My WH has asked for help. In a way. I suppose. Been dark for awhile now... I am asking all of you for help now. I want him to read the stories of FWH's who came out of the fog and who can explain the fog and who can explain how NC is a MUST or there will be no recovery.

Baby steps right now. But he's asking.. they did break up, I confirmed this. They are also still in contact, which I also confirm and he does not deny. He's doing a lot of the "right" things but just not enough. He ended it with her. He did this as a result of Plan B. He has wayward friends but they do not see the merit it NC. So he is questioning why it's so necessary. yes, RED FLAG I know.. still keeping distance...

He is willing to read so if you have any links to other WH stories and how they recovered their marriage after the fog I'd love to pass it on to him. Well... to our in between person to pass on lol...

He does not have internet and wouldn't even know where to begin searching and I do not want him to find this board just yet since I am still doing the plans...

I printed out a lot of information but it's all "theory" and knowing him he will want to see how it works in "real life" and not in a book... So I'd like to include at least one FWH story so he can see he is not alone and his "love" is not special and will not beat the statistics...

I don't see him asking for help. I see him still sitting on his [censored] & letting you do all the work. If he gave a damn, he'd be here asking me, himself. I've walked in his shoes. I could tell him stuff that would do him some good. But he's not willing to put in the effort, it seems. You've heard the saying: "Action talks... bull**** walks" ...
He can prove me wrong, but I don't see it yet.

If he's still in contact with her, then at best, he's like a guy who fell into a river, and who has climbed up & is standing on a slippery, floating log. He may be technically dry for the moment, but there's a high probability that he's not going to stay dry for long.

Well, ain't that somethin': His wayward friends. That's like a conversation between the two dumbest kids in 7th-grade math class, where one dumb kid asks the other dumb kid to teach him about quantum physics. If you take a bunch of people, none of whom has a single clue, and you put them all together, it still doesn't add up to any of them having a clue.

Well, he can read where my wife explained how the pain of being cheated on seems at least as bad as the pain of seeing a child die: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2461619&page=2.
He can read the thread of a poster called HerPapaBear: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...n=146722&Number=1964197#Post1964197.

But none of it's gonna work until he stops thinking he's the smartest guy in the room & that his own thinking is better than that of other people. If he were so damned smart, his own thinking wouldn't have gotten him into an affair. If he were so damned smart, he wouldn't still be in any contact whatsoever with the affair-partner.

About halfway through my affair, before it had gone all the way physical, my wife voiced a tiny suspicion. But I denied that anything wrong was going on. At the same time, I knew it was wrong, and I resolved to end it. I told the other woman we had to stop this thing from where it was heading, and that we needed to keep it at "just friends." Well, I found out the hard way that that doesn't work. I resumed taking her calls. I was hooked on the free attention & flattery & affirmation, and soon more, without any of the real-life responsibilities that come with a real-life, non-secret relationship; and soon the affair was back on, worse than before. And your husband is hooked, too, or else it would be no big deal at all for him to go along with your wishes & cease all contact with her. The very fact that he resists this step is proof that he's hooked. The brain-chemistry impact of the infatuation on which an affair is based is the same as the brain-chemistry impact for a crack addict when they're craving a hit of cocaine. He needs to go through the process of withdrawal, and that requires that there be no contact.

Trying to end an affair while staying in contact with the affair-partner is like a drunk trying to get sober while carrying a whiskey-flask around in his pocket.

Besides which, the simple fact that his being in contact with her bothers YOU, ought to be reason enough for him. If he were serious about recovering your marriage & making it better than before the affair, then he would be asking himself "What else can I be doing to help my wife feel emotionally-safe with me?" But instead, he seems to be asking himself, "How little can I get away with changing the way I've been doing things?"

Loki, my friend, you are taking the wrong approach. This is not about convincing or persuading a falling down drunk to stop drinking, this is about setting boundaries for yourself. You should stay in Plan B until your husband ends his affair. If he doesnt' end his affair inside of 2 years, then you should divorce him. What you should not do is stay in contact with him until he ends all contact and commmits to recovery.

Until he meets those conditions, there is nothing to be done here. You cannot negotiate with a falling down drink [which is what a fogged out wayward IS] so there is no reason to try. The best thing you can do is remove yourself from his circle of abuse.

You are wasting your time. Tell him he either ends contact for life with the OW or you will not be in touch with him. You should be in PLAN B, Loki.

What Mel said.
If they're still in contact, then it ain't over, & don't you believe otherwise. Doesn't matter what WH says.

It matters no a whit what happened in some other couple's marriage, kiddo. The only thing that matters in your marriage is the commitment to standards and boundaries to correct the failures in your marriage.

I'M NOT TALKING TO HIM, LOKI, BUT TO YOU.

You cannot "nice" him back to the marriage. You cannot do the work for him. You are setting yourself up for a disaster, because once you start doing the work he, by rights, should be doing, and investing your sweat and tears in that effort, the inevitable corruption will take place between your "sunk cost" and the desired results, to wit: "Well, I've already done so much, maybe I'll take a risk and not....."

The result will be an ongoing false recovery, your being gaslighted, and "a death of a thousand cuts"!

Assuming you can read and comprehend the plans here, STOP OVERTHINKING THE PROCESS. You cannot play both roles. You just do what the plans here say to do, and you will enable your best chance to recover.

Here.
Read my lips: NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT

Tell him this is how it works if he wants to have any contact with you:

He ends his affair and NEVER EVER has contact with the OW again. He commits to the principles of this program. He does not bother you again until that happens!

loki, say no to fogbabble, my friend! Your posts are fogbabble. Just stick to Plan B and he either complies or he hits the road.

Loki, can you think of any better way to drive this point home to him, to make it real to him, than for you to have nothing else to do with him unless he meets the condition of ceasing contact?

Nothing we can tell you to print off will be as effective as your own steadfastness on this point. You want him to get it? Then don't ask him to read about it. Make him experience it. Make him live it. No contact -- or else, no recovery.

Has he ended the affair? Once he's ended the affair and has shown you that he is solidly on board with recovery he'll get plenty of support.

Short of that - he's playing you and buying time.

So, really, any attempt to repair you marriage means nothing. He's still with the OW if they're in contact.

Loki, all posters here are telling you the truth...

HE HAS NOT ENDED THE AFFAIR IF THERE IS STILL CONTACT.

You are putting yourself in the line of fire for a horribly destructive False Recovery if you believe otherwise. I know. I believed my WH's A ended, and that he would be in "business-only contact" until his new job could start. Daily, he gave me reports of their contact, and affirmed it remained business-only. SEVEN MONTHS later, even after we moved across the continent, I discovered the "business-only" lasted all of 4 days. It was nearly unrecoverable at that point. WH now admits he would never have broken it off on his own. By not insisting on total NC at D-Day 1, I actually enabled my WH's affair for 7 more months.

I know you WANT to believe him. But you are doing yourself and him no favours. Follow the program. Stay in Plan B, until he goes NC... You can do this!