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Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
"My H just doesn't understand boo-hoo, the doctor says I'm bi-polar, and I just can't help myself, !"

Yeah do some reaserch on bi-polar, many times it is misdiagnosed, and is not what they say it is.

It is a real condition I agree, but many times it is the thoughts we allow, instead of what is "out of our control"

She may have it, and it's up to you guys to decide what you will allow to determine your behavior, but what's in your thought life is in your control.

Sneaking around and living in fantasyland is not bi-polar, it is hiding from what you know is wrong, and if you know it's wrong, you gotta kick those thoughts to the curb.

I will go out on a limb and believe you guys can recover from this, and it's not uncontrollable mental illness that is the culprit

It's gutsy commitment to your marriage she needs

Or maybe plan B, or a D, not games

Tex,

Just to piggyback off of this post... Something occurred to me last year in regards to this mental health thing.. And it's not on the WS' side, it's on the BS side... Often times we just don't want to really believe that our spouse could be so cruel, callous and just outright low as to do something like this. Sometimes we want it to be something explainable, something we can wrap our heads around... but that's the nature of sin. it's illogical and makes no sense at all. We can't fathom it, even though we acknowledge and say we believe the truth. I did it for a long time. my W never claimed to have had a mental breakdown, bipolar, add, possessed by a demon or anything of the sort. Me however... I considered the possibility of each of them, because i just didn't want to believe it. You've looked for a lot of other answers from contact disorders, bipolar and who knows what else. I think the truth is, her sin nature got the better of her and she fell.

Now to push on to the real work...

CV


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Yes sin is present in human beings, but we allow it to riegn, instead of kicking that to the curb also

In my FR with my now late wife, she said all she needed was to get involved in church, and though that didn't jive with me I still bought it hook line and sinker.

Now am I to believe that God wanted her to fall into sin and die?

See I don't believe that for a second

Choices, and thier consequences, are what we all have to deal with, all our life, and for our life too

Oh we went full on and full speed ahead with the church, and she still was an addict and now had another excuse she could blame.

It really is no mystery, they were bad because it was fun, but didn't understand the heavy consequences that they would have to bear because of thier actions.

The wages of sin are death, both spiritually and physically, and we live because of Grace. I am not arguing that at all
But actions speak louder than words

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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
I will not read her thread and told her she should not read mine. I told her I was ready to end this. She says she thought we were getting better. Her Bi-polar condition makes it difficult to know day by day.
'


TTS, you might give her a chance to get on board, offer the MB program. But if she doesn't get on board, it is Plan B time. You are not supposed to be in the SAME POSITION 18 months after the affair. All that is happening is that you are headed to affair #3.

Do you know the divorce law in your state? Is your wife self supporting?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
She has created a user name and will be posting soon. She says the screen shot was old and is the last thing left. The game is deleted and OM has changed his number ( my intel not hers ).

My hope is she will connect with a FWW who can help her out of the fog that lingers.

That is a pipe dream. Sending a fogged out wayward to this board will be a disaster. She will just get run off and you will lose this place as a resource.

IT is not up to us to get your wife out of the fog, that is your job. No one here can do that for you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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This bipolar is too often a crutch for bad behavior excuses. There are two major types
The kind my wife had which had its highs and lows but is manageable with support groups and check ins with a doc.
Then you have the kind like my neighbor who has no control over reality and without medication goes for days without sleeping and eating and then decided on a whim to move to Africa like she did last week.


Husband (me) 39
Wife 36
Daughter 21
Daughter 19
Son 14
Daughter 10
Son 8 (autistic)

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So you're recommending she not join for advice and support? She feels like no one cares, that there is no hope. Won't other waywards be there to guild her through the steps...?? crazy


Me (BH): 42
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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
So you're recommending she not join for advice and support? She feels like no one cares, that there is no hope. Won't other waywards be there to guild her through the steps...?? crazy

She has had 18 months to go through the steps and has not done that. It does not take a wayward to show her the steps. All she has to do is read Surviving an Affair and the steps are right there.

But...she has not done that in 18 months. WHY??


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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TTS, no one here can break her fog EXCEPT you and her. You are the only person who can motivate her to go through these steps because you are the only person who has leverage. If you are not serious, then why should she be serious?

If your fogged out wife comes here, she is going to be facing a 2x4 or two, just like other fogged out individuals. Is she prepared for that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
Won't other waywards be there to guild her through the steps...?? crazy

The MB program is not exclusive to waywards. Dr Harley is not a wayward; I am not a wayward, many others here are not waywards but they fully understand the MB program.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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t/j alert:
Hey, CV! Happy Birthday, friend! I hope it was a great one!
end t/j


D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!

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Thanks CV.

Hope you had a great day!!

HappyBirthday


Me (BH): 42
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TTS, I don't want to discourage you from bringing her here if you think it will help, but that can't be used to avoid going into Plan B if she refuses to commit to recovery. If she is willing to recover your marriage now and go through these steps, by all means bring her here and we will be glad to help!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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TTS, if you want to bring your wife here we are certainly willing to talk to her, and would welcome the opportunity. I do agree with MelodyLane: she is likely to get 2x4s here. That may or may not really help.

Something you might want to consider as an alternative (or supplement): listen to Dr. Harley's radio show together, daily, and discuss it with each other. It's free, buddy.

But something else to point out: as MelodyLane says, in a very real way, it is your job to defog your wife. You do that with REAL exposure, first and foremost. You also do that by holding her accountable in a plan of no contact: personally verifying that she has no contact with an affair partner, nor with mementos of an affair partner. And you also do that by making love bank deposits, which for her is going to be primarily by conversation, probably primarily by talking to her about the problems she is facing in life, and those problems are very likely to involve you, so they may be difficult to talk about, but you have to learn to do it.

That's three components to defogging:
* exposure: YOU have to tell your family, her family, your children, and anyone else who matters in her life (good friends, church, job if the affair happened on the job) the facts of what happened. It's not enough to just say that "they know."
* no contact: it is her job to keep no contact, but it is your job to verify that it is happening. Many a man has fought a losing battle to "recover" with his wife when she wasn't really recovering because she was still remembering OM on Facebook, with pictures, or with occasional emails or whatever.
* love bank deposits: have real conversations about what matters to HER. Follow Dr. Harley's friends and enemies of good conversation. You should know what those are by now, and you should review them regularly.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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One last little note: I looked back through your thread and saw comments about your wife being a member (or formerly being a member) of the Church of Christ. Prisca and I are members of the Church of Christ, so maybe we might be able to share some perspective with your wife. I don't know. I always take note of it, anyway.

But about that comment, at the time you said something to the effect about how that church membership caused her to hang onto guilt, or something like that. This is actually a form of disrespectful judgment toward your wife, it's the same kind of disrespectful judgment as when somebody psychoanalyzes their mate. Nobody wants to hear how their childhood causes them problems in adulthood and the defects it causes in them. You're essentially saying "Your problem is you hang on to guilt. You shouldn't be that way." You are judging her feelings, and then further blaming her church for causing those feelings.

Maybe you haven't said that to her straight out, in which case you haven't really made a disrespectful judgment. Yet in that post you were still dismissing her feelings. And you were missing the boat of Dr. Harley's plan - when followed, Dr. Harley's plan changes feelings, including feelings of guilt. There's nothing in Dr. Harley's plan about needing to let go of guilt first or anything like that. Trying to psychoanalyze why someone isn't following the plan is actually disrespectful.

That was an older post, so hopefully that's all in the past and you're not thinking like that. Take your wife's feelings as they are, even if you think she would be better served by having different feelings. We men can kick a lot of holes in the love bank by wishing our wives felt differently. I find that a better perspective is to view myself as my wife's support system as she goes through her problems in life, including all of the feelings that arise in her as she faces life.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
She will just get run off and you will lose this place as a resource.

Consider that one thing we can do as a resource is to motivate you to keep following Dr. Harley's plans even when you don't feel like it.

Consider that if you follow Dr. Harley's plans, it will affect how she feels, for the better. The better job you do following the plans, the better she will feel. And the more motivated she will be to do the things that make your marriage happy for you.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
She feels like no one cares, that there is no hope.

It is your job to support her in her feelings.

Why does she feel like you do not care?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
TTS, have you presented the MB program to your wife? Have you stopped traveling?

I may have missed it, but I can't find anywhere where you answered these two questions. The best poster on Marriage Builders, the one most knowledgeable about Marriage Builders concepts, asked you questions, and you ignored them? Didn't think they were important? Too busy talking and not listening? Or did I just miss the answers?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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If you are a man in a marriage that is JUST NOT MAKING IT, you owe it to yourself to listen to Marriage Builders radio, daily. Seriously, you need the coaching that Dr. Harley hands out for free, every day. Not just an every once in awhile post on the board when you feel down.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by TexasTwoStep
Thanks CV.

Hope you had a great day!!

HappyBirthday

Thanks!


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
TTS, no one here can break her fog EXCEPT you and her. You are the only person who can motivate her to go through these steps because you are the only person who has leverage. If you are not serious, then why should she be serious?

It is my thinking that there is a LOT more you need to be doing. You have been laying down on the job. I made three key suggestions in a post a few minutes ago. But, seriously, you need to sit down every day and let Dr. Harley explain his own program to you, for free. You need to become an expert in it. You have a sophisticated and complicated situation, and you need to start learning to USE the tools to make your situation better. Even when things start looking better, you cannot afford to rest easy; you need to pursue an education and learn how to keep your marriage tuned like a fine motor.

As the husband, a lot of this is up to you. That is true for betrayed husbands, wayward husbands, and husbands in marriages that were never touched by infidelity.

Do not tell us that you need our help but that you are unwilling to accept a free hour of counseling every day from Dr. Harley. Start listening to that radio show.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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