you know what hit the fan is beyond admirable. I must have read the exposure part of your thread 5-6 times. Glad you posted again so that hopefully some other BHs can gain some strength from what you were able to accomplish at only 25 years of age. Lot's of BHs could learn a thing or two from you and this thread.

Well done, and glad to hear things are going well for you and your FWW!