We are talking $100,000 plus debt here (not just the one lumber yard but all total debts)

If you lose goods, then they can be replaced, but you can't lose UA time. That isn't realistic. You would be losing the one valuable asset you both have, the marriage and divorce costs would be added on top.

All the more reason to have a realistic long term plan and not drop UA time due to a panicking short term plan.

POJA a plan that will work long term and see you emerge as a team. That will include UA time

All you can do is pledge to pay the money back as well as you can within realistic time scales.

Will a judge order the money repaid in a flash when you don't have it? Or accept a repayment plan? Common sense would say you can't give what you don't have.

Do you think a judge will take away a livelihood that will see a debt repaid? Who will that help?

If he loses a piss poor job, and gets out of debt in the process, is that such a tragedy?



Where would he stay? Can't you stay with him?

I would love to travel with him. The cost of a room would be a bit much to handle financaly right now. The biggest reason i cant go w/ him is I have a full time job

Thank you indiegirl,

You have reinforced what I already thought was the answer. Fight for our marriage first.

It is a struggle (big LB) for me to not have fincancial support but we need to work together and we can pull thru.

Have you seen this?
Financial Support Inventory

Yes, BrainHurts, I have looked at that a few times. Have not printed it out or filled it out. I have a budget in place (my income) for all household, groceries, garbage pickup, cell phone, home phone/internet. We are fortunate are kids are grown, so no expences there. I know Dr Harley would NOT recommend me keeping my income in a seperate account. But seriously H's checking account ($1000 of dollars going thru it) would "swallow up" my income. Maybe when its a sole proprietor business it is OK to have seperate accounts?

I have been reading many forums over the last several days. One thing that has really stood out is to have "a plan". I don't mean a payment plan that was discussed a few post back. I am talking about a MB plan for recovery. I have some questions regaurding this "plan".

Repeating some facts that have already been mentioned:

A was 18 years ago. Exposure was to many (mostly females in both our families know - not too many males know) but not to all. I was the one to expose not my H. Due to the time frame is this still necessary?

Fast forward to Sept 2012. Discovered H was watching porn and "stuff" on internet. Exposure only to sons and their wives and my sister and her husband. Done by me for moral support. Does this need to be exposed to all at this time? No A to hinder with this exposure.

We understand about Needs, Love Bank and Love Busters (a work in progress). I just don't understand (can't wrap my head around) POJA. I have printed off basic consept #9 and #10 for us to read tonight. Anyone have any insight for us?

You should expose the affair to all people of relevance even if it was a long time ago. That is a consequence, honesty and a necessity.

What don't you understand about POJA? You both have to sign off on the decision, a bit like two rowers in a boat needing to choose the same direction to row successfully. The decision should benefit you both.

This is a great subject for learning POJA on.

Do you feel that your husband watching porn is a great idea? When you think about him doing it, does it make you feel glad, and eager for him to do it? Do you hope he does it again and again?

If not, then you don't feel enthusiastic,

and if you and your husband want to have a good marriage, he will have to STOP doing this, because you don't feel enthusiastic about it. The POJA rule is:


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3500_policy.html

Now, if your husband feels that this leaves a need unfulfilled for him, you have to negotiate an alternative that you are both enthusiastic about. A great alternative to porn, that I suggest, is a healthy and active sex life.

Of course, there are a lot of things that have to happen in order to have a healthy and active sex life.

It sounds like there are a lot of sexual issues in your marriage. I take it that you don't feel enthusiastic about sex with your husband. This is usually the case when a wife is not in love with her husband, and most wives would feel just like you given things like porn use in the marriage, etc.

So, if your husband would like to restore your enthusiasm for sex, he will need to make some changes. He will need to eliminate some negative things, like porn use. And he will need to add some positive things, like meeting your emotional needs.

Here are some articles by Dr. Harley that are probably helpful for your situation. Do you feel like doing some reading? These may help you put the pieces together and figure out how this program can make you happy for both you and your husband:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

Excerpt:

Another good article:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

I have a question for you about your plan:

At this point, are you making the plans, or are you and your husband making plans together? In other words, is he involved in this, yet?

One of the methods Dr. Harley recommends is going shopping for groceries together to figure out how to work the Policy of Joint Agreement. Unless you are both enthusiastic about something, it doesn't go in the cart. And if you end up in an argument, you put everything back and try again another day.

That will teach you the basics of fair negotiation as long as you avoid disrespect, demands, and anger in your shopping.

OK I would say we did expose to relevent poeple. I thought at the time that OWH knew about the relationship. Not so sure now...because of things I have read in MB forum about WS lieing bout such things. But her and her then husband are divorced. So pointless I think. Is a NC leter neccessary at this point?

H has said he will no longer watch porn. He realizes how hurtful it was for me to discover it. I was more upset about him hiding it from me. I actually told him I would be willing to watch with him. Until I read Dr Harley's info about it (contrast effect). My idea of watching it with him CHANGED!

He has agreed to not watch again and I have things in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. But...from the stand point of POJA this will be an interesting starting POJA conversation. I am anxious to try this situation out. H may already be in the enthusiastic mode to not watch (cause of the hurt it caused)!

I want to mention at this time a conversation we had recently. H has kinda strainge ideas about porn. Maybe someone who has been in this situation will have some enlightment?? H thinks that porn (among other things like books etc) will teach us ways to enjoy sex more. He likened it to China puting up a wall to protect their knowledge. Years later they were farther behind because of no outside connections. Hope I explained this the way i understood him. I told him that a married couple SHOULD have walls up to keep others out. I have ordered the book Womans Orgasm that Dr Harley recomends.

I think we have had a great sex life (not always but sometimes). I think we experiment a lot. I know he would like me to initiate more. He thinks I am sexually repressed. That may have been one reason for H looking at porn.

Porn does not create a great sex life. It does not exhibit helpful techniques to show a man and woman how to please each other. Porn does not show a man how to LOVE his wife, without which great sex doesn't exist. Porn is an offense to most women, who know intuitively that they do not want to be compared some pretty 18-year-old girl selected specifically for her sexual charms.

My H used to enjoy porn, but it certainly didn't help our sex life. Nor did he learn what to do to make sex great. Over time, porn made our SF worse. The foundation of great sex in marriage is to be emotionally bonded to--in love with--each other.

I've heard Dr. Harley explain that (often) when a man wants his wife to initiate sex, it's because he won't get turned down. Not saying that's what's going on in your marriage, but it does indicate to a man that the woman is open to SF at that moment. Most men can go for SF at any time; we women often need a bit more to get going.

Once a couple is in love and a woman feels bonded emotionally to her man, sex is usually not a problem. So he would need to make sure he is meeting your top emotional needs and deposit lots of love units into your love bank. AND avoid all love busters, which kills the desire in a woman.

I have that book you mention, and it's very helpful, despite its age (published in 1970.) Between Woman's Orgasm and the MB materials on SF, we have learned a lot about SF in our long marriage. And we thought we had a pretty good SF life before MB. But it became even better afterward.

Another MB principle is to make specific dates for SF two or three times per week. My H can look forward to those particular times and we can better prepare ourselves and make the times happen.

I love this one: Harley says that when one person has the higher need for SF, then that person must learn to make it very enjoyable for the one who doesn't need it as much. This goes for all the ENs. But for SF, when we read that chapter and listened to the audio, I turned to my H and remarked with a wink, "Sounds like SF is all about ME, huh?" But really, that's the way it works out. H makes sure I enjoy each and every time, and that way he does, too.

By the way, telling you that you are "sexually repressed" sounds like a DJ to me. Your H should be saying "Honey, I would love it if you would ...." And then you would negotiate. And you would NOT do something if you were not enthusiastic about it.